That was disturbing !!

[diplomat019]

33 minutes ago, BigVal said:

No if my phone was in the truck and I was standing right there I wouldn't ask for a phone. I'd expect the employee to use the phone.

 I agree with you.  I guess my point is that when you see nobody's taking action, then you need to step in and take action. 

 

 I don't know if the dicks that you guys go to is anything like some of the ones that I've been in. But some of those people who are working there don't know their a$$ from their elbow. Especially in regards to firearms And firearm safety

[reeltime]

unsafe gun handling should not ever be tolerated whether its in ones home, camp, the field or a store! whether it be the clerk or another customer if they observe unsafe gun handling they should speak up and at the least the clerk should take back possession of the firearm!  

 As far as this story goes the authorities should have been immediately contacted, as far as no response from corporate folks I would go back and ask to speak with the store manager and if they are not aware of the incident have them review the video and talk to the clerk so that any future incidents can be handled properly.  turn this negative occurrence into a positive training tool.

 

[Salmon_Run]

1 hour ago, BigVal said:

No if my phone was in the truck and I was standing right there I wouldn't ask for a phone. I'd expect the employee to use the phone.

I didn't have immediate access to a phone and was more concerned for my personal safety and the location of cover and or concealment during the insanity. I was SHOCKED that the store didn't call for assistance immediately. I addressed it with the manager after and he was "I really wish we had called the police" . I said well it's not too late and I would be their witness.

Believe me if I had access to a phone I would have called; but acting as a citizen my responsibility was limited other than to witness and seek cover if it turned further to s**t in a hurry.

I have been in contact with corporate management and security and hope they do indeed turn this into a "teachable moment" for their staff. They were very unprepared for this and luckly no one was injured as a result. Me being unarmed and and without a phone I was very much "up the creek without a paddle" and personally helpless. I knew once the clerk removed the weapon from them the immediate threat had been removed and hoped management responded accordingly.

[Uptown Redneck]

Calling the police in this situation could have only made it worse. Imagine only to happy to shoot first and ask question later cops storming a crowded store with guns drawn. Can you picture the absolute panic response of those in the store? Calling the cops could have turned a simple screaming act into one of complete chaos.  

And as for gun safety all the guns I ever had pointed at me in Dicks or any other store have ALL been unloaded with trigger locks on them. No threat there!

[Salmon_Run]

Two import lessons I learned as a kid:

One, ALWAYS point a weapon in a SAFE direction...period!!!

Two, it is better to remain silent and let people assume you're IGNORANT than to open ones mouth and remove any and all doubt.....

Edited December 14, 2016 by Salmon_Run
spelling error

[Buckmaster7600]

Calling the police in this situation could have only made it worse. Imagine only to happy to shoot first and ask question later cops storming a crowded store with guns drawn. Can you picture the absolute panic response of those in the store? Calling the cops could have turned a simple screaming act into one of complete chaos.  

And as for gun safety all the guns I ever had pointed at me in Dicks or any other store have ALL been unloaded with trigger locks on them. No threat there!

We have all known that you are an idiot, the sad thing is you're training your daughter to follow your footsteps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Calling the police in this situation could have only made it worse. Imagine only to happy to shoot first and ask question later cops storming a crowded store with guns drawn. Can you picture the absolute panic response of those in the store? Calling the cops could have turned a simple screaming act into one of complete chaos.  

And as for gun safety all the guns I ever had pointed at me in Dicks or any other store have ALL been unloaded with trigger locks on them. No threat there!

Really?

[left field]

Let's say you're observing this and do have your phone. What do you say to the police?

You have to call 911, so there is a heightened sense of emergency, but she doesn't have the gun or ammo in her hands any longer. She's simply an irate asshole.

Honestly curious what you say in this situation and what appropriate response can be expected from the police.

[WNYBuckHunter]

13 hours ago, Jdubs said:

It's more than that.  This woman came storming in with the rifle, a magazine and ammo.  Given the context of her behavior, I don't know how any reasonable person would view this as "entertainment" and not as a criminal threat.  

