When do you know you have coyote problem?

[growalot]

For one thing you are basically talking about two different animals when you speak of western(longhorn stalking) coyote's and the bigger and certainly urbanized Eastern coyote/wolf hybrid.

You are correct on attempts to kill them causes a higher breeding rate, but that could be corrected with a year around hunting, just like with raccoons. When prices are down then trapping is as well. They both have few natural predators and populations can explode. It may be cyclical but right now we are in a growth...There is no denying such things when there are so many cameras in the woods these days, an increase in confrontations with them.

Now I just love the fact I was poo whooed years ago when I spoke of the things these animals were doing, Oh no they are afraid..they don't run and hunt in packs...they don't get that big....Ya right. It wont be until they evolve even further, or just manage to pull up more of there wolf heritage and look to people as good opportunistic meals, will people like you say hey maybe something should be done.

I personally do not like having to warn the little 80 yr old woman at the gym about taking her pup out to potty at night,when she tells me she had a few sets of eyes pacing the wood line as she stood in the yard. I certainly do not enjoy seeing all the now DAY TIME pics I'm getting of them. hearing PACKS howling half the night.

Let me say this one more time..Animals do not always do the things that the "experts" say they do..I would think that all these radio collard studies that have been going on would finally get ppl to realize this.Like Ohh we had no idea there was that big a population in Chicago,Toronto ,NYC...really Because 30 years ago there was a thriving population in Avon NY and most people knew it...I witnessed it nightly on my midnight bike rides around town...Time to wake up.

Edited July 26, 2015 by growalot

[greg54]

Shoot them all.

[gjs4]

I feel like every thread here ends up being the "airing of grievances" from Seinfeld

[Mr VJP]

From what I've seen of the science, once coyotes enter an area, they will continue to reproduce until you have a problem, whether they are hunted or not.

 

Hunting them will not control them as quickly as one would hope, especially if year round hunting isn't allowed.  But every indication points to the fact they must be controlled by aggressive hunting once they invade a given area, otherwise they will surely become a major problem.

 

The question becomes, how many in a given area becomes a problem?  I believe that can only be answered by the inhabitants of that particular area.

 

[wmig2]

The coyote is one of the most adaptable creatures on the planet. It has no natural enemy besides the wolf. The coyote is one of the last mammals to live when the world comes to its end they speculate. 

If your looking for a real challenge try calling them in the East. The ratio for a call in is about 1 to 15 calls/sets for pro in the East. There aren't a lot of coyote hunting videos produced in the East due to lack of response, population and they're more skittish than their western species. 

[growalot]

I agree with all but this:

 

 

they're more skittish than their western species.

 

I believe that depends on the area and the specific animals in that area. Like I have said....not all animals act the same...Take the example of the deer I can walk within yards of here and at camp all I need to do is walk out the door of camp and the wood lot empties. It is based on the activities they  associate with danger.  It  is conditioning with in their home ranges.

[thphm]

The DEC should play Give and Take , They will take away some of the Turkey hunting so why don't the Give us A longer Yote season. All year would be grate.

[wolc123]

I have sort of a love/hate relationship with the coyote.   The hunters in the zone where I live (9F) are not getting the job done on deer and the coyote helps keep numbers in check thru aggressive fawn and rutted-out buck harvests.  By eliminating the weak deer they strengthen and improve the overall health of the herd.   Also, they do well on those "feathered rats", the wild turkey which have put a hurting on my field-corn if not controlled somewhat (again, hunters alone don't get the job done here, since only spring hunting is popular and you cant shoot hens then).   I do love to eat venison however and the thought of all that wonderful red meat "going to the dogs" is where my hatred comes in.   

 

Right now, there is a mamma coyote with pups living adjacent to a soybean field behind our house.  I am a little nervous about letting my 11 year old daughters go out back to the pond fishing or play in their fort.   There has been coyote attacks on kids in CA recently and even a few in NY I am told.   If one of them is ever successful we can expect a year-round coyote season.   Lets hope that doesn't happen.  

 

Edited July 26, 2015 by wolc123

[The_Field_Ager]

They aren't hell dogs, they are God's dogs. 

