Pro-Gun, Anti-NRA

[DirtTime]

It is not about freedom of speech. It is not about me "picking a fight". I already said it was a mistake for me to call out the NRA on its non-lead information. It caused a reaction, but that reaction happens often whether or not I am involved.

 

How do we make others, especially new hunters feel welcome? If every effort to be inclusive ends up ruined by strong views expressed in insulting ways, how can we expect new hunters - a new type of hunter - to feel welcome? Will they join with us? Will they choose to understand the political issues?

 

 

I have asked that. It worked out well for me.............All opinions are welcome, as long as you agree with the top posters and staff favorites........

 

It doesn't matter what you/me/anyone posts. 70% ( estimated ) of the threads turn into font wars. Like I said, it is what it is. You either conform, or get flamed.

 

As for the NRA, what the thread should have been about?

Join or don't. Personal preference. Just like any group, it has it's good and it's bad.

[covert]

Just seems to me that the NRA does things to turn off many gun owners with the people they support politically or have at their rallies, I mean Ted Nugent, really?? and they support politicians who other people, many gun owners could never get behind, politicians who's right wing agenda includes stomping on women's rights or trying to crush unions etc, sorry for getting too political but that's what this is about, I think the NRA would have a lot more power and clout if they dumped the all or nothing stance and distanced themselves from some of the far right wing politicians they have become saddled with.

 

The NRA has stated time and time again that they are a one issue organization.  That is why they were able to endorse candidates like Harry Reid (who is FAR from "right wing") for Senate because based on their criteria, on their one issue, he was an acceptable candidate.  I can't imagine why anyone would be the slightest bit interested in where the National RIFLE Association stands on abortion, gay marriage or Unions so why would they consider them in endorsing (or not) a particular candidate? 

[Mr VJP]

Let's get one thing straight.  All new hunters are welcome.  

 

But if a newbie expects to come into the fold and start telling others how things have to change, how things we have been doing for years are wrong, how your ammo is wrong and your rifle makes you look like a terrorist, how handguns are wrong, how the NRA is bad and how you must conform, concede, co-operate and compromise because they demand it and are looking to enforce it, they are not going to be welcome anymore.

 

I have seen too much concession over the decades to let it happen anymore.  Enough is enough.  If you have problems with the way hunting happens today, don't hunt, or do your thing your way without telling others how to do it.  If you expect to join a large fraternity of people that have been doing things their way for decades, don't expect to enter, demand fundamental change and take over because you think they're wrong.

 

New hunters can voice their opinions all they like, but they better not puss out and cry like a child about being bullied when they bring justifiable wrath on themselves  with their "I'm right and you're not" attitude.  You will not get respect because you demand it.  You need to earn it.  That's hard to do if you're not savvy.  It's easier to earn contempt, which can never be returned.

 

Case in point:  Years ago in this land, there was another large fraternity of people who were willing to compromise, concede and trust the newbies and the changes they wanted imposed by the government.  Everything they did was unacceptable too.  Today they have nothing and regret not fighting from the beginning.  They referred to themselves as the Indigenous People of Turtle Island.  Today we call them Native Americans.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Mr VJP

[WNYBuckHunter]

Culver -

 

It is not the site. It is a good site. I don't mind arguing as you might have noticed. However, the problem here is issues are getting conflated. Then, aggressive, bullying people cause others to back down or hide. A new site isn't needed. I really like this one.

 

I've been a moderator for several discussion groups. When someone is out of line, the moderator can put them on "moderated" status. When they are in this mode, their posts don't go up until a moderator has read and approved each one. Usually just the threat of being moderated is enough to keep people civil and on-topic.

 

Keeping things civil is the job of the moderators.

 

Actually, our job is to make sure the members follow the TOS of the site, which everyone agrees to upon joining. We dont discriminate in who gets their posts edited, deleted. If they break the rules over and over, they get suspended or banned. Ive actually had to suspend a few people that I really like on here, and I didnt even send them a PM to say "sorry, I didnt really want to suspend you but you broke the rules". Ive been called Hitler, a bully, a bad moderator, etc all because I have to enforce the rules, sometimes on people that disagree with me. Thats probably where most of the butt hurt comes from. Oh, and Ive been told im not allowed to participate on several occasions lol.

