Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[growalot]

If they expected to get a higher buck take and then did not give us the tags to do that YES .

I would then take a buck and be done. Just like with this doe BS, Ya I could go out and if they show up shoot a doe that first two weeks...BUT then I'm  Done ! Nothing to shoot until Nov 1 as far as doe are concerned. I'd have NO TAGS .... Im "grounded until I can use my either of on the 15th...

[moog5050]

That would stink too GF.  I prefer the choice, but if populations declined such that we wanted more deer, not less, I could live with it.  That's not the situation in these WMUs.  Although it may be the case in the future if DEC's "plan" is successful to the extreme.  Never mind balance.  Kill all the doe, then no doe for years while the population regenerates, then kill all the doe again.  Vicious cycle and poor management to say the least.

[Nomad]

Yes I would be upset. Last year I passed countless young bucks waiting for a mature one to come in bow range , I ended up taking two doe.

I have had meat in my freezer every year since the mid '80's and want to continue that.

Doe for meat bucks of a certain size for the challenge . Some years it's doe only in our freezer. I can live with a buck every 3 out of say 5 years but I could not with no meat each year.

Edited to more reflect my buck %.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Larry302

[growalot]

 

Who'll be the first to bitch when they put guns in bow season!

 

Not me ..unless you think I'm all worried I won't get a buck because of all the noise in archery...Here's the thing...I live in the country I have guns going off around me everyday  thats right every day and during the summer fireworks at least 3 nights a week...Hell If I can get use to that and the yotes waking me 5 nights a week howling....... than I think the deer can too

[gfdeputy2]

Rob no popcorn hopefully needed

grow I understand completely this is how it is in NH & sucks when you have to sit out

I have shot a deer early a couple years & only purchased one tag & had to sit out nearly 2 months till rifle opened

we can purchase 2 tags for bow one either sex & one buck only our bow season goes from Sept 15th to Dec 15th
Muzzleloader: October 31 - November 10
Firearms: November 11 - December 6

you get one firearm tag if you use it during MZ you are done no rifle for you

for a few years we had from Sept 15th - Oct 1st buck only

for some reason most bowhunters in the state were not so mad

gun hunters are still upset on the limited doe days

 

[growalot]

I understand why ...I get my doe tag for camp because seeing a buck down there is rare and a shooter(for me) is even less so. I need the doe tag if I'm going to have a shot at anything. Also if I go down to bow hunt bear I do not want to spend all the time and yes $$$ to go down there and come home empty handed.  I will try for a doe there at that time...actually on a colder day shooting a doe and staying on stand can bring a bear in smelling blood...especially if I do distress calls. got winded a couple of times doing that...getting a deer out at night is a tad scary though.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't know about that. I'm sure I'm one of the ones you think has all this animosity to bowhunters.

 

But here is how I see it playing out,

 

DEC wants the antlers deer take to increase 

Archers have the longest season in the affected areas

Archers shoot the Lowest % of antlerless deer

The DEC is giving archers the chance to increase that harvest so they don't need to bring guns in to archery season

DEC is reading this thread and knows the deer take won't increase

Archers don't shoot does 

DEC will plan to implement two week doe only muzzleloader season

Bowhunters will bitch about the early Oct gun season and not being able to hunt undisturbed deer

DEC moves early muzzleloader to the last two weeks (THE BEST FOR BOWHUNTING)

Bowhunters lose the best two weeks of archery season

 

But lets keep bitching and refusing to shoot the doe in the areas needed!

 

It's not animosity  It's a wake-up call!

I keep seeing this and also from the DEC. I can't make the numbers make sense in my head though. Personally I think they are taking a stat and making it sound like they wish since, IMO, the bowhunters are also gun hunters. So if they take doe during gun it is counted as a gun take in those %'s. I guarantee their numbers do NOT look at the hunters that do both.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It's pretty shitty a few gun hunters think their fellow hunters deserve what we got. Honestly that hurts even more than the reg itself.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Similar thing happened with the Safe Act

[gfdeputy2]

I am trying to figure out if this would bother me as much or not

I have no real vested interest like I said earlier by the time we get to hunt NY it is back to either sex

it is a 6 -7  hour & roughly 375 mile trip for us but I still think there wouldn't be one of us not to make the trip if it were buck only or doe only we would adapt to the laws / rules but it maybe because we have dealt with this for years at home. Again I am not blaming anyone for being upset we will do our best to knock down as many does as we have tags for this year to help out 8N

[Five Seasons]

Belo,

Maybe everyone else missed the point

They want them dead in archery season either help them or lose the season to muzzle loaders

 

why do they want them dead during archery? If they told us why; maybe I could get on board.

