No buck hunting

[Four Season Whitetail's]

7 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

Shoot off all the breeding bucks and the doe leave. the smaller ones fallow. That and each the big bucks get smaller and smaller because all the biggest have been killed. And the next trophy is smaller. Eventually that causes less doe being bred. Which in turn causes lower numbers. If few bucks to do the breeding the does will move to where the bucks are.  Some species of animal can change sex  when more of the opposite see is needed to populate. Others will move to where there in a higher number of needed sex. Bucks are not the only ones who will travel to breed. Does will when buck numbers are not there.

Are you serious?  So you are telling me that a piece of property has everything a doe group could ever want..Food,water and safety and they will pack up and leave because they dont have a..Trophy Class..buck to service them?  If you really think a doe will not stand for whatever buck is there and the most aggressive to do the job then i will leave you to your way of thinking. 

There will be no Help!

[chas0218]

52 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

So True! Thats because the Trophy hunter with Trophy lands does not pull the trigger everyday and mess up the land and hunting. We see 2-3 little bucks and 10-15 does and fawns in the fields and woods we hunt about every day. This year we even had a mature 11 and 8 pointers going at it in a wide open pasture at 10 oclock in the morning. Not many places you can see that going on.  Dont shoot every deer you see and you will continue to have great hunting.

That and don't push your property. I don't have high fence or any fence for that matter but still have deer moving around during daylight hours although they are a little on nerve also see on average 8-10 different deer per a sit. 

[chrisw]

Honestly stubby... Just stop. You can be against "trophy hunting or QDMA all you want, that's your right, but you do not truly understand anything about it. I'm not saying that because I disagree with you but truly because you do not understand what deer management is or its effects. This is where you can choose to dig your heels in and fight... Or use this opportunity to learn more about it and accept the fact there is a lot you didn't know or understand. I'm not personally attacking you here, but, you grossly misunderstand deer behavior.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[NFA-ADK]

2 hours ago, chrisw said:

Honestly stubby... Just stop. You can be against "trophy hunting or QDMA all you want, that's your right, but you do not truly understand anything about it. I'm not saying that because I disagree with you but truly because you do not understand what deer management is or its effects. This is where you can choose to dig your heels in and fight... Or use this opportunity to learn more about it and accept the fact there is a lot you didn't know or understand. I'm not personally attacking you here, but, you grossly misunderstand deer behavior.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 

I have studied whitetails for 29 years and went overboard from 2000-2013.  You have a vast amount of knowledge to gain Stubby68.   Good luck I am done with this post.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 hours ago, stubby68 said:

      Then why ever time qdma talks the main they say is it helps get older bigger bucks. Ask how qdma  helps the herd the first and last thing that is said. Bigger bucks. And of corse bigger bucks always means a healthier herd. 

how many QDMA events have you been to? how many talks and who put them on and where? I have heard the mention of larger racks but it is always as a byproduct of QDM which includes good habitat management and improvement, a balanced age structure (letting 1.5 year old bucks walk),a reasonable buck to doe ratio, tracking sighting harvest information. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 hours ago, wdswtr said:

Do you understand the only way to get bigger and older age class deer is to have a diversified healthy herd that is balanced to the lands herd capacity?  To get this older class herd you must have a younger class to grow up.   You honestly dont know what qdma is.

I have a better idea than any more commenting to educate him. Just ram you head into the fridge a few times. It will more beneficial results...lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And just for the record Stubby. QDM is a management principle. QDMA is an organization. Just so you get it straight.  

[stubby68]

     Culver I know qdma is an organiation and I also know that qdm is pushed by qdma. 

        I never b said a doe needs a trophy class buck to breed and yes they will stand for a younger buck. However when you kill the biggest bucks on your property year after year eventually you run out of bucks to do the breeding. Does will leave a property to search for bucks if there are few to no breeding age bucks where they are. Are there deer that stay on one property there whole life? Sure are hut most will move to find what they need, food, water, breeding, cover whatever they need to survive and perpetuate  the species.

             I know I haven't got it all right .But, Can anyone explain to me how our deer numbers were fine before trophy hunting ,but then dropped way off after a few years of trophy hunting. Trophy hunting was stopped and we all went back to shooting anything older then a 6 month fawn. The deer numbers have been coming back up sence and every year is better then the last.  We have a wide variety of age structure and numbers getting better.

               Yes I have pics of every small buck I have shot. Those that I posted were to show that I have taken more then just 1 1/2 year old bucks. I do have a shoulder mount and several euro mounts. My father is retired and saves the heads of some of the deer we get so he has projects for the year. He did the mount and the euros .  He also cuts the tines off and uses them to make knife handles, door handles and many other things. He also sells the racks .No not all the bucks I posted were mine 2 of them were not, the 2 biggest actually. I never said they were all mine. I just said no special skills were not needed to get these deer. They just happened to walk by.I could post pics of the small bucks but why bother. Every time I have been called out on my ( skills ) as a hunter I post pics as prove and t b end the pics are attacked. You can't tell me why I am wrong so you discredit my pics.

