Antler restrictions

[stoneam2006]

I'm probably in the minority here but I hunt only state land and I'd be for some sort of AR. I've let anything 1.5 or younger go for 5 years now. I've had at least one opportunity at a 2.5yr old buck every year on state land. Last year I killed a 9 pt and this year I killed an 8, and 4 years ago I killed an 8, all during archery. The other years I didn't kill a buck, I shoot does for meat and if I don't kill a buck I'm fine with that. I've killed a lot of 1.5yr old bucks and they just don't do it for me anymore. But having said that... I do understand that some people don't have the time, or simply are happy with a 4 pt and I'm fine with that too. I guess I'm on both sides of the argument. I think they should let everyone vote on it, when you buy your license you get a vote on AR, majority wins. Simple. I'm sure that would result in no AR's but hey you never know.

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Letchworth doesn't count as its not average Joe ground lol. Takes alot to hunt there IMO

And can't hunt doe for meat everywhere. No doe tags where I live in travel long ways to hunt doe

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[Fletch]

51 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

Something that I would like ask all the naysayers. What the hell do we possibly loose by allowing bucks to get some age on them ? If nothing else at the very least we established a more natural age structure within herd.
The excuses and back peddling is at the point of ridiculousness.

You lose the complete reason hunting started, to feed us!

You will continue to alienate non hunters who now support hunting for people who hunt for food. The general public does not support trophy hunting.

You will continue to lose hunters. This weakens us all and possibly to the extent we are seen as not managing the population and they find other ways to do it.

You lose the phases that most hunters go through were it is first about getting deer, and then eventually more of a challenge..It slays me how many supporters have shot bucks, and plenty of them, earlier in their careers that were below the minimums they ask to put on future hunters.

You also possibly lower the overall quality of bucks by highgrading because AR's are the poorest form of herd management.

By the way I am for mandatory check in's and no I do not know how at this moment.

 

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[Buckstopshere]

1 hour ago, Trial153 said:

Something that I would like ask all the naysayers. What the hell do we possibly loose by allowing bucks to get some age on them ? If nothing else at the very least we established a more natural age structure within herd.
The excuses and back peddling is at the point of ridiculousness.

Good question. I think the main thing we lose is other hunters. Now you can look at it as losing competition..."hey, more for me!" Or look it at like...the tradition of deer hunting is something I want to pass on to the young folk.

I understand the former, but I am big time on the side of the latter point. We need to keep young people or new hunter's fingers in a little blood.

[chrisw]

Letchworth doesn't count as its not average Joe ground lol. Takes alot to hunt there IMO
And can't hunt doe for meat everywhere. No doe tags where I live in travel long ways to hunt doe
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I've never stepped foot in Letchworth...

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[stoneam2006]

I've never stepped foot in Letchworth...

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O sorry thought you were one of the Letchworth guys...where else is there AR's on stateland

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[chrisw]

Letchworth doesn't count as its not average Joe ground lol. Takes alot to hunt there IMO
And can't hunt doe for meat everywhere. No doe tags where I live in travel long ways to hunt doe
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You can't take does during archery or late season where you are?

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[stoneam2006]

You can't take does during archery or late season where you are?

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I can here durring those seasons no doe tags in 9x but some spots of adks are no doe at all.

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[Trial153]

Good question. I think the main thing we lose is other hunters. Now you can look at it as losing competition..."hey, more for me!" Or look it at like...the tradition of deer hunting is something I want to pass on to the young folk.
I understand the former, but I am big time on the side of the latter point. We need to keep young people or new hunter's fingers in a little blood.

We lose hunters because they actually have to be semi selective and actually hunt? Were we loosing huntings years ago when we had hardly no doe permits to shoot antlerless deer? What about the when we had doe to buck ratios that where insanely high? And buck harvest rates in the teens?

As for young hunters is it such a bad thing to ask them to make a positive identification ?? Or are we all about providing instant gratification to get out of the woods ASAP to run to the xbox? I don't see young people leaving the sport or not joining the ranks because they can't shoot a spike horn.

[Buckstopshere]

39 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

 

We lose hunters because they actually have to be semi selective and actually hunt? Were we loosing huntings years ago when we had hardly no doe permits to shoot antlerless deer? What about the when we had doe to buck ratios that where insanely high? And buck harvest rates in the teens?

As for young hunters is it such a bad thing to ask them to make a positive identification ?? Or are we all about providing instant gratification to get out of the woods ASAP to run to the xbox? I don't see young people leaving the sport or not joining the ranks because they can't shoot a spike horn.

If you can say one thing about hunting, it is that it is a learning experience. As one deer hunter, IMO hunting has to have the juice in it that it used to have to compete with the theoretical or virtual realms. And it does... there's nothing like quite like...Scoring!

Perhaps some of our brethren have forgotten what their first kills were like.

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm totally against it and I haven't shot a year and a half old buck in over 15years. Shoot what makes you happy and quit worrying about what others do.


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[BuckThornBooners]

I think the voluntary AR is working well seems in general most all hunters perfer big bucks over small bucks.  i also think the state is doing the right thing by providing deer management education in the hand book..  I feel like they are laying it out there for hunters to decide   here is your tags but it's up to you to manage the deer heard in you area.  if you like big mature deer thay have to live to maturity... this is what a small 1.5 looks like and if you choose not to shoot him he could live 2 more years give you twice the meat and one massive rack ..you decide..  

