Rescinding antlerless in early bow in 8n

[growalot]

Did they not just give their operating system an over haul last year or the year before...Was that not the reason for all the delays and misprinted tags?...If it isn't this system I'm referencing, what system needs to be up graded to do this? When they go to up grade their systems do they never look to future possible changes and incorporate into the system easy up grade possibilities?

Or are these "upgrades" based on what Albany "fat cat" has a friend whose company needs some work and a favor owed at the time...Cynical much, yes siree, I have enough years of observation behind me to own  my cynicism....

Edited August 9, 2016 by growalot

[Larry]

Dmp’s can be used at any time from October 1^st till the last day of the ML season. So I can’t see why is of you are saying that permits aren’t available when needed. You can get 2 8n’s now use them in October then on November 1^st get 2 more and use them. If you can fill 4 dump’s and need more have someone transfer 2 over to you.  

[WNYBuckHunter]

8 minutes ago, Larry said:

Dmp’s can be used at any time from October 1^st till the last day of the ML season. So I can’t see why is of you are saying that permits aren’t available when needed. You can get 2 8n’s now use them in October then on November 1^st get 2 more and use them. If you can fill 4 dump’s and need more have someone transfer 2 over to you.  

Some people would like to have all 4 DMPs before Nov 1st. I wouldnt be transferring any of my DMPs to anyone that early in the season.

[Larry]

I just wonder how many guys can fill 2 doe tags and their bow tag and possibly their bow/ml doe tag in the month of October.

[The_Real_TCIII]

I just wonder how many guys can fill 2 doe tags and their bow tag and possibly their bow/ml doe tag in the month of October.

How could you not with the tens of thousands of does we have to wade through just to get to our stands in those WMUs??


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[moog5050]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

I just wonder how many guys can fill 2 doe tags and their bow tag and possibly their bow/ml doe tag in the month of October.

I would bet that the guys I hunt with all could fill 4 does tags by Nov. 1.  We never do, but it would be possible if any of them wanted to do that much butchering in Oct. and be left with no doe tags before Nov. 1.  I realize that not everyone has the benefit of the doe a-plenty lands we hunt, but I am sure there are some on this site that do.  Even if tags were more readily available, I doubt I would kill more doe or any sooner, but it sounds like some would and why not take the "be left with no doe tags" problem out of the equation.

Edited August 9, 2016 by moog5050

[growalot]

Larry No many of us do not get 2 for 8n Oct 1st...Camp is in 8X and they are on the lower side for getting tags...so 8X is always my first choice in case the guys are turned down, or I bow hunt there and yes I have filled one at camp and one here and a buck tag in past years......But I like bow over gun and when I fill my doe tag I would like to keep hunting if I fill my bow tag...and no I do not always get a ML..so Just give me those 2 tags before Nov1st...

I take plenty of deer with my bow both buck and doe...though not always do I take the doe pics nor keep them all when cleaning the storage....but my first deer each years is usually doe or two if I have the room or someone to take it or I want Wilsons snack sticks...which BTW you have to get the deer in very early to get it back early...

could have posted more but they aren't labeled well and I have work to do...

[DirtTime]

8 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

You can already do that

You misread what I said:

Quote

Hows this for an idea. During the "Regular Season" you can use a compound, trad bow, crossbow, ML, rifle and shotgun. Maybe the gun hunters should start protesting that seeing there's and early and late bow and ML season, that you can't use a a bow or ML in the "gun" season.

 

 

The thing I see, and I'm sorry, is there seems to be no common ground from bow hunters. There's no give by many. They want it all about them and that's not fair IMO. Two seasons ago I was bow hunting in the regular season because all I had was a bow. A couple state lands I hunted the gun hunters didn't give me the stink eye because they say me walk in or out with a bow. But, many bow hunters don't want even allow a crossbow into the whole of their season.

 

The bottom line is to reduce doe numbers they have to be killed. Use a trad bow, a compound, a crossbow, a rifle, a shotgun, or a ML. Use w/e you want that's legal. We either do our part or we don't. I have tags for 2 doe and my either or tag. Trust me, I have a goal for this season, doe early, try for a good buck for a while, then fill up the rest of the freezer with w/e walks in from of me I have tags left for.

Every year people want things just so. That's never going to happen. There will never be a peace and harmony between DEC and hunters.