 

Our job is not to tell people they can or cannot argue their point or opinion. We dont want to be babysitters. The site owner does not want it censored with the exception of cursing or rule breaking, and if a thread gets out of hand, we shut it dopwn. This topic keeps coming up, and it really boils dow to the point of, if you dont like the site, feel free to go elsewhere. We have been told for years that the site is on the verge of failure. Guess what? Its still here and its still successful.

 

[DirtTime]

Let's get one thing straight.  All new hunters are welcome.  

 

But if a newbie expects to come into the fold and start telling others how things have to change, how things we have been doing for years are wrong, how your ammo is wrong and your rifle makes you look like a terrorist, how handguns are wrong, how the NRA is bad and how you must conform, concede, co-operate and compromise because they demand it and are looking to enforce it, they are not going to be welcome anymore.

 

I have seen too much concession over the decades to let it happen anymore.  Enough is enough.  If you have problems with the way hunting happens today, don't hunt, or do your thing your way without telling others how to do it.  If you expect to join a large fraternity of people that have been doing things their way for decades, don't expect to enter, demand fundamental change and take over because you think they're wrong.

 

New hunters can voice their opinions all they like, but they better not puss out and cry like a child about being bullied when they bring justifiable wrath on themselves  with their "I'm right and you're not" attitude.  You will not get respect because you demand it.  You need to earn it.  That's hard to do if you're not savvy.  It's easier to earn contempt, which can never be returned.

 

Case in point:  Years ago in this land, there was another large fraternity of people who were willing to compromise, concede and trust the newbies and the changes they wanted imposed by the government.  Everything they did was unacceptable too.  Today they have nothing and regret not fighting from the beginning.  They referred to themselves as the Indigenous People of Turtle Island.  Today we call them Native Americans.

 

 

 

Internet bullying is a crime these days. So, yeah, you can be sued.

 

 

 

AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 To get back on track..................................

 

 

NRA? Support or no?

[Mr VJP]

 

Internet bullying is a crime these days. So, yeah, you can be sued.

 

 

 

Exactly the point I was making.  Let's allow more fundamental change without dissent.  It's obviously good for America.

[k burke]

Curmudgeon,

 

I'm with you and the other Non-NRA but pro-gun and pro hunting hunters.  

 

I also agree that it doesn't help to recruit new hunters who may not care about or agree with positions of the NRA and therefore not want to support the NRA if there constantly and rudely told they have to.  People don't typically want to be members of groups if they feel they are not welcome and folks just starting out trying to meet with others and get into hunting would be hard pressed to get passed that.  

 

I'd much rather put my financial support to hunting organizations such as Ducks Unlimited, RGS, etc.

[nyantler]

I'd much rather put my financial support to hunting organizations such as Ducks Unlimited, RGS, etc.

 

Who do little for gun rights...

[Curmudgeon]

Let's get one thing straight.  All new hunters are welcome. .............................but they better not puss out and cry like a child about being bullied when they bring justifiable wrath on themselves  with their "I'm right and you're not" attitude.

 

I can't imagine a new hunter doing anything like this. They would just go away.

 

New hunters need encouragement, teaching and respect - regardless of whether or not you agree with them. I have not discussed politics with my mentee, and I won't. My relationship with her is about teaching her to hunt. To respect life when she does so.

 

[Elmo]

I have to agree here. the NRA is mainly a political force that's supposed to help gun owners rights. It doesn't always work out the way we want, but it's better to support them then do nothing.

 

You beat me to it.  This is my exact feelings.

 

I doubt I will find any organization that mirrors my views 100% but if there is any organization that has will have enough political power to maintain our freedom, it's the NRA.  It's not the organization that represents my views the most but rather the organization that will most likely deliver some result for me.

