Shorten the NY Gun Season?

[G-Man]

The season is long to allow the number of deer to be taken, but if you split the season you could shorten it and allow the deer to return to more natural patterns. I would run a week of gun (thanksgiving week), close it for 2 weeks and then another week,followed by the late bow/ muzzleloader. Most deer are taken in the 1st 2 days of gun. having 2 openers would allow the numbers to be harvested and increase the numbers of hunters in the woods to move the deer around.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        As for the pressure before season it has to have an effect. Living on the property i hunt its quiet all year untill 2 weeks before season thenthe 4 wheelers hit the woods, hammering , target shooting,woodsmoke coming out of chimneys,spotting at night. All this has a noticable effect on the local herd as they go into hiding and head to sanctuary areas. That plus the fact land use has changed(posted everywhere) and hunting as come down to stand hunting as property are smaller a lot of people buy 5 or ten acres for a camp and bring 4-10 guys to hunt it. the deer leave and find a nice quite area to stay(i would too!). I do most of my scouting now hang stands in july, and use cameras only in easily accessable areas as to leave my woods as undisturbed as possible. seems to work here at least. Toughtest part is not trying to scout in early oct. and keeping the guys i hunt with out of the woods at that time.

[SteveB]

I think Sunday hunting should be mandatory. Church service allowed only the fifth Monday of the month. 

[nyantler]

There really shouldn't have to be anything done in the way of changing the season if the attitude of hunters would change... but we all know that isn't going to happen.

[wztirem]

The season lengths suit the purposes (mandate) of the DEC. They want as many deer as possible killed!

[G-Man]

I personally don't think they let enough be taken.. they have to big management areas and really have no idea of the actuall numbers of deer in an area..

[wztirem]

I personally don't think they let enough be taken.. they have to big management areas and really have no idea of the actuall numbers of deer in an area..

True, their estimates are always in question and the hunting community is a contributing factor to their statistics  for not reporting deer kills. In any event the DEC can always devise ways to maintain their mandate.

[Doc]

I personally don't think they let enough be taken.. ..

Actually that's a two-headed coin. The same factors of questionable management and hard-to-believe deer inventory assessments that cause deer over-populations are also responsible for undue deer scarcity in other places. policies of reactive game management are the reason that we see the populations seeming to cycle from high to low and back to high again. At least that's the view and theory from my uneducated position.

[nyantler]

I agree Doc.. The DEC need to be much more proactive in their approach to management

[Culvercreek hunt club]

i don't know...maybe it is just me ...but I think if you implement some of these ideas....shorten gun season...no sunday hunting again and a like. it might have the opposite effect on the quality of bucks taken. If the average joe, faced with a shorter season or less opportunity...would be more adpt to take a young buck.

[Larry]

With a Saturday opener there will always be hunting on Sunday. There is very little interests in moving the opener to Monday

[bubba]

well the two go hand n hand. If you stop sunday hunting in the sz of course, you could go back to monday. 

[orion]

"If the average joe, faced with a shorter season or less opportunity...would be more apt to take a young buck"

I would agree. Knowing that you have another weekend or two to hunt will make it easier for those to pass up a smaller buck on opening day. If its a week long season everything is getting shot at first site.

[nyantler]

"If the average joe, faced with a shorter season or less opportunity...would be more apt to take a young buck"

I would agree. Knowing that you have another weekend or two to hunt will make it easier for those to pass up a smaller buck on opening day. If its a week long season everything is getting shot at first site.

So true.. an unfortunately that hunter mentality is the reason why it is hard to devise a management plan to benefit the whitetails and please hunters in NYS without having to pass a law to do it.. we can't rely on hunters to show restraint themselves so we have to force them to.. sad situation really

[eagle rider]

Lots of states with longer seasons produce monsters including Iowa and South Carolina.  I think a legitimate state-wide QDM program would go further to getting a healthier herd than a shorter season would.  Look how PA turned around their heard in juts a few years, seasons were not made shorter, just antler restrictions were imposed. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Eagle, we are not talking about shorter overall deer season, just shorter firearms season. Iowa has short and broken up firearms seasons unlike NY's long, contiguous seasons.

[eagle rider]

I like gun hunting, so my opinion (for what its worth, would be no).  That being said, I'd like to see a legitimate state-wide QDM program on place for the gun season.  This way spikes and buttons have a chance to get bigger and get their genes into the herd before they run the risk of being harvested. 

[SteveB]

What would a legitimate state wide qdm program consist of?

[eagle rider]

Part of Virginia use a 15" inside spread, three antler on one side can work too.

[nyantler]

That's not QDM .. that's AR.. Couldn't really do a statewide QDM.. the plan consists of too many elements that would be hard for the DEC to manage... better that qdm is left to individual privately owned or leased hunting land.

[SteveB]

NYA - thanks for saving me more typing from the phone.

[nyantler]

Always here to help Steve..

[eagle rider]

see the following from the Univ of Tennessee Agricultural Extension, QDM Guideline for Implementation:

Hunters practicing QDM, in essence, become managers

by improving the age structure (allowing yearling bucks

to survive to maturity) and sex ratio (harvesting adequate

numbers of does), managing the habitat and keeping

detailed records on deer observed and killed.

Among other concepts are safe habitating as a function of carrying capacity management, doe harvests, etc.  Some states (or regions there of) include an "earn a buck" buck tag requirement.  So there is a lot to it, but protecting immature bucks from early harvest is fundamental to its success. The Tennessee program is just one of many success stories. Tennessee's program has also had a positive impact on the Western North Carolina Herd. 

[SteveB]

How many can tell difference between 14 + 15" at even 25 yds let alone 100+ ? And 60 percent of the 1.5 bucks in my wmu are 6 pt or better.    There are 2 other AR threads running.

[nyantler]

Tennesee does not have a statewide QDM program.. they offer up guidelines for hunters... but do not have an overall QDM plan that is state mandated... just too hard to do

[eagle rider]

In Flint and Winchester County VA, where the landowners practice a voluntary QDM, among the rules for gun harvested deer is a 15" inside spread requirement.  The rule of thumb is the spread should extend to the outside of the ears.  Also, hunters are warmed to not shoot squat faced deer or deer that antlerless and by themselves.  This reults in higher doe harvests during the rifle season and less immature bucks being harvested.  They also rotate acerage that is non huntable from season to season and fortify food plots accordingly.  They've been doing this over the last 20 or so years that I've been going there.  I have literally seen the quality of the deer in Northwestern VA improve from season to season.  Fines are imposed on non qualifying bucks as high as $500.  Its serious business and I seen those who make the mistake of take of a non qualifier twice loose their land owners endorsements to hunt there.  Lastly hunters are absolutely encourraged to shoot coyotes, and in fact some land owner pay bounties for them.