 

 

What would your anti-Christian, liberal middle-school teacher friend say if you said this in front of her class I wonder?

 

Let me turn your own words back on you if I may:

 

 

I had a conversation with a friend -  a middle school teacher and non-hunter. She does not object to hunting, Actually, I keep her supplied with non-lead ammo literature. She gives to the hunters in her class. She invited the local paper's outdoor columnist to address her class. After his presentation, a student asked him "Mr. Outdoor Writer, isn't it wrong to kill things?". To this simple question Mr. Outdoor Writer said "God put those creatures on the earth for us to do with as we like" - or words to that effect.

 

Without getting into anyone's religious beliefs, this has to be about one of the worst possible justifications to give to a public audience. It certainly raised my friend's hackles. He won't be invited back.

 

 

And yes...I never forget.

 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Papist

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I call this meeting of the He-man Coyote Haters Club to order!

 

Read the science. Shooting them changes nothing. They respond by reproducing faster.

 

To answer the original question - You have a coyote problem when they are killing pets and livestock. You guys advocating a year-round season just object to the competition. It's okay for your buddies to kill the game but not a canid.

You and your science has been proven wrong my friend. You call all out war on them things and they will be eliminated one way or the other. They either pack their bags and move or they learn to move only under the cover of darkness, Keep their mouths shut and jump from stump to stump so they dont leave tracks.   

 

If the Op leaves those things and does nothing he will have no game to worry about for him or his buddies.

[greg54]

I say shoot them all....

[DirtTime]

Hater? I don't hate them, I just know what kind of chaos they can create on game animals and us as hunters need to do something and the DEC needs to start addressing the issue.

I have a question for you Curmudgeon, how would you handle this situation:

The land I hunt in the NZ we also camp on during the Summer. For the past three years the coyotes have grown in numbers and are not so skittish at night. Each year we hear them get at least one deer in the middle of the night and they are starting to get closer and closer to our camp each year. We camp in a tent. Last year a pack of at least 4 started making a lot of noise around 8pm on our first night, they were withing 50 yards of us and we could not see them. The next night at about 1am the did it again, and at what sounded like the same distance.

What would you do if a pack came walking into your camp at night and all you have is a tent for shelter?

[Curmudgeon]

Trying to catch up here. Sorry if I miss anyone.

 

Grow - you make some good points.

 

gis4 - I have no idea what the Sienfeld reference means. I only know it was a TV show. Maybe you were talking to me. Enjoy yourself if it went over my head.

 

VJP and others - a "problem" is what I would like to define. I see no problem.

 

4 Seasons - Facts and reality matter my friend.

 

Rob - They don't create "chaos". We created a vacuum they are filling. 4 Seasons keeps that vacuum running while Fort Drum fills in the hole. As far as fearing them while camping. I have had packs near me while camping. I have always found their noise unnerving. However, I have learned that it is not to be feared any more than any other wild animal. They were very noisy last night and it caused me great concern. Not because of the sheep on pasture. The yotes have walked through while the sheep are out there. The concern was that they would wake 2 little girls who live in a city and disturb their sleep. Rob - just stop being afraid.

 

Papist - If my Navaho cultural reference bothered you, make sure you never attend one of my raven presentations with its host of religious beliefs, myths and superstitions. When I remember my notes, I cover cultures ranging from the Koriak to the Norse to south Asian.

As far as you not forgetting that thread where I said using a biblical rationale in a public school with a mixed audience was a terrible approach, I stand by my statement. As far as you not forgetting, if I had been slapped down and publicly spanked by a moderator like you were in that thread, I wouldn't forget either. For those who missed it - http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/27859-explaining-hunting-to-non-hunters/page-4

Edited July 27, 2015 by Curmudgeon

[The_Field_Ager]

 

 

Papist - If my Navaho cultural reference bothered you

 

 

It's the hypocrisy that bothers me, not your promotion of Navajo superstition.We get it though. As long as it is not a Judeo-Christian religious reference, your middle school teacher friend and her delicate sensibilities will not be irritated, irrespective of whether such notions are promoted publicly or not

 

Good to know.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Papist

[DirtTime]

You didn't really answer my question curmudgeon, if they came into your camp what would you do? If you love them much get one as a pet. You can say science bla bla bla.. But you can't see past your nose so I think you need to stop and agree that you disagree.