            I was asked to give my reason on why trophy hunting is bad and I did. I told of the changes for the better we have seen since stopping trophy hunting yet because all anyone wants is big racks at any cost I am wrong.

            I started a legit post yet because the big buck hunters were afraid that some light would be she'd on the truth about trophy hunting and the fact that there are very few real deer hunters left I was attacked. As a result things strayed far f r on the original question because I was forced to defend myself.

                   I do not begrudge any the right to hunt the way they want but do not tell me the results we have seen since stopping trophy hunting. And also no bow hunting are wrong. Not when you have not been there to see the change. I say trophy hunting hurts the herd I am dead wrong just because no matter what I am seeing for results in our area. You say trophy hunting helps the herd and you are right j u st because you say so. 

           I strive for the most a mount of deer our properties can hold with the widest variety  of age and size. Not the fewest oldest and biggest.No trophy hunting has achieved this for me I am sorry that this offends any of you.

              Probably time to lock this thread as it has turned into a mess as all threads that show just a little provery that trophy might not be the best way to help the herd.

[stubby68]

Don't know how it happened but half that post was actually typed in another thread.Everything went here in one post instead of two separate posts in two different threads.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

15 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

     Culver I know qdma is an organiation and I also know that qdm is pushed by qdma. 

        I never b said a doe needs a trophy class buck to breed and yes they will stand for a younger buck. However when you kill the biggest bucks on your property year after year eventually you run out of bucks to do the breeding. Does will leave a property to search for bucks if there are few to no breeding age bucks where they are. Are there deer that stay on one property there whole life? Sure are hut most will move to find what they need, food, water, breeding, cover whatever they need to survive and perpetuate  the species.

             I know I haven't got it all right .But, Can anyone explain to me how our deer numbers were fine before trophy hunting ,but then dropped way off after a few years of trophy hunting. Trophy hunting was stopped and we all went back to shooting anything older then a 6 month fawn. The deer numbers have been coming back up sence and every year is better then the last.  We have a wide variety of age structure and numbers getting better.

               Yes I have pics of every small buck I have shot. Those that I posted were to show that I have taken more then just 1 1/2 year old bucks. I do have a shoulder mount and several euro mounts. My father is retired and saves the heads of some of the deer we get so he has projects for the year. He did the mount and the euros .  He also cuts the tines off and uses them to make knife handles, door handles and many other things. He also sells the racks .No not all the bucks I posted were mine 2 of them were not, the 2 biggest actually. I never said they were all mine. I just said no special skills were not needed to get these deer. They just happened to walk by.I could post pics of the small bucks but why bother. Every time I have been called out on my ( skills ) as a hunter I post pics as prove and t b end the pics are attacked. You can't tell me why I am wrong so you discredit my pics.

            I was asked to give my reason on why trophy hunting is bad and I did. I told of the changes for the better we have seen since stopping trophy hunting yet because all anyone wants is big racks at any cost I am wrong.

            I started a legit post yet because the big buck hunters were afraid that some light would be she'd on the truth about trophy hunting and the fact that there are very few real deer hunters left I was attacked. As a result things strayed far f r on the original question because I was forced to defend myself.

                   I do not begrudge any the right to hunt the way they want but do not tell me the results we have seen since stopping trophy hunting. And also no bow hunting are wrong. Not when you have not been there to see the change. I say trophy hunting hurts the herd I am dead wrong just because no matter what I am seeing for results in our area. You say trophy hunting helps the herd and you are right j u st because you say so. 

           I strive for the most a mount of deer our properties can hold with the widest variety  of age and size. Not the fewest oldest and biggest.No trophy hunting has achieved this for me I am sorry that this offends any of you.

              Probably time to lock this thread as it has turned into a mess as all threads that show just a little provery that trophy might not be the best way to help the herd.

I can tell you where a huge number of your deer went and it sure was not Trophy Hunters... You can blame your DEC along with farmers and sharpshooters.

[Core]

On 12/3/2016 at 10:56 PM, stubby68 said:

          Here is  a question that came up the other day while discussing AR and the doe only 2 weeks during bow last year with a few guys. Seemed like there were alot of guys who sat out or found hunting spots in areas they could kill bucks those 2 weeks last year.How many guys would still deer hunt if you were not allowed to shoot bucks. Say instead of AR how about Dec jus close the whole state to buck hunting for 5 years. That would really help in the quest for older bigger bucks wouldn't it? 

