CrossBow Hunters!Please sign this petition! "Allow New York State hunters to use crossbows the entire archery season."

[eleroy91xx]

Please Sign This Petition! Thanks!

 

https://www.change.org/p/allow-new-york-state-hunters-to-use-crossbows-the-entire-archery-season

[Larry]

it's going to happen next year

[nyslowhand]

Last I knew there were two proposed bills that addressed this and were hung-up in the Enviro sub-committee when the legislature recessed for summer break. Should be addressed when they reconvene, if not already. Anyone hear differently??

[LI OUTDOORSMAN]

I feel with in the next 5 years crossbows will be a non issue in NY and allowed during any part of the season...Season's open....choose your weapon!

[Larry]

its in for 2016

[First-light]

Crossbow and 1 buck rule...

[wolc123]

I will believe that when I see it. That little group of dedicated, "elitist" bowhunters is still fighting to keep them out and not showing that they are ready to "roll-over" yet. Time will eventually catch up to them though, and then they will want to pick up a crossbow and extend their own archery hunting years a bit. I don't hate those hunters, I love them just like all the rest. I just hate their action of trying to keep such an effective weapon out of our hands in archery season. There is nothing cool about discriminating against the elderly, women, children, and the disabled.

[Uptown Redneck]

WOLC123, I have taken up the crossbow because after having shoulder surgery I simply am unable to pull the weight of a bow any longer

[Jaeger]

I've seen the progression from longbows/recurves to predominantly compounds in a special season, the bow season, originally established during the longbow/recurve era.

 

I see no reason why either the season goes back to stick bows (longbows/recurves) or progresses to include all mechanically assisted bow "MAC"'s (compounds/cross-bows).

 

However, as one who holds lifetime bowhunting privlege, and has and hunts with longbows, recurves, a compound and a cross-bow, I do believe that us cross-bow hunters should have to take the proper full bowhunter safety course.

 

Being able to hunt with a cross bow with nothing more than reading a few paragraphs in the regs book or site and buying a muzzleloader tags does not seem correct to me.

 

It still shoots a broadhead, and that makes the entire hunt and recovery much closer to bow hunting than rifle/shotgun/muzzleloader hunting.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Jaeger

[Jaeger]

I will believe that when I see it. That little group of dedicated, "elitist" bowhunters is still fighting to keep them out and not showing that they are ready to "roll-over" yet. Time will eventually catch up to them though, and then they will want to pick up a crossbow and extend their own archery hunting years a bit. I don't hate those hunters, I love them just like all the rest. I just hate their action of trying to keep such an effective weapon out of our hands in archery season. There is nothing cool about discriminating against the elderly, women, children, and the disabled.

 

What would have happened I wonder if the longbow and recurve bow hunters had succeded in keeping those modern, mechanical compound bows out of the "traditional/primitive weapon archery season" back in the '70's.

 

Maybe the compound bow hunters should think about that.  

 

And that was back when compounds were shot with fingers or tabs, not releases with triggers.

 

I think the problem is that most compound bow hunters today are too young to remember it, or have it matter to them.

 

Jaeger

Edited September 5, 2015 by Jaeger

[Doc]

What would have happened I wonder if the longbow and recurve bow hunters had succeded in keeping those modern, mechanical compound bows out of the "traditional/primitive weapon archery season" back in the '70's.

 

Maybe the compound bow hunters should think about that.  

 

And that was back when compounds were shot with fingers or tabs, not releases with triggers.

 

I think the problem is that most compound bow hunters today are too young to remember it, or have it matter to them.

 

Jaeger

The answer to your question I guess is that bow season would still clearly be bow season with all the original challenges that it was created for.

 

I was there during that controversy, and eventually I came over to the compound side. But I remember that back then the longbow/recurve guys were saying that the inclusion of compounds would set the precedent for stuffing more and more different things into the bow season. They said that the definition of bow season would have very little meaning anymore. One thing would set the precedent for the next until there was no real need to have a special season for bowhunting. And by golly as it turns out, they were absolutely correct. Now we see guns stirred in with bows, and indeed the uniqueness of bowhunting with it's special requirements has been diluted to the point where the DEC feels quite comfortable recommending the inclusion of muzzleloaders. Now bowseason is looked at as the catch-all season. If you don't know where to put something, dump it in bowseason. Big surprise? .... Not to me, and I guess it wouldn't be a big surprise to the old-timers who were against heading down this trail with the compound.

 

Your last sentence tells the whole story .... "most compound bow hunters today are too young to remember it, or have it matter to them."