 

I have to assume that DEC thinks that the doe take will stay the same in gun even if BHs are pushed to take more doe in early season.  I don't agree with the premise, but doe take should increase if that were true.

 

It probably will stay the same. Most of us don't need more than 2 or 3 doe, if that in the freezer. I for one don't shoot more than I eat. I assume a lot of hunters are that way, so making me shoot doe only the first 2 weeks doesn't do anything to how many I will harvest that season because my freezer and family have not changed. If I get a good easy drag tits shot on a doe during bow I will probably take it. Traditionally I get a buck or 2 and then maybe if I need to I'll take a doe or 2 during mz. It's all the same. But what keeps me out during mz isn't the doe, it's a post rut buck. Otherwise I can probably poke a doe the first morning of mz. Fill my freezer and quit till next october.

 

The lack of transparency makes any assessment or understanding of the DECs decision nothing more than a crapshoot. No baseline numbers, no actual facts as they believe them to be in their PRs, and no plan layout.

 

 

x2

 

First remember I'm not making the rules and have said it won't work

But the other seasons have a 50% doe take archery doesn't

I'm obviously in the minority of trying to appease the DEC and trying to keep guns out of the archery season

So let's start a new topic or maybe a poll!

Who'll be the first to bitch when they put guns in bow season!

 

everybody will bitch. that doesn't mean we roll over and accept an impossible task.. especially one where we don't know what our goal is.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Belo,

Maybe everyone else missed the point

They want them dead in archery season either help them or lose the season to muzzle loaders

So I use my tags during bow and don't have them for gun. Percentage shifts but the same number of deer hit the deck.

[Nomad]

Most bow hunters are also gun hunters.

If I shoot doe in bow ( which I do many years) I won't in gun..... Zero sum game.

The dec can sharpen their pencils and sharpen their pencils but the numbers will add to the same amount .

Seems like Culver beat me by a couple minuets .....

Edited August 10, 2015 by Larry302

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Most bow hunters are also gun hunters.

If I shoot doe in bow ( which I do many years) I won't in gun..... Zero sum game.

The dec can sharpen their pencils and sharpen their pencils but the numbers will add to the same amount .

Seems like Culver beat me by a couple minuets .....

And since there are a higher number of unsuccessful GUN hunters, it would make sense to expand the gun hunting opportunity to make the best use of this untapped resource. That is why I mentioned a Two week mid September gun season. EXPAND THE OPPORTUNITIES, not reduce them.

[WNYBuckHunter]

                        Doc, step back and look at it from another way. The Dec wants doe take persentages to be higher during bow seasons. As it stands right they are very low persentage of doe take during gun season is high. I know all the but there are more gun hunters then bow hunters crap but the numbers of hunters in each season does not matter when just looking at persentage. If the doe take in gun is 50% that means gun hunters are shooting does. If the doe take in bow is 20% there is room for improvement. Not as many doe can be taken during bow however there could be more taken with more effort.

 

 

Uhhhh, no, thats not what they have stated the goal to be. They said they need more does killed in those WMUs, thats it. If they wanted percentages to be higher during bow season overall, youd see the same thing happen across the whole state.

 

You guys are trying to use false pretenses to prove your point.

 

 

 

BTW guys, who says MLs are the goal here? Maybe its a little more simple, like full inclusion of Crossbows. Just speculation on my part, but I do know they want full inclusion. They have made that statement in the past.

[phade]

Uhhhh, no, thats not what they have stated the goal to be. They said they need more does killed in those WMUs, thats it. If they wanted percentages to be higher during bow season overall, youd see the same thing happen across the whole state.

You guys are trying to use false pretenses to prove your point.

BTW guys, who says MLs are the goal here? Maybe its a little more simple, like full inclusion of Crossbows. Just speculation on my part, but I do know they want full inclusion. They have made that statement in the past.

Their long term strategy outlined the mz. Full inclusion wouldnt take this level of bs to manuever. The same people who wanted it 10 years ago (mz) are still the people pushing for it except most of the rational people who were in the dept have retired on leaving these people as the ones who can make the call more easily. Edited August 10, 2015 by phade

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Their long term strategy outlined the mz. Full inclusion wouldnt take this level of bs to manuever. The same people who wanted it 10 years ago (mz) are still the people pushing for it.

That is what is said in their 2012 management plan. Muzzleloader

[Nomad]

[quote name="WNYBuckHunter" post="393824" timestamp="1439227456

BTW guys, who says MLs are the goal here? Maybe its a little more simple, like full inclusion of Crossbows. Just speculation on my part, but I do know they want full inclusion. They have made that statement in the past.

Doc the dec says. Jeramy somebody from the dec was on Lonsberry today. He said this is a two year trial after that if doe numbers don't go up there will be a " new" ML season.