         I know I would still hunt. Heck I wish I could get my regular season tag as an either sex tag like bow hunters do. I would rather take a doe for the meat then a buck for the rack,and if I didn't see a buck I wouldn't lose money on a tag not getting used.

Wouldn't support it myself. I know some guys here have land with enough deer they can pick and choose from, but this year in the ~20 hunting trips I've gone on, I have had only one shot opportunity on a deer, and it was on a buck. The only other deer that came within range even once was also a buck (yearling). 

[Lawdwaz]

42 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

     Those that I posted were to show that I have taken more then just 1 1/2 year old bucks. I

          

 

stubby......You HAVE posted pics of your deer on here?

What thread? 

[SteveB]

57 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

I started a legit post yet because the big buck hunters were afraid that some light would be she'd on the truth about trophy hunting and the fact that there are very few real deer hunters left I was attacked.

Can't shed light with a burned out light bulb. Hint - you aren't looking for real discussion when you start with the "fact" there are few real deer hunters left. You thru the 1st punch with a statement like that and now want to be the victim. Good luck.

 

[stubby68]

13 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

stubby......You HAVE posted pics of your deer on here?

What thread? 

Many times most recently the antler restriction thread. My intro thread when I first joined. Any number of times When I have been called out on my hunting.

[wdswtr]

         

Quote

   I know I haven't got it all right .But, Can anyone explain to me how our deer numbers were fine before trophy hunting ,but then dropped way off after a few years of trophy hunting. Trophy hunting was stopped and we all went back to shooting anything older then a 6 month fawn. The deer numbers have been coming back up sence and every year is better then the last.  We have a wide variety of age structure and numbers getting better.

The variables to your question are so vast it would be impossible to answer this question with 100% certainty.  DEC, doe permit numbers, local farmers, milder winters, less hunters, food plots, mass crops, browse, poachers,predators,logging mature mass crop trees, immature crop trees now producing nuts,  a 5 mile radius of what others are doing, the list goes on and on.  For all one knows it could be a farmer planted some crop that attracted many deer and they just moved off your property, now the guy stopped, deer returned and it happened to coincide with your non trophy hunting theory.  If you read the article I posted earlier you would understand these studies prove that these trophys are not the only breeders. I would take a guess that if anything those trophys being gone took the pressure off the younger class bucks and they bred more readily.  Also understand that those young bucks are moving off that property.    I can tell you the biggest influence on deer here at home is availability of food.  There is just not much or any real sized farms around here at home.  When mass crops are poor its noticeable in number of deer sightings. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by wdswtr

[nyantler]

I would definitely still hunt, but with much less enthusiasm. To make it more fun I would probably hunt with longbow from the ground the entire deer season. Not being able to hunt a mature ADK buck would ruin hunting for me.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

12 hours ago, SteveB said:

Can't shed light with a burned out light bulb. Hint - you aren't looking for real discussion when you start with the "fact" there are few real deer hunters left. You thru the 1st punch with a statement like that and now want to be the victim. Good luck.

 

I have opposed AR with every breath I have had since day one. I think it took Stubby to get me on board if he represents any portion of the hunting population. Having that little amount of flawed logic tells me there just might be enough out there that it warrants a mandate. Where do I sign on the dotted line for mandatory AR's

[moog5050]

14 hours ago, stubby68 said:

 

               Yes I have pics of every small buck I have shot. Those that I posted were to show that I have taken more then just 1 1/2 year old bucks. I do have a shoulder mount and several euro mounts. My father is retired and saves the heads of some of the deer we get so he has projects for the year. He did the mount and the euros .  He also cuts the tines off and uses them to make knife handles, door handles and many other things. He also sells the racks .No not all the bucks I posted were mine 2 of them were not, the 2 biggest actually. I never said they were all mine. I just said no special skills were not needed to get these deer. They just happened to walk by.I could post pics of the small bucks but why bother. Every time I have been called out on my ( skills ) as a hunter I post pics as prove and t b end the pics are attacked. You can't tell me why I am wrong so you discredit my pics.

           

Why would you have any mounts done or take photos if bucks are nothing more than a meat source for you?  Mounting a deer is something trophy hunters do because they are particularly proud of the bigger bucks they have taken.  I am guessing the bucks you mounted were the bigger ones you shot too.  Seems like hypocrisy to me, but perhaps I am missing something here.  I hunt for meat but also big antlers and not surprisingly, the better bucks are the deer I mount.

BTW - if you are posting photos of deer that others shot, its best to clarify that.