[Jaeger]

And, while not applicable in this thread, the same thing happened with the other primitive weapons season.  The muzzleloader season  back when they were all side hammer caplocks and flintlocks.

 

Now, smokeless powder, bolt opening, scope sighted, sabot filled, front loading single shots are legal in that season.

 

Don't know any answers, but I do believe it will not be set back to primitive weapons in either.  The only logical future end result that I can see is a 2 type season format, broadhead or bullet seasons.

 

Compressed air, multi-shot cross-bow anyone?  Oh wait, I think I just saw one in that movie "Van Helsing"!  Ha!!

 

I am also old enough to know tha for the most part the word "progress" is a dirty word.  God, I'm getting old!

[Doc]

The only logical future end result that I can see is a 2 type season format, broadhead or bullet seasons.

But even that is not a direction that the DEC seems to want to go as they continue to march toward filling bow season with as efficient a set of deer harvesting weapons as possible. They are focused on having the ability to cut deer herds as much as the political pressures demand regardless of what the season is called. They are not interested in setting up or safeguarding seasons that feature challenge. They want deer seasons that are focused on efficiently eliminating population. To them, anything else is a waste. Seriously ..... I don't know any other way to interpret all the moves that they have made lately.

[Jaeger]

But even that is not a direction that the DEC seems to want to go as they continue to march toward filling bow season with as efficient a set of deer harvesting weapons as possible. They are focused on having the ability to cut deer herds as much as the political pressures demand regardless of what the season is called. They are not interested in setting up or safeguarding seasons that feature challenge. They want deer seasons that are focused on efficiently eliminating population. To them, anything else is a waste. Seriously ..... I don't know any other way to interpret all the moves that they have made lately.

I agree completely.  Efficiency and political pressures not challange is their focus.

[wolc123]

Everyone is different, that's what keeps life interesting.  Personally, I want to use the most effective weapon, at reasonable cost, for killing deer in any season.   There is a huge advantage in the "silence" of a bow or crossbow, but to say they are comparable in performance on deer is ludicrous.  I would estimate that a modern crossbow has a 10X advantage over a conventional compound bow, especially on does.  I really cant see what anyone has to gain by pretending they are about equal in performance.  The truth will set you free.   Some folks are still in the dark ages about how far the crossbows have came recently.  Just last week I saw someone mention lugging around a 10-12 pound crossbow.  Mine weighs a shade over 6 pounds and handles offhand almost as well as my Ruger 10/22 carbine rifle.   

 

Some folks are into challenging themselves and even go for longbows and recurves.  They remind me of the guy a few months ago on here who owned a .308, but wanted to try his .22/250 on deer.  I support their right to use those weapons if they want, even though I think it shows a lack of respect for the deer.  Heck, I even used a 1-1/4" lock-blade pen-knife to dispatch a "road-kill" doe one time, but it was the only weapon I had at the time, when she suddenly came back to life.  They deserve to be killed as efficiently as possible in my humble opinion.  I also don't practice "catch and release" fishing for the same reason.  I see that as the senseless maiming of a fine food source.  I stop fishing after catching my limit of good eating-sized fish.  I do support the right of others to do it however and I don't expect them to have the same standards as myself.  

    

[WNYBuckHunter]

Everyone is different, that's what keeps life interesting.  Personally, I want to use the most effective weapon, at reasonable cost, for killing deer in any season.   There is a huge advantage in the "silence" of a bow or crossbow, but to say they are comparable in performance on deer is ludicrous.  I would estimate that a modern crossbow has a 10X advantage over a conventional compound bow, especially on does.  I really cant see what anyone has to gain by pretending they are about equal in performance.  The truth will set you free.   Some folks are still in the dark ages about how far the crossbows have came recently.  Just last week I saw someone mention lugging around a 10-12 pound crossbow.  Mine weighs a shade over 6 pounds and handles offhand almost as well as my Ruger 10/22 carbine rifle.   

 

Some folks are into challenging themselves and even go for longbows and recurves.  They remind me of the guy a few months ago on here who owned a .308, but wanted to try his .22/250 on deer.  I support their right to use those weapons if they want, even though I think it shows a lack of respect for the deer.  Heck, I even used a 1-1/4" lock-blade pen-knife to dispatch a "road-kill" doe one time, but it was the only weapon I had at the time, when she suddenly came back to life.  They deserve to be killed as efficiently as possible in my humble opinion.  I also don't practice "catch and release" fishing for the same reason.  I see that as the senseless maiming of a fine food source.  I stop fishing after catching my limit of good eating-sized fish.  I do support the right of others to do it however and I don't expect them to have the same standards as myself.  

