CrossBow Hunters!Please sign this petition! "Allow New York State hunters to use crossbows the entire archery season."

[jjb4900]

It sounds like you want it to be more difficult to kill deer JJ.  How does that show them respect?  I was about 90% sure I could make the shot in question.  Do you only shoot when you are 100% sure?  That happened to be the last day I could hunt during archery season last fall, which played a big part in my willingness to take the 10% risk.   Earlier in the season, I wouldn't take a shot with less than about 95% certainty.  

 

Ironically, of the 100 or so deer I have killed over the last 30 some years, I was only 100% sure of one of the shots.   My slug-gun misfired on that one and the big doe got away.   Like always, God had the final say, not myself.  Maybe she will produce a big buck for me one day, hopefully this season.   Good luck to you hunting this fall.  Consider some of that special reading material I suggested when it gets a little slow up there in the stand. 

 

I cant think of many pursuits that put us in better position to reap God's blessings than hunting and fishing.   My standing with him must still be ok based on limit catches of smallmouth bass every day over this past holiday weekend (20 minutes Sat, 2 hours Sun, 1 hour Mon).  It was even sweeter watching my daughter land a big one off the dock one evening.  

 

On the way home from work today, I asked Him to let me kill a buck this fall that would be a new NY state record.  It is about time for someone to knock Roosevelt Lucky off that pedestal.  If you are going to ask for something, and The Lord has shown a history of delivering, why not make it big?.             

hahaha...if I was gonna ask JC to do something big, it certainly would have nothing to do with killing an animal.......but if that's what you use him for, more power to you......oh, and I've never had any difficulty killing deer with any weapon...I don't take risky shots no matter how early or late in the season, you? apparently not so much....and yes, I bow hunt for the challenge of getting close to a deer, not spraying and praying like yourself.........you should quit while you're ahead because each time you make a statement you make yourself sound like even more of a jaboney.

[wolc123]

I can't quit while I am ahead or I would loose the race. I will stay on the high road. You can keep up the name calling if you like. That is the first time I heard that last one, but it does have a cool ring to it. Have you got anything else?

[SteveB]

Yep - have ole JC get you a deer instead of something like ending children's cancer.

That's a high road?

Nice.

[wolc123]

You are on the low road when you don't accept that He can and will do anything for those who accept Him. As far as the "petty stuff" like killing a deer, catching some fish, or even getting a little more "free" wine to drink, there are examples right in the Gospels of Him helping His friends with stuff like that. The good news is, it is never too late to get yourself onto the high road.

God is on a different plane than man, and words like "instead" are not in His vocabulary. One of the biggest "fringe benefits" of being a Christian is accepting all the "free stuff" He blesses us with. Hunters and Fisherman are very well positioned for that. I know I don't deserve any of the hundred or so deer and many thousands of fish He has blessed me with over the years. He gets the better end of that deal as it is better to give than to receive. I often get a little taste of that when I catch enough fish to feed the neighbors or get enough venison to give some to friends.

Of course all those "fringe benefits" are good, but nothing compared to the big prize that awaits - getting to spend forever up in heaven with Him and your friends & family who also believe. Sometimes I feel like I am in heaven already here in NY when the hunting and fishing is especially good, but I am sure it is nothing compared to what awaits in The "happy hunting ground".

Edited September 12, 2015 by wolc123

[WNYBuckHunter]

 

On the way home from work today, I asked Him to let me kill a buck this fall that would be a new NY state record.  It is about time for someone to knock Roosevelt Lucky off that pedestal.  If you are going to ask for something, and The Lord has shown a history of delivering, why not make it big?.             

 

Sounds like greed to me. How Christian of you.

[SteveB]

So deer for you over kids cancer - nice.

[PREDATE]

There is a huge advantage in the "silence" of a bow or crossbow, but to say they are comparable in performance on deer is ludicrous.  I would estimate that a modern crossbow has a 10X advantage over a conventional compound bow, especially on does.  I really cant see what anyone has to gain by pretending they are about equal in performance.   