S 120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
  A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
  1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm; or
  2. He or she repeatedly follows a person or engages in a course of
conduct or repeatedly commits acts over a period of time intentionally
placing or attempting to place another person in reasonable fear of
physical injury, serious physical injury or death;

Its not like she went into any store, it was a store that sells guns, which she was trying to return the gun to. It didnt sound to me like it was loaded or anything else. Sorry, but thats not menacing.

 

While I dont condone the womans alleged actions, I dont see anything illegal that happened in this case.

[growalot]

Actually... It would go under menacing and you have the fact she didn't enter with JUST a weapon...She entered agitated, screaming profanity, with AMMO in sight in her hands....by the account...

Now it was told a phone call went to the  gun shop clerk that she had entered with out checking the rifle...I have to wonder if the person that first saw her,  didn't see the ammo as well, and feared for their personal safety(they do not pay these people enough to get injured or killed on the job). Then decided to call instead of confront them. That falls clearly under menacing definition. Now you can top that with verbal threats telling them if they were afraid on the phone  just wait......

[reeltime]

the weapon does not have to be loaded to meet the menacing statute of the law

someone comes in any store with a firearm, magazine and ammo it most certainly should be a cause for heightened awareness of the situation and getting control of the firearm is priority number 1.

as far as the other response goes,,,, well we would expect nothing different since they just type things against the grain of salt just to troll for responses.

[Uptown Redneck]

For some guys here who talk so tough about defending themselves this thread shows their true fearfulness when they are confronted with a real life situation. According to the story you guys here are afraid of a woman with her children briefly having an unloaded gun in a sporting goods store. You guys who talk so tough about defending self, family and the country should be ashamed of yourselves for not being able to stand up to a woman with her kids in tow.     

[turkeyfeathers]

Uptown, for someone who admitted you DON'T hunt why do you chose to post on a HUNTING forum. Just curious. There are plenty of Shooting forums as well as political forums who could stir the pot on.

[Salmon_Run]

New York Penal Law:

240.20 Disorderly conduct.
A person is guilty of disorderly conduct when, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof:

1. He engages in fighting or in violent, tumultuous or threatening behavior;

[growalot]

That statement is showing you are more clueless than I originally estimated...

Anyone that knows an out of control woman's temperament, should be a dang sight more concerned than if they were dealing with a man under the same circumstance.

That woman would not have displayed a flight over fight response...I worked as a bartender and manager for many years...The only fights and confrontations any of us ever feared were woman brawls or ones with woman involved.

I watched a mans entire right cheek of his face torn off by a womans bite in one such New years eve brawl...and it wasn't even 9:30 pm. I testified in front of a grand jury on that one..of all the physical damage done to various people...It was the woman involved that did it...We are talking a small country night club...

Edited December 14, 2016 by growalot

[Salmon_Run]

1 hour ago, left field said:

Let's say you're observing this and do have your phone. What do you say to the police?

You have to call 911, so there is a heightened sense of emergency, but she doesn't have the gun or ammo in her hands any longer. She's simply an irate asshole.

Honestly curious what you say in this situation and what appropriate response can be expected from the police.

Simply you describe the situation as it happened and the current state of what is transpiring. As I posted earlier when she was disorderly and armed it should been called in as a 911 when it was an immediate threat and when she no longer possessed the weapon the police  response would be downgraded accordingly...

[Core]

3 hours ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Calling the police in this situation could have only made it worse. Imagine only to happy to shoot first and ask question later cops storming a crowded store with guns drawn. Can you picture the absolute panic response of those in the store? Calling the cops could have turned a simple screaming act into one of complete chaos.  

And as for gun safety all the guns I ever had pointed at me in Dicks or any other store have ALL been unloaded with trigger locks on them. No threat there!

Rule #1 always point in a safe direction. