Looks like there may just be statewide Antler Restricts.

[upstatehunter]

Is the antler restriction law just another way for the state to make money as in court fines

[WNYBuckHunter]

Is the antler restriction law just another way for the state to make money as in court fines

All of the fines should be raised. Every single one of them.

They would need to be able to enforce the laws to up the number of tickets.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I would expect that non hunting land owners would wise up pretty quickly once their acquaintances and fellow farmers start making good money for leasing their land. Friend has a 2 week Illinois lease. 200 acres $10,000. and it isn't exclusive.  

Yes sir, Thats my point. Bigger deer, Better hunting will open lands and bring money into the state. Some of the better farms/land will get ate up by out of state big money and those Ny guys hunting it now..if there are any..will be SOL Then smaller parcels of the good hunting but not the best, will be leased by the Ny guys..And then there will be state land!

[nyantler]

a

The best hunting and fondest memories I have in hunting were the late.o's early 2000's deer were plentiful,land was still accessible. Ask yourself this if you shot a buck that scored 120 or so every year would you be happy?or would you want a bigger deer maybe 140's. If so your a user and greedy as much as you hate to admit it. There is more to a hunting experiance.imposing your belief on a another hunter having to take a certain size deer. Is the same as a person forcing you to learn spanish...there is no biologicaly benifit to learning it or letting one grow bigger except to meet someone else's beliefs.

 

There is definitely a biological benefit to a stronger age structure in the buck population as far as herd management is concerned. There  may not be any biological need however for a mandatory AR program at the current time in NY. And, even if there was.. the majority of hunters in NY wouldn't understand why or even care... The big push for AR's is more a selfish trophy hunting thing among hunters than it is a concern for improvement of herd management... and, in my opinion, trophy hunting is not a good reason for implementation of statewide mandatory antler restrictions.

[G-Man]

I had 8 "shooter" bucks on cam,1 was killed by a neighboring propetty by a guest. The rest? I have 4 back on cam after the season and during.no more were taken,the buck I got I never saw before. This is after 16 years of management for game.my firm belief is that 3.5 and older bucks die of natural causes and not hunters...

[upstatehunter]

I wouldnt pay money to hunt a piece of property......I can go to the store and spend $2000 on meat and then hunt my land or state land and kill a buck

[BizCT]

I wouldnt pay money to hunt a piece of property......I can go to the store and spend $2000 on meat and then hunt my land or state land and kill a buck

Good for you. Would you like to get paid to let someone hunt your land?

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[Lawdwaz]

And in your experience before and after ar in pa....wich was better and y if you don't mind me asking?

 

Easily before. 

 

Why, becasue I enjoy seeing and glassing deer.  The woods are silent then all of a sudden here they come, two, no three......wait, there are 5 deer coming!  Get the binoculars up, what do you see?  Doe, fawns.....doe ahh a buck.  Bang!  These days its sit and wait........hours at a time.   Here they come, two deer, no only one.   Hmm, its a spike buck, he gets a pass.  In the old days in PA you saw 20-30 or even more deer in a day.  Sometimes you didn't kill a buck but you sure were busy glassing!

 

If I want to pass a buck or 6 like I did in NYS on opening day this year, that is my choice.  Many people INCLUDING me have become much more selective about what we want to shoot and when.  Choice is good and seeing deer is good.

 

If the DEC implements AR's, more antlerless deer will be shot.

 

If the DEC implements OBR, more antlerless deer will be shot.

 

If the DEC shortens the gun season, guys will be pressured to kill an antlerless deer fast as they don't have the time off from work as they'll probably take away a weekend too. 

 

Oh yea, when I say more antlerless deer will be shot, don't forget that includes yearling bucks too!

 

With a shortened gun season weather could be an issue like it was here in WNY during the first week or the season, hurting the chances of filling a tag or two for an entire area of hunters.

 

Blah blah blah........

