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Guunbroker Nightmare

eagle rider

By eagle rider,
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eagle rider Newbie

eagle rider

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Get this, I have been a buyer on Gunbroker since 2007.  Finally after 9 years I decide I'm going to sell a 7400 to make some room in the safe.  I put a low start price on a nice shooter  because honestly I wanted to turn the rifle and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg when I bought it.  By the end of the auction I had 10 watchers and a bidder who met the opening price.  Great,... right.... wrong!  The winner is in California.  Which is one stated that has more F'd up gun laws than our own.  So this buyer is in touch with me throughout the bidding by email.  All seems fine.  My sale ad on GB states "required FFL transfer" and my description on GB  even says that "if FFL is required by the auction winners FFL extra fees may apply."  As things are winding down, and it looks like he's the only interested bidder I email him and say that I think CA requires that I can only ship via a CA approved FFL.  He agrees and says he knows CA has crazy rules and that he's happy to pay the costs of an FFL to FFL transfer as long as they are not excessive plus I can use his UPS account to ship,.... again great.  I told him I will check with my local FFL who I know is CA approved and let him know the fees.  This was all Saturday night.

Now the auction is closed this is Sunday morning (three days ago).  The CA approved FFL in town tells me that he does CA transfers for $40 because they are a real paper chase state.  Okay, the guy won the auction at $325 plus shipping, and what I think is all good for a $40 CA FFL transfer fee.  So likely still under $400 all in on his end.  Not so fast, the winner looses his mind on email.  Tells me I'm attempting to hustle him for more $ because the gun went so cheap, that I don't need to use an FFL to CA on my side because a rifle made in the 1980's is on the C&R list and is exempted from CA regs, and sends me copies of the ATF rules on interstate sales and the NY SAFE Act on email.  He get's really nasty, and I mean really!!  This is still Sunday afternoon.  Meantime he is supposedly sending me a money order for the rifle, so I still have not been paid.  

I email him and say okay, I will check with the CA Attny General Firearms Control Bureau in Sacramento CA on Monday morning, and that I'd let him know what they tell me.  That we are bound by the GB User Agreement whereby it says we both have to follow the laws of the land on seller and buyer's side. That because I am unsure about CA rules I want to make sure for both of our sakes that I am in legal compliance before I ship to his FFL directly with the possibility of him not being able to accept it.  Just dotting my i's and crossing my t's.  That's all.

This guy goes and enters feedback for me on GB (mind you I HAD an A+ rating on GB prior to this) at a D level.  He calls me a "paranoid seller and that I am upset that gun went so cheap. Seller is trying to get extra $ from the sale by doing this."  I respond to the feed back as "wrong! buyer is a CA resident and I'm only checking the FFL shipping requirements at the close of the auction.  The buyer should want to be sure we are in compliance."  Now I'm pissed, I report this to GB Customer Service.... (this is like talking to Oz). I write the buyer again now saying his feedback is not correct, and I only said I was checking with his state because I am unfamiliar with the CA law.  He says he's a retired Police Officer and he "knows the laws."  He's bought over ninety rifles on GB over the years, that I have the only 7400 that is not a C&R gun, and that I can't use his UPS account for the shipping etc. etc. etc.  I respond that as a retired Police Officer he should be happy that I am checking the law with his state to make sure we finish this up the right way.  I ask him to remove the feedback that is negative because it's really not deserved and that I did communicate with GB about this.  Finally I said we are bound to sell on my side and buy on your side this gun so I assume that his payment is coming.  I leave it off that I'm sure he's as anxious to conclude his business with me as I am, so get the payment for the gun and once shipped since his UPS account is off the table he can mail me or Paypal me the shipping fees.  Again I'm wanting to tale the high road here. I ask him again to remove the feedback and he can reread our emails to see what he and I agreed to as a course of action on Saturday night prior to this.

Monday morning I call Sacramento CA and speak to their Firearms Section people... Turns out, he's right that I can ship directly to his FFL.  I call his FFL (he previously sent me that info when the auction closed) and send my info ahead of the payment.  The FFL was really helpful, and he tells me what I have to do to ship to CA and remain in compliance.  Basically it has to be FedEx or UPS only as a private seller.  I write back to the buyer and say we are good to go and that I am awaiting his payment.  CRICKETS!  No response from him since Sunday night at this point....  

Meantime GB Customer Service get's back to me and says I have to ship, per CA laws I can ship directly to his FFL.  Had I not spoken to the the buyers FFL I would have never known I couldn't use the Post Office so GB's response was helpful, but not entirely so.  However, in all fairness that wasn't my question. Now I reopen the communication with GB and say, great and per their user agreement which both seller and buyer are bound to I was doing my due diligence in checking the law.  That I told the buyer that a few times, and now that CA says I can ship directly I will once I receive the buyers payment and that I'd like him to be told to remove the negative feedback. So now I am awaiting a response from GB on that, and oh yes they already took their $8.75 in fee's for the closed auction!  I left it off with GB that I'd be happy to share all of my emails that I sent and received from the seller with them if they want.  

In reading the buyer's feedback he has done this to others in the past as well.  As of now I have no idea what's going on.  I have a rifle packed and ready to go to CA.  A FFL who is ready to accept it on his end.  No communication from the buyer since, I have no idea how he is expecting shipping to happen at this point and I'm owed $325 plus shipping fees. GB  offers as little support as possible but took their closed auction fees seconds.  Do I reach out to the seller again and ask for an update on his payment and layout his shipping options or wait until the weekend and see if a money order shows up?  Sorry for the novel....

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philoshop Newbie

philoshop

Posted
Posted

CA is a hotbed of cheats and scammers. I deal in rare and antique coins on ebay, The only hassles I've had whether buyer or seller over the years have been from CA residents. I've gone so far as to exclude them in my notes,  "I will not ship to foreign countries or California". It's simply not worth the hassle.

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Lawdwaz Grand Master

Lawdwaz

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1 hour ago, eagle rider said:

The buyer took a pic of a money order for $325 made out to me and emailed it  So I assume I'm getting paid.  Progress. Of course GB never responded to me again.  Whatever, live and learn.  I won't make that mistake twice.... I only look stupid, LOL.  

What about the shipping ?????

Sorry to hear about the drama.  I know it can happen and fortunately my eBay/Gunbroker/here/Campfire selling experiences have been 99.9% perfect.  Scary at times but they've all worked out.............:)

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Rattler Newbie

Rattler

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Don't worry about the feedback.  Post the best reply to it you can and forget it.  Most buyers and sellers understand the Californian buyers are a-holes.  They won't believe the guy's feedback.  Put "No Sales To California" in every future GB sale and block anyone in that state who tries to bid.  If he didn't win, the auction would relist and probably sell for more eventually.

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diplomat019 Proficient

diplomat019

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have you tried armslist?  You can at least keep the sale to local buyers.  I have made a few online purchases, and i have always gotten my product.  BUT THERE HAVE BEEN INSTANCES WHERE I HAD TO REACH OUT TO THE SELLER MORE THAN I WOULD HAVE LIKED.  SORRY for the caps.  dont feel like retyping lol.  

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eagle rider Newbie

eagle rider

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11 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

What about the shipping ?????

Sorry to hear about the drama.  I know it can happen and fortunately my eBay/Gunbroker/here/Campfire selling experiences have been 99.9% perfect.  Scary at times but they've all worked out.............:)

The shipping I will ask him to settle after the costs to ship are known.  If he does;t I'll GB to intervene.  

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