 

It is no news that crossbows aren't the superior weapon. Crossbows generally have a shorter powerstroke than a compound; hence the reason for a 125-225lb draw weight oppose to a 70lb compound. Now do these hefty draw weights mean that a crossbow has a longer effective range than a compound? Negatory. Ya see, shorter bolts need longer offset or helical vanes to be able to stabilize the bolt. Longer vanes equal more drag so there goes your laser trajectory. Lets not forget to mention the need for crossbows to be drawn perfectly straight to ensure accuracy and that a string variance of 1/4 inch on either side of the triggers string latch can cause the bolt to shoot off center by 4 inches at 20 yds.

 

..and what is your hang up on does being hard to kill? Do you realize how many doe(out of groups of 5/6 mind you) that I could kill every season? I'm starting to believe that you've never sat in a treestand and if I'm right, may I suggest you sit in an oak tree loaded with acorns. I hear the deer love em!

[Buckmaster7600]

Living in NC for 8 years and being able to Xbow hunt I got one as soon as I got there I killed ALOT of deer with it given the plethora of tags you get in eastern NC. Now that I'm back in NY I have not shot my Xbox in the 2 years I have been home! Not bragging or anything but I would be willing to bet I have more hunting experience than most if not all on here with a Xbow and in my experience the few advantages of a Xbow are not worth the drawbacks. I feel 100% more confident shooting a deer at 60 yds with my verticle bow than with a Xbow. Just my .02$ I am not at all against them they are just not for me. To say a Xbow is 100# better is just ludicrous of a picnic table in your back yard I can see where someone would get the idea.

[Billdogge]

Signed

[Skillet]

Signed.

[Critter4321]

I will believe that when I see it. That little group of dedicated, "elitist" bowhunters is still fighting to keep them out and not showing that they are ready to "roll-over" yet. Time will eventually catch up to them though, and then they will want to pick up a crossbow and extend their own archery hunting years a bit. I don't hate those hunters, I love them just like all the rest. I just hate their action of trying to keep such an effective weapon out of our hands in archery season. There is nothing cool about discriminating against the elderly, women, children, and the disabled.

 

seems you have hit the nail on the head time stands still for no one!!

[Jaeger]

Again, the argument against crossbows of it being "an easier way to kill a deer" was the exact argument made against the use of compound bows during the fight for their inclusion into archery season back in the late 70's.

 

Then longbows and mostly recurves where the driving force behind the establishment of a special and separete bow/archery deer seasons.

 

The compounds were let into/allowed in/rules change to permit in the archery season (against much opposition as being too easy) and now they are the standard.  That is a fact many of you are too young to acknowledge or too intractable to accept.

 

The old standard, the longbows and recurves are now looked down on by compound bow elitists as too old school and inaccurate/irresponsible and the crossbows are looked down on as too modern technological, too easy to use.

 

Compounds are merely a point in time on the archery, bow season time line.

 

There will come a day in the not too distant future where compounds will be looked down on as the old school inaccurate/irresponsible tool.   You're arguments like tons of deer are killed by compounds falls on deaf ears, tons were ethically taken with longbows/recurves before you.

 

Why do compound elitists think the bow evolution should stop at todays compound bows?  To them longbows/recurves are not good enough and crossbows too good.

 

They forget where they came from.

[Marion]

Again, the argument against crossbows of it being "an easier way to kill a deer" was the exact argument made against the use of compound bows during the fight for their inclusion into archery season back in the late 70's.

Then longbows and mostly recurves where the driving force behind the establishment of a special and separete bow/archery deer seasons.

The compounds were let into/allowed in/rules change to permit in the archery season (against much opposition as being too easy) and now they are the standard. That is a fact many of you are too young to acknowledge or too intractable to accept.

The old standard, the longbows and recurves are now looked down on by compound bow elitists as too old school and inaccurate/irresponsible and the crossbows are looked down on as too modern technological, too easy to use.

Compounds are merely a point in time on the archery, bow season time line.