[jjb4900]

look at what NYC is doing, they are buying up private land at an alarming rate and opening it to the public....there's a lot of unhappy people because of this, the Real Estate people are pissed because now that land is forever off the market and many of the local residents are pissed because this previously unhunted land, that may or may not have been their private sanctuary's now has others hunting it....so as much as big money may be securing big parcels of land, public entities are doing the same.

[Lawdwaz]

 This is after 16 years of management for game.my firm belief is that 3.5 and older bucks die of natural causes and not hunters...

 

Winner, winner;chicken dinner.

 

Bingo.

 

Spot on.

[WNYBuckHunter]

If the DEC implements OBR, more antlerless deer will be shot.

Just curious, why do you think that would happen?

[Lawdwaz]

Larry, OBR has nothing to do with population control.

 

You might not think that but.........

 

A guy that kills a buck with the bow then would have no other reason to go to camp for gun season to be with the guys so he'd just figure he might as well start shooting antlerless deer or there is no reason to be at camp or in the woods.

 

Maybe he never killed an antlerless deer in his life.  Now he will........................

 

Pure speculation on my part I know.

[stoneam2006]

You might not think that but.........

A guy that kills a buck with the bow then would have no other reason to go to camp for gun season to be with the guys so he'd just figure he might as well start shooting antlerless deer or there is no reason to be at camp or in the woods.

Maybe he never killed an antlerless deer in his life. Now he will........................

Pure speculation on my part I know.

Ik with my hunting friends/family that's is exactly how it would work...if I fill my buck tag durring bow my entire gun season will be targeting does as the rest I know would too...at least if I have a second buck tag If I cut a fresh set of what I think are buck tracks I may Pass on does while I try and stalk him....even if he's only a spike.

[jjb4900]

they should go back to when you bought your regular season tag that was good for archery and regular season...it was either sex during archery and if you were successful you could buy another tag for the regular season that was buck only as it is now and turned back into an either sex tag during late bow / muzzleloader season, and doe tags were pretty much on an area based need.......

[sampotter]

 

 

WHY DON'T YOU KILL A BRUTE EACH YEAR YOU TROPHY HUNTERS?  THEY ARE THERE..............

 

 

 

 

Who says we aren't?

 

In the old days in PA you saw 20-30 or even more deer in a day.  Sometimes you didn't kill a buck but you sure were busy glassing!

 

PA was ridiculously overpopulated with deer. The only benefit was the hunters who liked to see swarms of deer wouldn't get bored on stand. EVERYTHING else suffered; small wildlife like nesting birds, the forest, farmers, heck even the deer suffered from increased disease and stress. PGC never should have let populations get that high in the 1st place.

 

I'll give them a suggestion to shore up their management plan. Spend the effort addressing the biggest hurdle in front of most hunters. Land access. dump the damned nuisance tags and find a way to assist hunters in getting in areas. Spread out some of the pressure and get the herd numbers in some of these high density WMU's under control.

 

Hunters have ruined access to land. Not trophy hunters paying leases either. It was the few slobs that were disrespectful to land and landowners. More land has been Posted and closed to access due to this than any other reason. Example: A big farm down the road with several thousand acres leased their land out a couple of years ago because they were sick of dealing with slobs and they wanted to control who was on it.

[upstatehunter]

Good for you. Would you like to get paid to let someone hunt your land?

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No because as I said I hunt my land......and why would I want someone from let's say jersey hunting my land, shooting anything, leaving garbage, wounding deer, going on to my neighbors land so then I hear about it......they get to go home while new Yorker deal with the after math

[phade]

On a single subject? You sure can. I saw it too, it covered a bunch of topics. Pick one each year, and within a few years, you have the same subjects covered, with everyones opinion.

You have agreed with the thought process behind mandatory reporting of tags, have you not? That would be feasable, and a survey would be as well.

Pushback from retailers? Why? They already have to punch things into the computer, the survey questions would take an additional few seconds per license. Cornell could still run the crunching of the data and put the reports together. I know databases, the one they use currently is most likely SQL driven, not hard to add a table. Heck, you could even take the retailers out of the equation and run the survey online and over the phone at the time of reporting your first tag. Mandatory tag reporting makes it so everyone gets the survey, or the option to opt out. Either way, they were given the opportunity to express their concerns.

