Predator Control Is A Must!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

8 hours ago, PREDATE said:

Lol...proven huh?

It sure was on our local population. A couple 3-4 years ago there were livestock killings. Pet attacks and big time wildlife depletion . If you have a yote population issue you start at the bottom and that's at the den. One mentioned a 22 and a hayfield which will work but there are much quicker ways. It's just another thing Ny is clueless about and landowners with vermin just need to do what it takes to wipe them out of a givin area or they sit back and watch the things decimate everything.  We don't see it as a poaching thing or a law thing. If someone was stealing your property or harming what's yours would you do nothing?

[wolc123]

That is why I would like to see the season on them be eliminated and let us hunt them year-round.   It would not take long to get them under control if they did that.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

8 hours ago, PREDATE said:

Lol...proven huh?

It sure was on our local population. A couple 3-4 years ago there were livestock killings. Pet attacks and big time wildlife depletion . If you have a yote population issue you start at the bottom and that's at the den. One mentioned a 22 and a hayfield which will work but there are much quicker ways. It's just another thing Ny is clueless about and landowners with vermin just need to do what it takes to wipe them out of a givin area or they sit back and watch the things decimate everything.  We don't see it as a poaching thing or a law thing. If someone was stealing your property or harming what's yours would you do nothing?

[Padre86]

15 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

LOL...This theory has been proven wrong. You can wipe out a Yote population if you want them gone. No means is to harsh.  I love how the ones that make the rules do not have to deal with them. I didnt buy my land for a bunch of vermin to destroy what i built and love.  I will gladly take any ticket or fine if that was the case but there are loop holes in everything if you look hard enough.

 

 

You can heavily depress or wipe out a yote population if you use a spectrum of methods to include, trapping, poisoning, hunting (public and government).  We've universally agreed that some means, like poisoning, are too harsh because they indiscriminately affect many species, not just coyotes.  And simply hunting coyotes does not usually lead to a depression of their numbers.  This has been proven in multiple studies and papers published by state game biologists, who are by no means aligned with the anit-hunters.

17 hours ago, Rattler said:

I assume you failed to read the whole article.  It specifically stated hunting yotes in the spring is needed to keep them in check and limit fawn loses.  NY only allows fall hunting for yotes which according to the article is a mistake when trying to protect deer numbers.  NY is doing it wrong because it is getting pressure from a lot of anti hunting groups as well as misinformed hunters and animal lovers.  Yotes are predators.  That's what they do.  And they do it with extreme prejudice.  We are letting them become a huge problem while ignoring all the evidence of their effects on deer numbers.

 

I did read the whole article Rattler.  The part about coyotes that I specifically noted said this: 

Quote

Coyotes are resilient critters. Long gone are the days when man has any semblance of complete coyote control. Prior to the Environmental Protection Agency banning virtually all chemical predator-control substances in 1972, and the equally inefficient U.S. government eliminating its predator control program, most western states had coyotes and other predators fairly controlled. The result? Big game populations were at all-time highs. Since the chemical-control ban, coyote populations have skyrocketed, resulting in these tenacious canines increasing their populations and expanding their range eastward at a phenomenal rate, much to the detriment of big and small game species and less dominant predators in many areas.

The fact is that sport hunting or fur hunting coyotes makes little if any dent in overall populations even in a small area. Combined hunting and trapping can be far more effective where these methods can be intensely applied.

Basically, it was a widespread extermination campaign, using some methods that we'd likely no longer find acceptable, that kept the yote numbers heavily depressed.  Sport hunting does not usually do enough to keep their numbers seriously.  Now I don't have any problem with someone taking a few out while deer hunting, as I have no doubt that the fawn in that area will have a better chance of survival due to it.  But to put a serious dent in the yote populations, you'd have to have widespread trapping and hunting, likely with government rewards or sponsorship, in order to motivate enough hunters to get out there and depress the yote numbers.

 

Again, the NRA article that you quoted says this very explicitly.  And many other state game studies have confirmed this.

 

And, yes I'd be all for extending the yote season, if not making it year-round.  But as it is, we can hunt them all the way into the end of March...so if people we're so inclined, they could go out then to take a bunch of yotes out in order to give the spring-born fawn some breathing room.  However, I suspect that that most hunters here, or in NY in general, don't go out for the sole purpose of hunting yotes simply because they don't find it as appealing as hunting other game.  If even a 1/4 of all of NY's hunters took advantage of the current yote season and made serious efforts to hunt and trap them, I suspect we wouldn't have as many as we currently do, or at least they'd be pressured into moving away from popular  hunting grounds.