There will come a day in the not too distant future where compounds will be looked down on as the old school inaccurate/irresponsible tool. You're arguments like tons of deer are killed by compounds falls on deaf ears, tons were ethically taken with longbows/recurves before you.

Why do compound elitists think the bow evolution should stop at todays compound bows? To them longbows/recurves are not good enough and crossbows too good.

They forget where they came from.

Excellent write up. That said, the issue I see with the argument is that even with a compound compared to a longbow, you still have to manually draw and hold the string back. With a crossbow you are using a rifle style where the string is held by a part of the crossbow requiring zero human strength to hold the string back. And that reason alone is enough for me to disagree with your point that a crossbow is merely the next evolution in bow technology especially considering both long bows as well as crossbows were around during medieval times.

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[SteveB]

Ground blinds, tree stands and high let off all but eliminate the "draw in the presence" arguement.

[Marion]

All my protests against a crossbow, I still signed. But I refuse to believe that they are the exact same as a compound.

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[Uncle Nicky]

All my protests against a crossbow, I still signed. But I refuse to believe that they are the exact same as a compound.

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I've been hunting with a crossbow over 10 years, so I think I know a little about them.

 

VERY similar to hunting with a compound, you are slinging an arrow at a fast speed, you NEED to make a perfect shot in the heart/lungs/liver or things will go terribly wrong. Effective range is the same, 40 yards at most unless you spend a lot of time practicing.

 

The upside I see is they are more accurate FOR GUYS OR GIRLS WHO DON'T PRACTICE. Also easier to get the drop on a deer, since you aren't using 2 hands and a lot of body motion to draw the string back.

 

Anyway, that's my experience. Oh, and by the way, petition signed.

[wolc123]

One thing I have not seen anyone acknowledge is that crossbows can easily be fired from a rest. Who fires a bow from a rest? Anyone who has ever fired a rifle from a rest and offhand should understand how much more accurate that makes your shot. If you lack that experience, compare the average scores of a high-school rifle team in the offhand and prone positions to get a taste of how much tighter those "rested" groups are.

What is cool about denying the use of a more accurate weapon? Do we want more wounded deer running around? I agree that it is equally as important to put the arrow in the proper location with a crossbow and a regular bow, and there is little difference between the two when they hit in the same spot. Hitting the "right" spot is just so much easier with a crossbow.

The ability to work from a rest is of primary importance, but not needing to draw or hold at draw also add up. Throw on a telescopic sight and there is absolutely no comparison in accuracy. I think saying a crossbow is 10X more accurate on deer is conservative when you add all that up. Because deer are easily frightened by the quick motion required to draw a bow, the crossbow advantage might drop to 5X on fixed targets.

I have yet to have any shot, in practice or at game, out of around 100 total shots taken, fall outside the conventionally accepted "pie-plate" diameter with my crossbow at ranges to 60 yards. I am no "Robin Hood" and it always took me months to attain that kind of accuracy at 30 yards with my compound. There was not a single "flyer" during those 100 crossbow shots. The only bolts I lost were one that missed a grouse head by about an inch, one my buck sheared with his leg after taking it thru the heart from 59 yards, and one that flew thru the center of my foam block target while I was unloading.

Speaking of flying thru foam targets, what a difference a "rag-bag" makes. I filled an old nylon seed bag with old sweatshirts and towels and it stops them bolts every time in less than 8", and they are real easy to pull out. Don't waste your money on them foam targets.

[SteveB]

Again with the 10X BS.

Was funny at 1st - just pathetic now.

[wolc123]

Maybe it would be less pathetic if I did the math for you and came up with some evidence you could look up yourself:

 

In "Successful Predator" by Mike Schoby, he states that the average hunter can hold a 2" group at 100 yards prone, and is lucky to hit the paper offhand.  A standard 100 yard paper target measures 21" x 21".   21 divided by 2 is a shade over 10, not including the extra area for the square shape, which adds even more difference.

Group diameter is an excepted standard for accuracy comparison.

    

 

Here is at least some evidence that, when fired from a rest, the 10X accuracy improvement over a conventional bow fired offhand may be at least in the ballpark. 