[stubby68]

                   I do not have anything mounted. My father does what he wants with them. He sometimes mounts them shoulder, sometimes euro ,  some get cut up for knife handles, cabinet handles. whatever he thinks to have projects in the winter months. He even sells some antlers. He has done euros on squirrel , fox, coyotes , beaver. Whatever just projects it is something he likes to do.All work done by him never sent out. He hangs them in his shop, the cabin a few in his house. He even does them with ones that are found dead. I have one on my wall at my house. It is a tiny little thing he put on a plaque with a knife he made. He also uses the hides of deer beaver and other animals to make sheaths for knifes. I have no need for mounts myself.

[chrisw]

                   I do not have anything mounted. My father does what he wants with them. He sometimes mounts them shoulder, sometimes euro ,  some get cut up for knife handles, cabinet handles. whatever he thinks to have projects in the winter months. He even sells some antlers. He has done euros on squirrel , fox, coyotes , beaver. Whatever just projects it is something he likes to do.All work done by him never sent out. He hangs them in his shop, the cabin a few in his house. He even does them with ones that are found dead. I have one on my wall at my house. It is a tiny little thing he put on a plaque with a knife he made. He also uses the hides of deer beaver and other animals to make sheaths for knifes. I have no need for mounts myself.

You already stated, "I have one shoulder mount and several euros." Now you're saying "I do not have anything mounted." You seem to be confused as to which story you'd like to stick with...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[stubby68]

13 hours ago, chrisw said:

 

You already stated, "I have one shoulder mount and several euros." Now you're saying "I do not have anything mounted." You seem to be confused as to which story you'd like to stick with...

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 

 

              I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING MOUNTED. Just because there are mounts made of what I shoot does not mean I had those mounts done nor does it mean they are mine. What part of my father does what he want with the heads is Har to under stand? You guy are so set that trophy hunting is the way to go because you need it to feel like a real hunter that you read between every letter looking for anything to complain about. Does not matter if it is me or anyone else who disagrees with you. You don't  even read what is wrote. If you did you would have seen where I stated my father does shoulder and euro mounts for a hobby project. Not only deer and not only mounts. It's  like talking with 4 year Olds every word has to be explained. I ha email never changed my story. I said I don't have any mounts and I dont. Did I kill the animal? Yep. did I ask someone to mount it? Nope. Do I have them in my house? Nope. Do I give a rats behind about them ? Only for the fact that it is something my father made. Until my father picked up the hobby all racks went in trash. Does this help at all?

          I do not get excited about antlers or deer. They are food plain and simple. Any pics I have are because my grandfather started a diary years ago of all deer we have taken. Big small buck doe. They are all in diary with pics and info of hunt day, time weather, where gotten, gun used how many seen. Have I cleared things up? Maybe hockey on phonics would help.

              Why  is it that trophy hunters always try to disprove someone when they say they hunt for meat not bone. You peop,email need to get a grip on what actually matters in life. News flash it is not decorations on your wall.

[Buckmaster7600]

              I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING MOUNTED. Just because there are mounts made of what I shoot does not mean I had those mounts done nor does it mean they are mine. What part of my father does what he want with the heads is Har to under stand? You guy are so set that trophy hunting is the way to go because you need it to feel like a real hunter that you read between every letter looking for anything to complain about. Does not matter if it is me or anyone else who disagrees with you. You don't  even read what is wrote. If you did you would have seen where I stated my father does shoulder and euro mounts for a hobby project. Not only deer and not only mounts. It's  like talking with 4 year Olds every word has to be explained. I ha email never changed my story. I said I don't have any mounts and I dont. Did I kill the animal? Yep. did I ask someone to mount it? Nope. Do I have them in my house? Nope. Do I give a rats behind about them ? Only for the fact that it is something my father made. Until my father picked up the hobby all racks went in trash. Does this help at all?
          I do not get excited about antlers or deer. They are food plain and simple. Any pics I have are because my grandfather started a diary years ago of all deer we have taken. Big small buck doe. They are all in diary with pics and info of hunt day, time weather, where gotten, gun used how many seen. Have I cleared things up? Maybe hockey on phonics would help.
              Why  is it that trophy hunters always try to disprove someone when they say they hunt for meat not bone. You peop,email need to get a grip on what actually matters in life. News flash it is not decorations on your wall.

"Hockey on phonics" that sounds like some learning I could get into!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chrisw]

Stubby, I simply quoted what YOU said, I didn't change a single word in those quotes. It's a shame to see someone so opposed to something they don't even begin to understand and are unwilling to learn. You only hear what you want to hear and refuse to see facts or logic. As I've stated before, I can see both sides of this AR argument, I'm not FOR either side completely. All I can do at this point is hope you take it upon yourself to do a little unbiased research and have an open mind but it seems like you're unwilling to do that.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

46 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

 

 

"Hockey on phonics" that sounds like some learning I could get into!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Sounds like a Kindle post! BaHaHaHa

[phade]

Sounds like a Kindle post! BaHaHaHa

I am dying laughing in the middle of Detroit airport. Well done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk