deer lures

[gjs4]

I don't hunt with scents but for those of your pros that do CVS is selling tampons 500 for a $1 on sale- serious- no strings attached


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[Larry]

this was posted on outdoor life web cite

Can Urine-Based Deer Attractants Really Spread Chronic Wasting Disease?

by Craig Dougherty

19

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Photo by Charlie Alsheimer

Virginia’s recent decision to ban the use of natural deer urine when hunting or scouting has hunters asking: “What’s going on? I’ve been using deer urine since I was a kid.”

What’s going on is Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD), the killer deer disease that has worked its way through North America’s deer and elk herds. Wildlife agencies are taking steps to control the spread of CWD and outlawing deer urine attractants is one of those steps (Vermont has also banned it). 

Tracing the Spread
CWD was originally discovered in captured deer in Colorado in the 1960s. It was fist discovered in wild deer in 1981. It’s been with us ever since. The disease has now been found in 20 states (including Virginia) and two provinces and is commonly perceived to be the number one threat to deer herds today. Symptoms include: erratic behavior, a weakened condition, excessive saliva, dramatic weight loss, and extreme thirst. Stopping a CWD outbreak from spreading has proven next to impossible even though millions are spent on CWD containment.

CWD is believed to be caused by defective or rouge proteins called prions, which are thought to be passed from animal to animal. Prions attack the brain; it is always fatal. Infectious prions have been detected in the saliva, urine, and feces of diseased deer and some scientists believe CWD may be spread through contact with these liquids. That’s where the urine-based attractants come in.

The Urine Connection
Much of the deer urine used in attractants comes from commercial deer farms. The farms collect urine in catch pens with a grated floor that funnels deer waste into a receptacle. Multiple deer use these pens at the same time, comingling urine, feces, and even saliva. CWD is often associated with captive deer herds, which could be infected with CWD.

Captive deer herds are generally monitored for CWD by either state or federal agencies. Conscientious urine suppliers take numerous precautions to ensure their herds are CWD free, but there are no absolute guarantees that any given captive herd (or for that matter wild herd) will remain CWD free. Unfortunately, there is no real way of determining if the deer contributing the waste liquids are carriers of the disease until it is too late. 

“Prions are shed in the saliva, urine, and feces just months after a deer becomes infected," says Dr. Krysten L. Schuler, a wildlife disease ecologist at Cornell University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. "That deer will still look perfectly healthy and it can live for more than a year after it’s infected. That deer’s infected urine may be gathered at any time. The trouble with these prions is they bind to soil particles and can be taken up into plants. This allows prions to contaminate the environment for years after they are poured out of a bottle. There is no safe dose of prions.” 

She urges hunters, “not to risk contaminating your favorite hunting spot with a product that has the potential to introduce a disease into your deer herd. When it comes to CWD, prevention is the only proven strategy.” 

Unfortunately there is no viable way to test for prions in deer urine attractants, and we don’t know how long they can live in a bottle—or even if they can live in a bottle at all. I could find no documentation or research proving or disproving this.

Wait, Not So Fast
Dr. Nicholas J. Haley (DVN, PhD) at the Department of Diagnostic Medicine and Pathobiology at Kansas State University, is not quite convinced that deer urine attractants are a serious CWD threat. He points out that infected urine is significantly less likely to transmit CWD than saliva and points to published and unpublished research that identifies a low level of infectivity in deer urine. He also points to mitigation efforts by deer farmers to ensure captive herds are CWD free. 

“That will go a long way toward reducing the risk to near zero,” Haley says. “Farms providing urine to the scent companies have very strict standards of health to uphold.”  That said, he states: “There is obviously some concern for the potential that scent urine may have some role, however small, in the introduction of CWD to new areas.” 

The scent industry is concerned, that much is certain. Phil Robinson, president of Tink’s Hunting Products states: “In all of our searching and communicating with experts, we are aware of only two published studies suggesting any possibility of a link between CWD and urine and CWD transmission. Both studies involved experimental and artificial/extreme protocols (injecting brains of mice with infected urine) that are clearly not present during normal use of a hunting scent”.

Sam Bergeson, Vice President of the Wildlife Research Center, points to the extreme protocols of the studies even though they identified a weak connection between CWD-infected urine and mice getting the disease when injected with it. 

“Obviously deer hunters are not going around injecting urine into deer brains with a hypodermic needle,” Bergeson says.

Industry leaders are quick to note that there are dollars and jobs at stake, and that hunters are being denied products they have been using for decades. The deer urine industry is asking: “Is there really sufficient data available to shut a whole industry down?” 