 

Moral of the story is people should stop complaining and get out there and hunt some yotes and the DEC should incentivize their hunting and trapping where appropriate.  

 

 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Padre86

[Rattler]

The part I was asking if you read was the one about hunting yotes when deer are dropping fawns and yotes are having pups.  Too many states don't allow hunting during this time simply because of the politically incorrect view of the practice.

 

"Several recent studies have shown that whitetail deer fawn recruitment rates jumped 150 to 200 percent when coyotes were all but eliminated from an area during the spring fawning season—by far the best time to hammer the coyote population.

Spring and summer coyote hunting goes against the grain of many predator hunters out for the challenge or prime fur, but is the most effective time to control coyote population increases."

[Four Season Whitetail's]

9 hours ago, Padre86 said:

 

You can heavily depress or wipe out a yote population if you use a spectrum of methods to include, trapping, poisoning, hunting (public and government).  We've universally agreed that some means, like poisoning, are too harsh because they indiscriminately affect many species, not just coyotes.  And simply hunting coyotes does not usually lead to a depression of their numbers.  This has been proven in multiple studies and papers published by state game biologists, who are by no means aligned with the anit-hunters.

I did read the whole article Rattler.  The part about coyotes that I specifically noted said this: 

Basically, it was a widespread extermination campaign, using some methods that we'd likely no longer find acceptable, that kept the yote numbers heavily depressed.  Sport hunting does not usually do enough to keep their numbers seriously.  Now I don't have any problem with someone taking a few out while deer hunting, as I have no doubt that the fawn in that area will have a better chance of survival due to it.  But to put a serious dent in the yote populations, you'd have to have widespread trapping and hunting, likely with government rewards or sponsorship, in order to motivate enough hunters to get out there and depress the yote numbers.

 

Again, the NRA article that you quoted says this very explicitly.  And many other state game studies have confirmed this.

 

And, yes I'd be all for extending the yote season, if not making it year-round.  But as it is, we can hunt them all the way into the end of March...so if people we're so inclined, they could go out then to take a bunch of yotes out in order to give the spring-born fawn some breathing room.  However, I suspect that that most hunters here, or in NY in general, don't go out for the sole purpose of hunting yotes simply because they don't find it as appealing as hunting other game.  If even a 1/4 of all of NY's hunters took advantage of the current yote season and made serious efforts to hunt and trap them, I suspect we wouldn't have as many as we currently do, or at least they'd be pressured into moving away from popular  hunting grounds.

 

Moral of the story is people should stop complaining and get out there and hunt some yotes and the DEC should incentivize their hunting and trapping where appropriate.  

 

 

Pretty much all true and your right that they can be wiped out of an area if all of the above ways of disposing of them and then some are used. Hunting and trapping season accounted for the least numbers  when the numbers of vermin were disposed of..

[Padre86]

19 hours ago, Rattler said:

The part I was asking if you read was the one about hunting yotes when deer are dropping fawns and yotes are having pups.  Too many states don't allow hunting during this time simply because of the politically incorrect view of the practice.

 

"Several recent studies have shown that whitetail deer fawn recruitment rates jumped 150 to 200 percent when coyotes were all but eliminated from an area during the spring fawning season—by far the best time to hammer the coyote population.

Spring and summer coyote hunting goes against the grain of many predator hunters out for the challenge or prime fur, but is the most effective time to control coyote population increases."

Well, as has already been stated, we can currently hunt them all the way through the end of March.  If people in NY were to actually take advantage of the current season, the fawn would without a doubt have much better chances of survival later in the spring.

And I'm not trying to argue against extending the coyote season.  I'm all for it.  I'm realistic though in that I don't think it will change anything.  Most hunters in NY won't hunt coyotes, regardless of how long the season is.  I think most hunters view it as too little reward for quite a bit of effort.

Me personally, I enjoy hunting them whenever I can; it's simply another opportunity for me and my dog to be out in the woods.

[Bowguy 1]

On October 2, 2016 at 7:00 AM, Rattler said:

That does not include the time that does start dropping fawns.  Yotes have litters at the same time deer drop fawns and they need to feed their young.  One litter of 4 pups can consume as many as 40 fawns before they leave their mother.