 

Their constant calling to ask for more money is really annoying though.

[nyantler]

I can't imagine a new hunter doing anything like this. They would just go away.

 

New hunters need encouragement, teaching and respect - regardless of whether or not you agree with them. I have not discussed politics with my mentee, and I won't. My relationship with her is about teaching her to hunt. To respect life when she does so.

 

 

So what you're saying is blow smoke up their ass... so they don't take their ball and go home... even if they're full of crap? We're talking about challenging a newbies BS on a forum... Not mentoring them in the field... if a novice asks a question that's one thing... if they're spouting crap without knowing what the hell they're talking about.. that's another... and they're fair game just like the big boys.

[Mr VJP]

I was referring to certain hunters who are new to this forum with that post.

 

 

[nyantler]

I was referring to certain hunters who are new to this forum with that post.

 

Definitely fair game then!

[coonhunter]

Wow. Now we are talking about bullying. It is a forum on the internet. There are tons of them. If people don't like what is said, all you have to do is go to another site, or turn it off. I can never understand the logic of thinking you have to debate every subject back and forth for days, and then get mad about it.

 

I think the moderators do a good job here with not shutting people or posts down except for very extreme rule breaking. What the heck, now some are calling for censorship? Give me a break. I don't agree with a lot of posts on here. Guess what I do? I don't feel the overwhelming urge to comment,  I ignore it.

 

Any forum is full of people that think they are always right, and there is no way you are going to change that fact. Hunting is full of people from all walks of life. Some like to talk about it, some like to debate about it, and some like to flat out argue about it.

 

Some of our debaters are newer members, and some have been around for years. Some of them stay civil and actually read what others posts, and some just post and post some more. The main thing is to try and agree to disagree on some subjects and stay civil. Hell, Belo and Bubba argue back and forth all the time, sometimes getting a little heated, but they always seem to get back to one another when it seems they hate each other most of the time. They have just learned take their shots and receive some in return without getting too mad most of the time. Guarantee neither of them want this site censored. Last year Bubba had had enough, and he took a break from the site. He was welcomed back like a long lost friend because he is a valuable asset to the forum.

 

I guess all I'm trying to say in this long winded speech is, if you are going to dish it out, you better be prepared to take it in return. I consider almost anyone that takes the time to post ideas, thoughts, pictures, or stories a valuable member to this forum. As a matter of fact, this is one of the best forums for our state I have found. Keep the debates going, and I welcome the moderators to participate all they want because they are hunters too.

[nyantler]

I would hope there are no sissy's that would cry "bullying" on a hunting forum... yeah I said it.. SISSY!

[jjb4900]

I would hope there are no sissy's that would cry "bullying" on a hunting forum... yeah I said it.. SISSY!

my thoughts exactly.......and from grown men nonetheless.

Edited December 16, 2014 by jjb4900

[blackradio]

Then what actions do you take to support that belief?

I buy and shoot guns!

[nyantler]

I do not belong to the NRA.

 

I met a gentleman, about the same age as I am, who worked at the national headquarters (near DC). He did not know I was a hunter or gun owner and never asked, and he was pretty blatant about saying what he did for the NRA and that he was at their HQ. He was fairly materialistic and open about what kind of money he makes. All of this around a dinner table at a wedding in the Finger Lakes.

 

Then the guy proceeded to act like a fool. I won't get into details, but I wasn't the only one who had that impression as it was vocalized. It was foolish, ass-clown behavior that was borderline someone knocking his lights out and nobody would care if it happened. In fact, he deserved it. While I like to think of myself as a somewhat educated middle class person, I can be pretty backwoods at times. This behavior was a new low for me to see in such an environment.

 

I have zero problem with him acting a fool if one can deal with the consequences of your own reputational hit. But, I have a concrete problem with him doing that and being very blatant about representing the NRA (passing out business cards even). I sent the group a letter explaining such and the guy still works there 5 years later in a rather high position. I can't put money into a group that sees value in someone of that mentality.