Terry Rohm of Tink’s put it this way: “If we had some real solid evidence, that would be another matter. No one wants to see CDW spreading all over the landscape. The whole hunting industry is deer driven. We need deer. But there is just nothing out there to justify taking deer urine attractants off the market.” 

Hunters seem to be unsure of where they stand on the urine-elimination issue. A recent poll of members of the newly formed National Deer Alliance (a national deer hunters group) indicated that a full 83 percent of respondents either did not know or did not believe urine based attractants are a real threat to wild deer. The same poll found that 42 percent of the respondents were against making them illegal.

Better Safe Than Sorry?
At this point, it may be safe to say what we don’t know about prions, deer urine, and the spread of CWD outweighs what we do know. 

However, the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries’ position is printed in black and white on its website: “The VDGIF is taking a pro-active approach on this issue and has banned possession and use until it is proven that prions are not spread in commercial deer urine products, rather than continue to risk introducing CWD to new areas until it is confirmed that urine attractants do spread prions.” 

A cautionary position to be sure, but wildlife agencies are the keepers of the public trust when it comes to wild places and wild things. Is it really surprising where Virginia officials (and before them Vermont officials) landed on this issue?
 
So where do you stand? Your state may very well be discussing a urine ban as you read this. Are you in the “pro-active, safe not sorry camp” or the “wait, not so fast” camp? 

Editor's note: Craig Dougherty is the Executive Director of the National Deer Alliance. 

[Nomad]

From one Larry to,another that's w-a-y to long for most here to read.

im good for two maybe three paragraphs and that's if it also has a pic of Biz's pool .

we're hunters , it's pretty much "look deer" , " look big deer, me must shoot ."

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yea they can spoon feed anyone who is dumb enough or uneducated enough to believe the agenda pushers. Facts are that CWD has never been found in whitetail deer urine and that is even in 100% tested positive node and brain tested deer.  Let alone the fact that the crap has been around for 60 years and has not caused any harm to any herds in any state.

One can believe what they read or they can read the facts. The 100% fact is that if that bill ever comes back off the table to ban the use and sale of urine in this state there is enough paperwork waiting that it would take years to work its way thru the system.

[Larry]

They are not going to be afraid of any law suit. The science on how CWD is transmitted is more than good. You would not want to see this go to court.

Remember this if they find one deer on a farm in this state with CWD. Not only will the state or Feds kill every deer on that farm. They will also kill every deer on every farm that farm sold deer to.

[Larry]

This is part of an article in SCI:

 CWD is an infectious brain disease that has been killing deer, elk and moose since it was first identified in captive mule deer in a Colorado research facility in 1967. CWD is classified as a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), and is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and scrapie in sheep. The infectious agents of CWD are classified as prions, which are infectious proteins without associated nucleic acids. CWD is incurable, always fatal, and now infects wild deer and elk in two Canadian provinces and 20 states; and captive herds in two provinces and 14 states. Scent manufacturers are now caught in the middle of this debate. Wildlife agencies would rather prevent the disease than try to manage it once it arrives. Some manufacturers want to work with states, but regulations are variable. There are still also many unknowns about CWD and the risks of transmission and there is no inexpensive way to test live animals for CWD.

[DirtTime]

Good lord! Can someone answer my apple juice question?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, Larry said:

This is part of an article in SCI:

 CWD is an infectious brain disease that has been killing deer, elk and moose since it was first identified in captive mule deer in a Colorado research facility in 1967. CWD is classified as a transmissible spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), and is similar to mad cow disease in cattle and scrapie in sheep. The infectious agents of CWD are classified as prions, which are infectious proteins without associated nucleic acids. CWD is incurable, always fatal, and now infects wild deer and elk in two Canadian provinces and 20 states; and captive herds in two provinces and 14 states. Scent manufacturers are now caught in the middle of this debate. Wildlife agencies would rather prevent the disease than try to manage it once it arrives. Some manufacturers want to work with states, but regulations are variable. There are still also many unknowns about CWD and the risks of transmission and there is no inexpensive way to test live animals for CWD.

Again a bunch of bull...We are live testing our deer very cheap on both ends of the deer. The live tests are 85-87% accurate compared to the Tb we have to do that is only in the 70's.  Just more outdated material off the internet.

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, ....rob said:

Good lord! Can someone answer my apple juice question?

I believe its actually illegal. I think i read somewhere that food based attractants or attractants that encourage eating of what it is sprayed on is illegal. 