We have to remember that without management and restrictions we wouldint be arguing at all because the meat hunters would have exterminated the whitetail  population long ago  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think the voluntary AR is working well seems in general most all hunters perfer big bucks over small bucks.  i also think the state is doing the right thing by providing deer management education in the hand book..  I feel like they are laying it out there for hunters to decide   here is your tags but it's up to you to manage the deer heard in you area.  if you like big mature deer thay have to live to maturity... this is what a small 1.5 looks like and if you choose not to shoot him he could live 2 more years give you twice the meat and one massive rack ..you decide..  
We have to remember that without management and restrictions we wouldint be arguing at all because the meat hunters would have exterminated the whitetail  population long ago  

And this is happening in areas and why mandatory check in would be better than Ar!


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[upstate]

I would rather eat a 1.5 year old buck than a 4.5 year old buck.  For some reason I've yet to find a recipe that works for antlers. 

Some of you all watch too much television and your manhood appears threatened because you can't kill big bucks like they do on TV. 

You want big bucks? Find 40,000 acres and manage it. I won't have access to it to screw up your plan. 

[BuckThornBooners]

I would love to see you pass that 4.5yo up to shoot that 1.5yo 130lb 3pt  standing next to it.. 

[Trial153]

I would love to see you pass that 4.5yo up to shoot that 1.5yo 130lb 3pt  standing next to it.. 

Don't question his manhood ...

[phade]

We lose hunters because they actually have to be semi selective and actually hunt? Were we loosing huntings years ago when we had hardly no doe permits to shoot antlerless deer? What about the when we had doe to buck ratios that where insanely high? And buck harvest rates in the teens?

As for young hunters is it such a bad thing to ask them to make a positive identification ?? Or are we all about providing instant gratification to get out of the woods ASAP to run to the xbox? I don't see young people leaving the sport or not joining the ranks because they can't shoot a spike horn.

Just curious - how big was your first buck?


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[upstate]

8 minutes ago, BuckThornBooners said:

I would love to see you pass that 4.5yo up to shoot that 1.5yo 130lb 3pt  standing next to it.. 

I can let bucks pass, and I did on opening day.  This topic is like arguing religion and politics. 

I studied QDM for years. It's not only antlers, its herd management.  I have 55-60 acre plots of land to hunt, I lost my big acreage to development and another patch to a family members retirement needs ($$$$$) so my days of actually hunting a big buck  over. I get lucky and one passes through but actually spending bow into gun season, its not happening. So, I fill the freezer first. So that allows me to pass on the little guys. As season wears on, I am less selective

[ATbuckhunter]

2 hours ago, Trial153 said:

 

We lose hunters because they actually have to be semi selective and actually hunt? Were we loosing huntings years ago when we had hardly no doe permits to shoot antlerless deer? What about the when we had doe to buck ratios that where insanely high? And buck harvest rates in the teens?

As for young hunters is it such a bad thing to ask them to make a positive identification ?? Or are we all about providing instant gratification to get out of the woods ASAP to run to the xbox? I don't see young people leaving the sport or not joining the ranks because they can't shoot a spike horn.

 

Im all for AR's, but we should not force kids to follow it. Let a junior hunter shoot any deer. 

[Trial153]

Just curious - how big was your first buck?


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10/27/1990 . It was a 5 point, no brow tine on the left side. Thinking Back it was probably a 2.5 year old deer.

[nodeerhere]

I personally let lots of bucks pass anymore during bow. And I agree to let hunter up to age of 21 shoot what ever. But I sure do hate when I let these bucks walk and they get whacked anyhow during gun. I guess that's kinda why I'm for AR. But I still think maybe a 1 buck season is better. U would have to be more selective! U would let the 1.5/2.5 bucks walk. Well unless u were a true meat hunter or the guy who hunts once or twice a year. 

[Trial153]

Im all for AR's, but we should not force kids to follow it. Let a junior hunter shoot any deer. 

I never said otherwise. As soon as the AR issue gets brought up the first thing the naysayers say is that young people will stop hunting. I don't see a lot of young people hunting period, nevermind worrying about the what size buck they kill.
What I do see is the same guys year after year killing the first scrub they see year after year. Then they spend then rest of the season filling doe tags, or their bear tag....or the 8 point that walks by and then their wife magically tags it.

[nodeerhere]

6 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

I never said otherwise. As soon as the AR issue gets brought up the first thing the naysayers say is that young people will stop hunting. I don't see a lot of young people hunting period, nevermind worrying about the what size buck they kill.
What I do see is the same guys year after year killing the first scrub they see year after year. Then they spend then rest of the season filling doe tags, or their bear tag....or the 8 point that walks by and then their wife magically tags it.

[ATbuckhunter]

6 minutes ago, Trial153 said:

I never said otherwise. As soon as the AR issue gets brought up the first thing the naysayers say is that young people will stop hunting. I don't see a lot of young people hunting period, nevermind worrying about the what size buck they kill.
What I do see is the same guys year after year killing the first scrub they see year after year. Then they spend then rest of the season filling doe tags, or their bear tag....or the 8 point that walks by and then their wife magically tags it.

I apologize then because when I read your statement, i get the understanding that your saying youth hunters should also follow the AR rules. I think any senior and and youth hunter should be exempt from AR's 

[Trial153]

I apologize then because when I read your statement, i get the understanding that your saying youth hunters should also follow the AR rules. I think any senior and and youth hunter should be exempt from AR's 

I am not apposed to relaxed regs for youth hunters. I am apposed to people using that as excuse to do nothing and not progress. Personally i am willing to compromise on most regs, anything to get NY deer hunting out of the bottom of the barrel that it is. Truth be told AR ate t even my first choice when it comes to changes that need to be made however I think they are better then status quo.

[BuckThornBooners]

They need to make AR for kids like they shouldint able to shoot anything with more than 6pts.. I'm sick of kids killing bigger bucks then me every year!