You want hunters to be happy? Dont make it so they feel a disconnection from the changes that happen. Listen to what is said on here about the DEC, conspiracies, people that think the DEC doesnt care about anything but money, etc etc.

The opportunity cost for a few seconds per license is alot bigger than you would think from a retailer. Realistically its probably more like a few minutes as people think or respond. I have nothing to go on other than my experience but theyd be asking for millions in increased cut percentage. They probably get two or three percent, and theyd likely want 5 to 7 percent...multiply that by a half million licenses give or take.

I agree with more everything but at the end of the day the law of diminishing return become fiscally required to implement. Spend less than a million for Cornell to do this with precision or milions upon millions to get little gain. As much as people think Cornell couldnt come up with the same data a full required survey would, i disagree. A small statistical survey run correctly is shown to be the right path in nearly every aspect of life. Heck, my dept. samples 3 percent or less and we get a 99.98 percent accuracy rate in transaction projections...and this is with peoples health insurance on the line.

making everyone feel involved is nice, but at the end of the day, i dont think a fiscally responsible way can be done that at the same time provide some increased and measurable benfit over the way most survey methodology results are derived. Especially by a leading authority on it. Remember at the end of the day, were talking just about deer hunting. we cant even include this level of survey methodology in anything we do on things that are way more important. Why? Because it doesnt make sense from any angle other than people "feeling good".

Edited January 8, 2015 by phade

[NFA-ADK]

Even as a self admitted trophy hunter I think these are bad ideas.

 

1) Any additional regulation will not improve hunter relations and could drive some out.   

 

2) It seems this is being done to have more big bucks, happy hunters resulting in more out of state purchases because we are shooting 200 BC.

Will more big bucks be shot, probably, will 200 inch BC deer be abundant NO.  Will this ever result in MORE purchases because now NY is a big buck state, I doubt it. 

 

3) A few year ago I would not have cared about any of these regulation because basically they would not affect me.  But just like many have stated I feel my brothers and sisters should be able to make their own choice on what they want to shoot and not have to worry about the deer they shot being legal. 

 

4) I only see these regulations resulting in more deer left in the wood out of fear of prosecution due to an error in judging antler size. 

 

Funny how some say if we do nothing it will brake?  I though the deer population and size where in good shape even if not exactly balanced.  Let other states keep their restrictions and keep our state in balance.  Our deer regulations are not broken, don't fix it!!!  My 2 cents.

 

 

[BizCT]

No because as I said I hunt my land......and why would I want someone from let's say jersey hunting my land, shooting anything, leaving garbage, wounding deer, going on to my neighbors land so then I hear about it......they get to go home while new Yorker deal with the after math

LOL, nevermind.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

No because as I said I hunt my land......and why would I want someone from let's say jersey hunting my land, shooting anything, leaving garbage, wounding deer, going on to my neighbors land so then I hear about it......they get to go home while new Yorker deal with the after math

This does not happen with high end lease's. This is what happens most times with locals that i allow to hunt on mu lands. Have a friend of the family that i let on our north property,He asked to trap first and then to cut old dead firewood. Next time i am back in there i see where live trees are cut and gone. Most times its not the people that pay to hunt property that leaves a bad taste in land owners mouths.

They pay because they know what they have and they dont want to lose that.   

[Lawdwaz]

You might not think that but.........

 

A guy that kills a buck with the bow then would have no other reason to go to camp for gun season to be with the guys so he'd just figure he might as well start shooting antlerless deer or there is no reason to be at camp or in the woods.

 

Maybe he never killed an antlerless deer in his life.  Now he will........................

 

Pure speculation on my part I know.

 

One more REALLY BIG thing......remember, if a guy can only shoot one buck, then he goes out and shoots a doe in place of that 2nd buck right?  Well that doe most probably would produce at the minimum a single fawn but very possibly two fawns.  All that along with the usual antlerless kill.