 

Most if not all groups have fools in their employ... I know of such a group that I think you might even belong to... yet that doesn't necessarily say anything about the group, what it stands for or what it has accomplished.

[wildcat junkie]

I was referring to certain hunters who are new to this forum with that post.

Just because a hunter might be "new to the forum" doesn't mean he's a "new hunter".

 

I started hunting in 1964 so I don't think you are intitled to some kind of hunting seniority rights that demand subserviant behavior from "new hunters".

 

As far as I know, we are all equals here. I show respect when it is reciprocated.

 

Excuse me if I forgot to bathe your feet.

 

[Curmudgeon]

So what you're saying is blow smoke up their ass... so they don't take their ball and go home... even if they're full of crap? We're talking about challenging a newbies BS on a forum... Not mentoring them in the field... if a novice asks a question that's one thing... if they're spouting crap without knowing what the hell they're talking about.. that's another... and they're fair game just like the big boys.

 

No. Don't blow smoke up there ass. If you want new hunters to understand, you have to teach them. If they are spouting crap, then they need to be corrected. I agree, an arrogant ignorant is different from newbies who may not either share anyone in particulars views, or understand compelling political issues.

 

Remember what happened on the thread with the guy who wounded a buck and shot at another's butt. I don't approve of what he did. Let me ask this, are we as hunters better off having driven him away?

 

[mmkay]

That's the name of this article - http://alibi.com/food/43794/Pro-Gun-Anti-NRA.html

After being called an anti in another thread because I have trouble with the NRA (anti hunting or guns I am not sure), I went looking for information on how many hunters are NRA members. It turns out no more than 20%. Interesting.

Here are some other views on the NRA from hunters - not surprisingly from sources that are not right leaning:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/6/18/hunters-gun-rightshavenothingtodowithhunting.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/opinion/i-hunt-but-i-oppose-the-nra.html?_r=0

Is there a litmus test for being on this forum? Do you have to support the NRA to belong? I thought is was a hunting forum.

back to your question. I think all are welcome on this site...NRA member and non-member

thank you for the links. However, both are left leaning anti-gun organizations. Aljazeera and the NY times? I don't think their writing are open minded. Oh well the NY times is laying off its staff today and oil dollars are drying up for Aljazeera, hopefully both organizations will continue to fail and be nothing but a memory soon.

But again, I do enjoy hearing from both sides of topic.

thanks

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I buy and shoot guns!

Is that enough to protect your rights?

[Curmudgeon]

I would hope there are no sissy's that would cry "bullying" on a hunting forum... yeah I said it.. SISSY!

 

nyantler -

 

Hey, you hurt my feelings. As you can tell from all my posts, I am extremely sensitive to criticism.

 

But back to being serious. I have a lot of respect for your intelligence. I read what you write. Do you not think that the attitudes such as VJP's affect new hunters, especially young women, negatively?

[Curmudgeon]

back to your question. I think all are welcome on this site...NRA member and non-member

thank you for the links. However, both are left leaning anti-gun organizations. Aljazeera and the NY times? I don't think their writing are open minded. Oh well the NY times is laying off its staff today and oil dollars are drying up for Aljazeera, hopefully both organizations will continue to fail and be nothing but a memory soon.

But again, I do enjoy hearing from both sides of topic.

thanks

 

mmkay -

 

I didn't read the second and third articles past the first paragraph's. I was just looking for information on the topic to illustrate a point. i found it in a google search. As I said earlier, the real purpose of the discussion was about how people treat each other, how this affects new hunters, and how whether the moderators have some responsibility.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Curmudgeon,

 

I also agree that it doesn't help to recruit new hunters who may not care about or agree with positions of the NRA and therefore not want to support the NRA if there constantly and rudely told they have to.  People don't typically want to be members of groups if they feel they are not welcome and folks just starting out trying to meet with others and get into hunting would be hard pressed to get passed that.  

 

 

I'm glad a couple of people got the point.