 

How about you back up your claims for once? Other than the ability to take a rest easier, and the fact that its pre-cocked, lets see some proof that they are any better.

[phade]

10x better, too...

[wolc123]

The rest is big, so is the telescopic sight and so is not needing to draw or hold while drawn.    All that stuff adds up to an advantage for the crossbow.   You can prove that to yourself relatively cheap and easy by getting a $35 Crossman, 760 bb-gun with a scope on it and a set of 25 pound weights.   Take 10 shots from a good rest, using the scope, and measure the diameter of the group.   Next, remove the scope, Stand up and take the next 10 shots offhand using the open sights.  Prior to each of the offhand shots, curl one 25 lb weight with your right arm while lifting the other straight up with your left (reverse if you are left handed).  Hold them in position about 1 minute after each rep.   Next, measure the size of the two 10-shot groups.  You will get a smaller number for the rested/scoped group.   If you get 1" for that and 5" for the offhand group, that's a 5:1 advantage for the crossbow on "fixed" targets.

 

On "live" targets, the advantage is further multiplied by eliminating the need to draw with the "target" in close.  On deer or groups of deer, you can usually get away with the slow motion required to position a gun or crossbow, but not a fast motion required to draw a bow.   For a single deer, no big advantage to the crossbow, since you can usually wait for that single set of eyes to get behind a tree prior to making the draw.   That gets a lot tougher with does however as they are usually in groups, especially during archery season.   That is where the additional 2x multiplier comes in for the crossbow.   The math is easy:  5 x 2 = 10.     Your results may differ, but that's about where I got mine.  I used my compound and my crossbow for the 30 yard test part however, so I didn't need the weights.

 

If you do get that bb gun, you can even use it for most of your marksmanship work for crossbow hunting.  It will save you lots of money on bolts and wear and tear on equipment.    Both are subsonic and have similar trajectories.  With a multi-pump model like the 760, you can almost match the trajectories exactly, even tuning it for different speed crossbows and bolt weights.   You can even strap a little weight to the front of the bb-gun for greater realism, especially if "offhand" shots are expected with your crossbow.  From a rest, I don't notice much difference between my un-weighted bb-gun and 6 pound crossbow.  Good luck hunting this fall.                

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

So, re-read what I asked and try again.

[SteveB]

He can't answer - he either doesn't hunt or is so bad at it he has to make up stuff.

[wolc123]

Are you guy's against full inclusion?   If so, please explain why.   

[shawnhu]

Comparing a crossbow to an air gun... He must be on crack.

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[jjb4900]

Are you guy's against full inclusion?   If so, please explain why.   

I have no problem with the guy who would use it and hunt in the same way they would bow hunt with their other archery gear....it's the clowns who proclaim it to be the best thing since sliced bread that make me leery...... taking shots that they aren't sure they can make, like you, and thanking god that it turned out well. If guys used it and hunted like the archery season was meant for, no problem....but, you're the poster boy for why some guys hate it.....I'm willing to bet that you make most legit crossbow advocates cringe when they read the crap you spew.....you just sound like a lazy guy who wants an easier way to kill a deer.

Edited September 10, 2015 by jjb4900

[WNYBuckHunter]

Are you guy's against full inclusion?   If so, please explain why.   

 

no

[wolc123]

It sounds like you want it to be more difficult to kill deer JJ.  How does that show them respect?  I was about 90% sure I could make the shot in question.  Do you only shoot when you are 100% sure?  That happened to be the last day I could hunt during archery season last fall, which played a big part in my willingness to take the 10% risk.   Earlier in the season, I wouldn't take a shot with less than about 95% certainty.  

 

Ironically, of the 100 or so deer I have killed over the last 30 some years, I was only 100% sure of one of the shots.   My slug-gun misfired on that one and the big doe got away.   Like always, God had the final say, not myself.  Maybe she will produce a big buck for me one day, hopefully this season.   Good luck to you hunting this fall.  Consider some of that special reading material I suggested when it gets a little slow up there in the stand. 

 

I cant think of many pursuits that put us in better position to reap God's blessings than hunting and fishing.   My standing with him must still be ok based on limit catches of smallmouth bass every day over this past holiday weekend (20 minutes Sat, 2 hours Sun, 1 hour Mon).  It was even sweeter watching my daughter land a big one off the dock one evening.  

 

On the way home from work today, I asked Him to let me kill a buck this fall that would be a new NY state record.  It is about time for someone to knock Roosevelt Lucky off that pedestal.  If you are going to ask for something, and The Lord has shown a history of delivering, why not make it big?.             

Edited September 12, 2015 by wolc123