 

So, instead of a guy killing a 2nd buck, he has possibly killed three deer by tagging one doe in place of that 2nd buck.

 

No disputing that.

 

AR's and OBR will be a way of population control, back door style.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[upstatehunter]

LOL, nevermind.

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Do you have property? Have you dealt with what I described?

[BizCT]

Do you have property? Have you dealt with what I described?

Regardless of what you want to believe, there are Many people (including myself) who hunt other people's properties and never leave garbage behind or walk on property that they aren't supposed to.

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[G-Man]

Yes sir, Thats my point. Bigger deer, Better hunting will open lands and bring money into the state. Some of the better farms/land will get ate up by out of state big money and those Ny guys hunting it now..if there are any..will be SOL Then smaller parcels of the good hunting but not the best, will be leased by the Ny guys..And then there will be state land!

how does this bring more money into the state? it brings it to the landowners ,they report it the state can get a portion of taxes.. more leases means fewer hunters and less licence sales (wich fund wildlife programs)

[stubby68]

                   I would not mind an obr I never shoot more then one anyways. Would rather eat a doe but the bucks are good for sausage. At least the 1.5 to 2.5 olds are. After that they are not really any good to eat anyways. Too tuff and strong tasteing. I hunt for meat I like haveing the choice to shoot what I want. I do not shoot bb or fawns but 1.5 and up go down if I feel like putting them down. I have gotten some nice bucks and some not si nice bucks rack wise but they were all good on the plate. I have no problem putting down a doe as they eat much better and would rather have the doe the bucks get killed for sausage not for decoration.

 

                   In some areas of this state deer are few and far between in other areas they are all over. I like seeing and watching deer and having the choice of what and when I shoot, 10 or 15 years ago I could do just that, not anymore because if I pass on one I might not see anymore. 15 years ago I was known to have passed on more then on big old deer and shoot a little smaller younger one just for the better meat. IMO the better meat. I was also known to pass on young deer as well just because I wanted to watch rather then kill at the time they came by. Now I shoot juat to make sure I get the meat. Not saying I would starve with out it but I do enjoy it. I enjoy being in the woods and enjoy having the choice of what I shoot. Being out there is still enjoyable however with fewer deer in my areas the choice is not there which lessens the enjoyment in part. Adding ar or making a shorter season would kill all of the hunting enjoyment for me. And before anyone says that I do not love the sport if this is what takes the enjoyment out of it for me let me say you couldnt be further from the truth. I hunt every day no matter the weather or deer movement. When season arives you can find me one of 2 places in the woods or on the way to the woods. I love hunting for the pleasure it gives me and the food it provides not for the decorations I might get out of it. In my opinion trophy hunters are not hunters they are interior decorators. AS I SAID THIS IS MY OPINION the same as when a trophy hunter says I am not a hunter because I do not care about there decorations.

 

 

                I do not want my choice to kill a small buck taken just as a trophy hunter wouldn't like it if they were told they had to kill all small bucks. I like to see lots of deer not to make myu hunt easy but because I like watching them and I like to have more then one choice as to what I shoot.When people talk about ar they say it will help the heard when u ask them how they say it lets bucks get older and bigger, Lots of big old bucks are seen and taken every year so saying that ar lets bucks grow older and bigger just means that the ar pushers want to see 160 class bucks behind every tree.  Befor all the tv shows guys were happy with seeing and getting any buck, the shows make it seem like you are less of a hunter if you do not kill a p& h or b&c everytime you walk out the door.

 

                Do we need change? Yes. What? not a clue but I do not believe taking away a hunters choice of what they shoot is the answer. Making gun season shorter isn't the answer either. Bow season is longer then gun so why not shortern that. Some people have limited time to hunt and a shorter season might make them not even bother with it. Think of how you would feel if you only had a 2 week season and only 2 days to hunt during it and could only shoot size deer. Do you think it would be worth the price of the tags? Why not do away with all seperate seasons and make one season from the forth sat in october to the fifth sat in november statewide and make it what ever weapon you chose to use crossbow,bow , rifle, muzzy your choice.