 

What evidence can you come up with showing they are not that much different?  Are you for or against full inclusion?  Do you like deer killed cleanly or sloppily?  Show me the math if you can.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by wolc123

[Jaeger]

One thing I have not seen anyone acknowledge is that crossbows can easily be fired from a rest. Who fires a bow from a rest? Anyone who has ever fired a rifle from a rest and offhand should understand how much more accurate that makes your shot. If you lack that experience, compare the average scores of a high-school rifle team in the offhand and prone positions to get a taste of how much tighter those "rested" groups are.

What is cool about denying the use of a more accurate weapon? Do we want more wounded deer running around? I agree that it is equally as important to put the arrow in the proper location with a crossbow and a regular bow, and there is little difference between the two when they hit in the same spot. Hitting the "right" spot is just so much easier with a crossbow.

The ability to work from a rest is of primary importance, but not needing to draw or hold at draw also add up. Throw on a telescopic sight and there is absolutely no comparison in accuracy. I think saying a crossbow is 10X more accurate on deer is conservative when you add all that up. Because deer are easily frightened by the quick motion required to draw a bow, the crossbow advantage might drop to 5X on fixed targets.

I have yet to have any shot, in practice or at game, out of around 100 total shots taken, fall outside the conventionally accepted "pie-plate" diameter with my crossbow at ranges to 60 yards. I am no "Robin Hood" and it always took me months to attain that kind of accuracy at 30 yards with my compound. There was not a single "flyer" during those 100 crossbow shots. The only bolts I lost were one that missed a grouse head by about an inch, one my buck sheared with his leg after taking it thru the heart from 59 yards, and one that flew thru the center of my foam block target while I was unloading.

Speaking of flying thru foam targets, what a difference a "rag-bag" makes. I filled an old nylon seed bag with old sweatshirts and towels and it stops them bolts every time in less than 8", and they are real easy to pull out. Don't waste your money on them foam targets.

Good advice on the "rag-bag" target, thanks.  My bolts go into the black block so deep I have to brace both feet against it to pull them out without risk of breaking the bolts.

[BigVal]

I think a compound has much more natural anchor point while shooting than a firearm. That said a crossbow might shoot more accurately while on a rest but I'd have a hard time believing 10x more accurately.

[wolc123]

Mine almost always buried the bolts right up to the fletching in the foam block, with just the one going right thru.   To pull them, I used to put a piece of wood 2x12 on the ground and push the tips against that to start the bolts back out.  They still pulled out hard, a real pain and slow-down during practice.   The "rag bag" is a dream in comparison, with virtually no effort to pull the bolts.  Plus, all you got to do is shake it up occasionally to keep one section from wearing out.   

[Flythrower]

I do not hunt with a crossbow, but my father is to the point where he has trouble pulling back on a compound. If he could hunt with me fulltime during all archery season, I am all for it.

 

He has a crossbow and I shot it the other day to practice. I get why people like them, but I am much more happy shooting my compound. Also, they seem awfully loud. I can see a lot of high shots on does when they jump that loud string, especially from the 50 yards that people will be lobbing bolts at thinking they can take Superman shots.

[The_Field_Ager]

If muzzle loaders or any other object that goes boom enters Bow season, I will be hanging up the old bow for the last time and taking my shotgun or rifle afield. There will be no point to Bow if the local Jim-Bobs are lighting things up with their boom sticks from dawn till dusk.

 

Crossbows are quiet. I have no issue with them. Bow season is all about silence and calm and patterning deer. Add guns of any description and that all goes away.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Papist

[The_Field_Ager]

I can see a lot of high shots on does when they jump that loud string, especially from the 50 yards that people will be lobbing bolts at thinking they can take Superman shots.

 

 

This happens with compound too. I was recently having a conversation with a friend in Central NY . He knows a lot of a people who have lost bucks and does because they are lobbing arrows too far in their desperation to kill a deer and are making terrible shots.

 

It's all about attitude with any weapon. If it stinks, your shots will likely stink too.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Papist