[Larry]

I like cider not apple juice!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 minute ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I believe its actually illegal. I think i read somewhere that food based attractants or attractants that encourage eating of what it is sprayed on is illegal. 

I would guess Yes..prob goes along the lines of all the other stuff we can buy off the shelves to attract the deer?

[DirtTime]

I guess I won't drink apple juice and then pee in the woods then. 

[The_Real_TCIII]

If it's clear and yella, you've got juice there fella. If it's cloudy and brown, you're in cider town! It's possible I watch too much Simpsons...

[DirtTime]

1 minute ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

If it's clear and yella, you've got juice there fella. If it's cloudy and brown, you're in cider town! It's possible I watch too much Simpsons...

LOL!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

22 minutes ago, Larry said:

They are not going to be afraid of any law suit. The science on how CWD is transmitted is more than good. You would not want to see this go to court.

Remember this if they find one deer on a farm in this state with CWD. Not only will the state or Feds kill every deer on that farm. They will also kill every deer on every farm that farm sold deer to.

Really?  Maybe after they hand that farmer a few 100 grand.  Oh they are very afraid of a lawsuit. It takes a little more than that to shut down a persons way of life. You do know there has already been cases of CWD in Ny state in the wild and at aWildlife Rehabber right?

They cant kill any livestock until the farmer is paid for the value of that deer. Most the can do is lock them down for 5 years.

[ny hunter]

Ok I use Antler Ice the last 3 years.1st year shot a monster 7 pt that was hot on a doe and caught a wiff of the ice and made a bee line towards me.2ND year nothing but small bucks cruising no bee lines last year saw a small 4pt work his way towards me but had to let him go and that was all the horns I saw ..........I well use Antler Ice again this year.

[eagle rider]

8 hours ago, ny hunter said:

Ok I use Antler Ice the last 3 years.1st year shot a monster 7 pt that was hot on a doe and caught a wiff of the ice and made a bee line towards me.2ND year nothing but small bucks cruising no bee lines last year saw a small 4pt work his way towards me but had to let him go and that was all the horns I saw ..........I well use Antler Ice again this year.

Stuff looks interesting, butI'm very skeptical about anything that biological waste (which pee is) in plastic.  

[fasteddie]

My youngest son used a couple of scent smoke sticks last year . One of them was 

Tink’s #69-X Rut Smokin’ Sticks

A small 10 point came right to them and Nick shot him at about 10 yards . 

[ny hunter]

5 hours ago, eagle rider said:

Stuff looks interesting, butI'm very skeptical about anything that biological waste (which pee is) in plastic.  

It comes frozen I let it thaw the night before and hold the bottle in my hand as walk in for a bit more warmth when I get close to my stand I start the drag rag then hang a few wicks around the stand. At least I hope it covers my scent. I did try a smoke stick years ago FastEddie call Deer Sense had a doe walk by and looked at the smoke and kept walking,you also have to watch not to start a fire.

[eagle rider]

An alternate view is that the smoke didn't spook the doe. And she came into an area where it was. That's impressive.


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[fasteddie]

2 hours ago, ny hunter said:

It comes frozen I let it thaw the night before and hold the bottle in my hand as walk in for a bit more warmth when I get close to my stand I start the drag rag then hang a few wicks around the stand. At least I hope it covers my scent. I did try a smoke stick years ago FastEddie call Deer Sense had a doe walk by and looked at the smoke and kept walking,you also have to watch not to start a fire.

It states on the directions to clear a small circle before lighting the smoke stick . You put out any flame and the thing just smolders . I have a plastic shroud that gets placed over the smoke stick . Some people drill holes in a bucket and place that over the smoldering smoke stick . 

[ny hunter]

I did the bucket method like I said not sure what think.I don't know if the doe came into it or she was just passing by..

[BizCT]

None


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[Paula]

20 hours ago, ....rob said:

Good lord! Can someone answer my apple juice question?

Of course it works

[dbHunterNY]

I used to use scents a lot but not anymore.  seemed like a close or hot doe would just be more appealing to them. I more use scents that just get them to stop and check it out giving me a shot, more so than drawing them in.  what works even better is getting the tarsal off another smaller buck shot by someone else on the farm.  bag or jar that thing in a hurry, keeping your distance unless you don't like to be around people.  bigger bucks in the area know this buck scent and know they can take him.  they'll come in hair standing up, ears pinned back, and stiff legged as soon as they get downwind of the thing.