There was a time when their population was so low, nobody even knew they existed in the area.  How important is their role in the wild when it didn't matter if they were there decades ago?

They do serve as an effective deer population control element, if you don't care about a huntable deer population.  Hunters who deny their effect on deer populations may soon find hunting isn't needed to control deer in the near future.  That may actually be the real plan from the beginning.  Especially since the anti's are now talking about other types of predators being introduced to further decimate deer populations.

 

The antis are wrong again. We already have predators in the woods. The fact theyd rather see coyotes tear a fawn than a little kid grin after a first deer, n a great shot shows they're off. The kid n coyotes eyes are in the same place. They're both predators. I say shoot every legal coyote. It'll be less in the woods. Hunt em after deer season, lots of fun

[chas0218]

I haven't passed on one yet, and never will. Just to warn you guys during bow season if your arrow doesn't pass through expect the arrow to get chewed to crap. I shot one and pinned it to the ground and man was it pissed. It chewed my lighted nock and shaft into pieces.

[DaveB]

Hello all,

 I have seen a big decline in deer population on property that I hunt and the landowner says there is no shortage of coyotes. Very few trail cam pics of deer where there used to be loads of them. 

 I won't hesitiate to shoot a coyote even if it meant spooking a deer.

 Actually going out and hunting coyotes is a blast, they won't pass up a meal and are unbelievably cagey animals and can bust you in a heart beat. 

[stubborn1VT]

There is no way you can exterminate coyotes on any kind of scale.  It's been tried with bounties and with poison.  We have no closed season in Vermont.  We trap them, call them, and hunt them with dogs.  All we do is put a dent in the population.  The harder you hunt them, the smarter they get.  How would you exterminate coyotes on thousands of acres of private/posted land?

You can make an impact on their population though, and I have seen that help the deer and turkeys.  I shoot every one I see.

[GreeneHunter]

Last year on opening day when its prime time for deer I shot a yote ! I knew it might ruin the rest of the day with the activity ( it didn't ) but I shot him anyway .  I just couldn't stand to let him pass knowing he was eating / killing something to survive !

[Four Season Whitetail's]

11 hours ago, stubborn1VT said:

There is no way you can exterminate coyotes on any kind of scale.  It's been tried with bounties and with poison.  We have no closed season in Vermont.  We trap them, call them, and hunt them with dogs.  All we do is put a dent in the population.  The harder you hunt them, the smarter they get.  How would you exterminate coyotes on thousands of acres of private/posted land?

You can make an impact on their population though, and I have seen that help the deer and turkeys.  I shoot every one I see.

No Way?????   Have you ever found den's on your property?  You locate and deal with the/them at the den site and the population will be cut by an easy 50%. I would say an even higher % in our case and the population around here still has not rebounded anywhere close to the numbers we once had.  None taken this deer season although a couple did enjoy a couple long range misses.

[stubborn1VT]

I'm just saying that historically, humans have tried to eradicate coyotes.  It has never been done on any kind of scale.  That's why we have almost no wolves in NY and VT, but all kinds of other predators.  Yes, you can impact the coyotes on your property.  But what about on the neighbors, or on state land?  You said you can "wipe out" a coyote population, but that's just not true.  You can wipe out a pack, but you can't eliminate coyotes in a single rural town.  

Ranchers tried to make coyotes extinct in the last century, by any means available, and they were unsuccessful.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

18 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

I'm just saying that historically, humans have tried to eradicate coyotes.  It has never been done on any kind of scale.  That's why we have almost no wolves in NY and VT, but all kinds of other predators.  Yes, you can impact the coyotes on your property.  But what about on the neighbors, or on state land?  You said you can "wipe out" a coyote population, but that's just not true.  You can wipe out a pack, but you can't eliminate coyotes in a single rural town.  

Ranchers tried to make coyotes extinct in the last century, by any means available, and they were unsuccessful.  

If you would have seen the numbers we had before and then after an all out war on them you could use the phrase..Wipe Out. They do not repopulate like some science says when you take extreme measures on a property. Our 900 acre piece now see's some tracks and a dog here and there compared to having 3 packs in 3 different directions yipping and yapping back and forth to each other on any givin night. Now you hear a single here and there.

Their deal breaker is the den site.  