[G-Man]

19 hours ago, ....rob said:

Hows this for an idea. During the "Regular Season" you can use a compound, trad bow, crossbow, ML, rifle and shotgun. Maybe the gun hunters should start protesting that seeing there's and early and late bow and ML season, that you can't use a a bow or ML in the "gun" season.

You can use any legal implement during the regular season, I know a few that bowhunters the whole regular season as well as late muzzleloader/bow.

[G-Man]

 Why isn't early season the time to remove doe? That is an antiquated idea . Of a doe gonna bring a buck by during rut.. 

In over populated areas the best idea is to reach your doe removal quota early.less doe means more intense searching by bucks for a receptive doe. When there are a lot and buck numbers are small many do not get bred and cycle again into heat. Causing bucks more weight loss and stress.

Births become spread out and development of fawns shows the following year as sub par bucks(antler wise) and lighter weight deer in general.

Those Deer are also under weight going into a high stress period of winter and late spring. Making them of higher risk for winter kill. 

Weather becomes a factor for hunters in late season as snow deepens and holidays approach meaning less time and numbers of hunters afield. That causes the population to keep expanding as now does that were let go so the could be taken later on tags aren't taken and the problem continues....

[G-Man]

Grow,

yes it would be great if you could get those extra tags and use them Oct 1 esp if they have a doe only 2 week period. Perhaps they should issue you 2 tags immediately for that area of doe only if selected for one.

I still disagree with boycotting the season because you can't take a buck there those two weeks. They should of issued extra tags immediately, or if you filled your either sex tag with a doe ,given you another buck tag for bow. (But that's pretty much the late bow muzzleloader tag) but they asked bow hunters to try and do a job and got slapped in the face.. instead of hunters acting like conservationists taking on the role of predator that is needed

[growalot]

Still you don't get why many of us boycotted ...and I am actually tired of explaining to you...because...You prefer to assume the boycott was only due to the no buck...We couldn't possible have a more important logical reason for showing the DEC our displeasure in a faulty ill planned scheme.  That is the late ML if you buy one...I do not always buy one...Now wouldn't it have been grand if they had actually thought that plan out and offered a buck TAG FOR THOSE WILLING TO USE THERE'S EITHER OR...BUT ALAS THERES MY POINT YET AGAIN...THEY did not...WHAT THEY DID WAS  WARN US...FILL THE QUOTA(WITH OUT TAGS) OR YOU'LL SEE GUNS IN YOUR SEASON...NOW THAT IS WHAT THEY DID...wHO GOT SLAPED IN THE FACE?....HHHMMMMM...sorry cap loc

Edited August 9, 2016 by growalot

[G-Man]

4 hours ago, Larry said:

I just wonder how many guys can fill 2 doe tags and their bow tag and possibly their bow/ml doe tag in the month of October.

I've done it several times. More if you count 1st week of nov.

[G-Man]

4 minutes ago, growalot said:

Still you don't get why many of us boycotted ...and I am actually tired of explaining to you...because...You prefer to assume the boycott was only due to the no buck...We couldn't possible have a more important logical reason for showing the DEC our displeasure in a faulty ill planned scheme.  That is the late ML if you buy one...I do not always buy one...Now wouldn't it have been grand if they had actually thought that plan out and offered a buck TAG FOR THOSE WILLING TO USE THERE'S EITHER OR...BUT ALAS THERES MY POINT YET AGAIN...THEY did not...WHAT THEY DID WAS  WARN US...FILL THE QUOTA(WITH OUT TAGS) OR YOU'LL SEE GUNS IN YOUR SEASON...NOW THAT IS WHAT THEY DID...wHO GOT SLAPED IN THE FACE?....HHHMMMMM...sorry cap loc

You could of asked for more tags I would.of gladly went and got one for your doe only area as I only hunt at my home now and 2 deer is enough for me..  

I said they could of done things differently yes, but did anyone talk to them about it.. no boycott was it.. and neither side benefited.  You boycotted the system.. and gave no fix to them so this year they drop it to hope someone kills deer.. the voice of those that hunt that area should of sent the message give us the bonus tags Oct. 1 and we will fill them.. instead everyone was silent like a 2 year old plotting revenge. I'll boycott again the rallying cry.. instead of let's try this.. that's the issue I have ...

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm just hoping that when they make the early antlerless muzzleloader season that they make it for the last week of September, then I'll make the drive down to lend a helping hand.