Lonsberry pressed him for that seasons dates, asking before or during Bow? , he played dumb , well perhaps he wasn't playing .... But he would not say either way. Which is telling to me.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Larry302

[phade]

Hurst is the states deer guru....

[orion]

Uhhhh, no, thats not what they have stated the goal to be. They said they need more does killed in those WMUs, thats it. If they wanted percentages to be higher during bow season overall, youd see the same thing happen across the whole state.

You guys are trying to use false pretenses to prove your point

Maybe I'm mistaken with thinking they want more doe shot in bow season.

So you think they put a two week antlerless season in archery to take more doe in gun season?

[mike rossi]

why do they want them dead during archery? If they told us why; maybe I could get on board.

 

 

 

 

There may be some explanations for that. Notice I said "may" - I am guessing, I am not putting words in the DEC's mouth, it is best just to ask them. .

 

The longer the deer is alive, the more crops and natural foods it is eating. And the longer it lives the more likely it could get hit by an auto. A deer is more likely to get hit by an auto in November than October to begin with. 

 

From a reproduction perspective or perspective of total population little matters if harvest is early or late, but considering the above factors, it can be argued that earlier is better...

 

 Like I said, ask the DEC... It is unlikely they would implement something so controversial just because of a reasonable, but untested, hypotheses, they might have some data or developed a model that bodes for the importance of early harvest. Listening to hunters as well as antis, the perception is the DEC lays things down without either testing or past experience, fact is they don't collect all those numbers for nothing, the numbers tell a story. Sometimes the story lies, but more often it is a fair guide. 

[The_Field_Ager]

So you think they put a two week antlerless season in archery to take more doe in gun season?

 

 

Who knows what they were thinking. Fact is, the numbers, tag allocation and general patterns of hunting, don't support this as a viable idea. A lot of Bow hunters will fill their tags, just not in October. As people have pointed out,the same number of deer will hit the deck in terms of what people need.

 

A false dichotomy has been created between bow and gunners.

Edited August 10, 2015 by Papist

[Five Seasons]

This will be my 8th season bowhunting. That's nothing compared to some of our vets. I've downright missed deer, hit limbs, been caught drawing. You name the newbie mistake and short of wounding and losing I've done it.

 

We all have.

 

2 years ago I decided 2.5 and up with every weapon. Last year I didn't get a buck, but I did stick a doe. Thankfully, the year before that 2.5 did show up and that's good as I didn't see another buck within range the remainder of the bow season. I realize I could not have shot one regardless, but he was taken the first weekend. With the new regs I miss an opportunity on what most consider a nice buck to take with the stick and string. It's hard to encourage some hunters to keep hunting when they don't achieve success. So think about what this does for our youth? Our immediate gratification needed youth...

 

[growalot]

A deer during that time is up and being moved by buck...or buck are up searching...so lets look at this  a moment...keep in mind many past hunter observations

 

When you have less doe buck will be on their feet chasing, fighting and the doe being harassed by more buck ...due to less doe will be on the run.....what do you then surmise would happen to the deer /car collision #'s? now as opposed to and stated for years by hunters this..

 

The buck aren't moving ...there is no need to BECAUSE....There is an abundant # of doe and there is no need to go hunting for them...there are less bucks chasing bucks territory fights...doe being constantly harassed and moving.

 

Lets talk crop damage and forestry The forests ppls private lands are being select cut causing the remaining trees to grow healthy WIDE canopies that....that's right block forest floor from the sun...add to that shock.yep ppl never having delt with loggers become shocked at what their woods look like. That then delays future logging...also cash is king and ppl are holding off... so please it's not all deer..and when one considers the number of ppl out there now planting a collective thousands of acres in all corners of the state...coupled with what farmers spray their crops with...I thinks they do protest too much. Let me remind all again deer are not the only animals eating crops...they just are leaving easier seen evidence in tracks and shite..besides being readily visible...ever try finding a ground hog or rabbit in a clover, bean,pea field?

[dbHunterNY]

Uhhhh, no, thats not what they have stated the goal to be. They said they need more does killed in those WMUs, thats it. If they wanted percentages to be higher during bow season overall, youd see the same thing happen across the whole state.

 

You guys are trying to use false pretenses to prove your point.

 

 

 

BTW guys, who says MLs are the goal here? Maybe its a little more simple, like full inclusion of Crossbows. Just speculation on my part, but I do know they want full inclusion. They have made that statement in the past.

 

hunter recruitment into early bow season would increase and more doe taken.  makes sense.  I know gun only hunters who would make the jump that otherwise wouldn't if crossbows had full inclusion.

[growalot]

BTW Stubby and Orion ...are you going to answer my previous question ?