Kill all coyotes!!! All hail the he man coyote haters club!

Sent from my XT830C using Tapatalk

[Mr VJP]

VJP and others - a "problem" is what I would like to define. I see no problem.

 

Maybe you don't have a problem in your area, or perhaps you choose not to see it, but doubting that others do have a problem in their area, is blind denial.

 

Define it simply as an over abundance of coyotes, far beyond the carrying capacity of the area, causing a great deal of ecological harm by their presence. They may disappear on their own in time, but only after they have devastated the area.

[phade]

All the poor OP did was post a trail cam pic.

[Curmudgeon]

Rob -

 

I will remain a skeptic. I will continue to question such things. You are anonymous. You are on the internet. Reason and science are often in short supply around here.

 

VJP -

 

Ecological harm? Where did that come from? The ecological harm came from not having any large carnivores. There was lot's to eat and nothing except humans eating it, unless it starved and the scavengers got it. Humans have failed miserably at eating enough of the lower food chain mammal species in suburbia and areas that were marginal farmland, now reverting to forest. 

 

Coyotes do not exceed the carrying capacity of an area. They establish clear territories within which only one pair breed. All others are driven out. Killing one or both of that dominant pair causes a disruption of the social order. This often results in the creation of multiple smaller territories. Killing them is self defeating. But as my wife likes to say "Curmudgeon, stop making sense!"

 

I will admit that they can have a significant impact on deer in the forest preserve and areas of heavy lake-effect snow. In many earlier posts I have qualified my statements in that way. The suitability of those areas for deer is a whole different conversation.

 

In ME you guys can hunt them all year except during deer season. At a conference earlier this month in Rangeley, one of your state wildlife officials I was talking to called it "a hopeless war on coyotes". Nothing is being gained from a 24/7 - 9 month hunting season that extends through whelping season. I have not spoken to a professional wildlife manager with a modern education who believes anything is gained from the general persecution of predators. That statement does not deny individual problems with endangered species or encounters with people.

 

 

[grampy]

I'm not trying to represent myself as a Math Professor, but numbers don't lie. Shoot more than is born and you will have less!

[The_Field_Ager]

Rob -

 

I will remain a skeptic. I will continue to question such things. You are anonymous. You are on the internet. Reason and science are often in short supply around here.

 

Plenty of bigotry and hypocrisy however. Funny how the proponents of one (reason) often exhibit a good deal of the other (bigotry) . Not to mention the naked intolerance and misplaced arrogance of your above comment.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Papist

[The_Field_Ager]

I'm not trying to represent myself as a Math Professor, but numbers don't lie. Shoot more than is born and you will have less!

 

The Navajo believe you cannot kill a coyote. I guess Curmudgeon does too.

[wooly]

By the sound of things here, it seems like coyote season is already open 365 d/p/y and it's not helping control the population much.

Like if it WAS legal year round everyone could stack up SOOOO many more since they wouldn't spend so much time looking over their shoulders.

Or maybe everyone that claims to be killing all these yotes out of season is just FOS, but pretending to be a POACHER has somehow become an admirable title for "hunters" to label themselves with.

 

 

 

 

 

[Slaynbux]

Using calls to get coyotes to come in is fun but to really put a hurt on them u have to bend the rules a bit if baiting is not legal. They will keep coming back to bait piles. Pick up road kill deer works for me .in the winter we chain them to the ice on ponds in multiple locations . Also hang chunks of meat on a steel leader with tuna hooks about 3to 4 ft up . Careful not to close to areas with roaming domestic dogs. I have a pile 50 yds behind house with a wireless motion sensor. If u wage war on them u will reduce numbers considerably. Use shotgun when multiple yotes are present . During winter track them back to their dens. I

[growalot]

 

Also hang chunks of meat on a steel leader with tuna hooks about 3to 4 ft up .

 

OK...So poison isn't the worst thing! Really?!!!

[bkln]

I feel like every thread here ends up being the "airing of grievances" from Seinfeld

 

Happy Festivus then... :-)