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[stoneam2006]

I guess I'll just take the call and come up with my spotlight and shoot them and let them lay....o but that's not ethical or legal... .that's what there going to do they will bring in snipers eventually and shoot them when ever and where ever they want including private land of they need to.

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[Rockspek]

Ok thanks for answering the question.  I'm out...of this thread

[growalot]

G-Man, why is it your unable to stop assuming...I and I know several that did e-mail them. When you can remove that " thorn " you have in your paw,as it were.....perhaps you'll be able to discuss this with out throwing out accusations.

[DirtTime]

3 hours ago, G-Man said:

You can use any legal implement during the regular season, I know a few that bowhunters the whole regular season as well as late muzzleloader/bow.

That's my point. Maybe the gun only hunters should start complaining about that. One more time I will try and explain this ( please pay attention ( sorry for sarcasm ) ):

You can use any legal weapon in the regular season, AKA, the 'gun' season. Maybe gun hunters should start saying that since the bow and ML crowd have an early and late season, we don't want bows ( of any sort ), or muzzle loaders in our season. Shotguns and rifles only. How would that fly?

[G-Man]

I don't think it would bother most people use the more efficient weapon

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[fasteddie]

I certainly wouldn't use my bow during gun season . Especially when I am seeing deer 40 - 50 yards out during bow season . 

[dbHunterNY]

On ‎8‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 8:17 PM, SteveB said:

The impact is the same for herd numbers the following year whether you kill the doe before or after she gets pregnant. 

I like your response but your quoting skills I think need some work.

[stubby68]

13 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I never said it wasnt effective, I said its not the MOST effective. Thats the point you are missing out on. Im not saying cut gun season down, Im saying that if any weapon's primary season should be used specifically to knock down the doe numbers in an area, that it should be the MOST effective one, not the least effective one. The simple fact is, guns are far more effective at killing numbers of deer than bows are. The timing of when you kill does is not important when it comes to population control, so who cares when I shoot my does.

Heres the other fact you are missing, the vast majority of bow hunters gun hunt as well. I know of very few that stick to bow only and only hunt for bucks.

 

Id have to say that I know more gun only hunters that only hunt for bucks than bow only hunters that hunt only for bucks. Your "Trophy Hunter" stigma that you attach to bow hunters is kind of silly really.

                 You said going to a spot to much cuts down on your chance of getting a buck. Thats sounds like you are concerned with killing bucks not does.

                 You also said take 2 weeks of gun season and make that doe only. That means cur gun season.

                  What you are not saying is that in other states the bow hunters do very well at keeping the doe in check. Most other states haveing a gun season that is only a few days and bow season being much longer. Making the bow the main weapon used. Why does it work for other states but can not in NY?

                   As I have already said it is the hunter who refuses to shoot doe with there bow that is inaffective not the weapon.

                   Ever notice how bow hunters always say they are bow hunters that use guns as well. You think of yourselves as bow hunters useing guns not just hunters. Youbseperate yourselves from others. When I hunted with bow I also hunted with gun I called myself a hunter. Now I hunt only with gun and still say I am a hunter. I do not refer to myself as a gun hunter and I have never heard another gun only hunter say they are a gun hunter. Bow hunters make a point of saying I am a bow hunter never just a hunter.

                   Trophy hunter stigma is silly? How many times in this and every other thread on the antlerless rule have bow hunters said they would not hunt where they could not kill a buck?  How many times have they said they kill does but only in gun season because they hunt bucks in bow season? Not saying names but how many guys on here have said they do not shoot does any time they only want bucks? How many times have bow hunters said it does not matter when they shoot does and that they kill plenty during gun season? Well if it does not matter when you kill does then why not kill them during bow season. Oh wait that might screw up my chance at a big buck.

        All of this leads to the trophy hunter stigma that you give yourselves.

                

                      

[dbHunterNY]

9 hours ago, Larry said:

I just wonder how many guys can fill 2 doe tags and their bow tag and possibly their bow/ml doe tag in the month of October.

i'm not in one of those units but in WMU 4C where DMPs need preference points and you only get one if you do get one.  I could do it about every year.  if you have good ground and are willing in some of these units in question, you shouldn't ever be waiting for tags while watching groups of doe walk by.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

I guess I'll just take the call and come up with my spotlight and shoot them and let them lay....o but that's not ethical or legal... .that's what there going to do they will bring in snipers eventually and shoot them when ever and where ever they want including private land of they need to.

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I dont think so Lucy.......