[stubborn1VT]

We have guys that bait and hunt coyotes on a 600 acre dairy farm. Every year they run dogs and kill 20-30 coyotes.  They've done that for decades.  It helps keep the population in check.  They do reproduce like science says.  It's science.  I've seen it.  I'm glad you have pushed the coyotes off your 900 acres, but they are still on the neighbors and they are still in your town.  They're smart, and they know they aren't welcome on your ground.  That doesn't mean you did much to the overall population in the 5 square miles around you.  I'm glad you have had success combating them, but I don't think you see the big picture.  VT has no closed season.  We know a lot about killing coyotes.  We still have too many.

Edited December 27, 2016 by stubborn1VT
typo

[the blur]

There are no bag limits on Yotes & Raccoons, and a few other Fur bearer's.  That means there are plenty of them to go around.

I met someone that took 25 Raccoons off his farm.    He said it took 3 years till he saw another one.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

16 minutes ago, stubborn1VT said:

We have guys that bait and hunt coyotes on a 600 acre dairy farm. Every year they run dogs and kill 20-30 coyotes.  They've done that for decades.  It helps keep the population in check.  They do reproduce like science says.  It's science.  I've seen it.  I'm glad you have pushed the coyotes off your 900 acres, but they are still on the neighbors and they are still in your town.  They're smart, and they know they aren't welcome on your ground.  That doesn't mean you did much to the overall population in the 5 square miles around you.  I'm glad you have had success combating them, but I don't think you see the big picture.  VT has no closed season.  We know a lot about killing coyotes.  We still have too many.

Yeah i think you are giving them a little to much credit.  If you wait until they are that old to trap and run you will not have the same effect.  Those kind of numbers do not just..Learn..to stay off a property. If they moved next door they would still leave sign and you would still hear them at night.  Yes we still have some and that is not a problem, a few around are a good thing.

 

[turkeyfeathers]

I'm so torn on if this thread is more entertaining or the xbow thread. Keep teetering back and forth 

My thoughts   Yes coyotes are the top of the food chain   Every in every country their is "the top " , coyotes , bears , lions , tigers oh my  Don't think in those places they have the thought of wiping those out   Will I shoot or trap a coyote when it's legal, yes sir  Do I think they need to be exterminated , nope  Not denying they aren't creating problems in certain areas  . That they kill my beloved turkeys , that I have a pack of 6 I have on video and tracks in tandem where I hunt. It's the food chain people  Go shoot or trap a few , skin them , get them tanned  , hang em on your wall.  You've done your part then  

 

 

[stubborn1VT]

Of course they can learn to stay off a property.  They are at least as smart as deer.  History has proven they can't be eradicated.  Do a little research.  I think you give yourself too much credit.  Whatever.  We won't agree.  Done with this thread. 

[Curmudgeon]

It is a good thing professionals - for the most part - write the rules.

Deer control is a must. Coyote control is a dream.

Edited December 27, 2016 by Curmudgeon
Typo

[chrisw]

Not to mention that someone will get tar and feathered on this site for "accidentally" using an illegal broadhead for deer but someone else runs around promoting killing and poisoning coyotes out of season and noone says a word.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Doc]

Here is what I am thinking. You could have an open season year around, but most likely you will never coax hunters out in the 80 or 90 degree heat of the summer. There is no way that I would camo-up during the summer months, or do I even know anyone who would do it. Is there anything that could lure me out into the skeeters and the heat with the sweat running down the center of my back just to harvest an absolutely worthless, unprimed pelt off some mangy coyote? ...... not likely. In fact it is likely that you would be opening a season that simply would never be significantly used by anyone. So I don't see any good arguments one way or the other regarding a year around season. Would it have much impact? ...... Probably not.

I will say one thing that kind of draws my curiosity a bit. In our area, the coyote population has taken a very distinct down-turn since a couple of decades ago. The population seems to go up and down in some pretty wild cycles. And since they reside at the top of the natural food chain, there definitely is something that is a significant natural population control. I have absolutely no idea what the control is, but something has cut down the population from a bunch of years ago.

 

[growalot]

OMG...knock me over with a turkey feather!..So surprised as to how this thread played out...hahahahaha

[turkeyfeathers]

14 minutes ago, growalot said:

OMG...knock me over with a turkey feather!..So surprised as to how this thread played out...hahahahaha

I resemble that remark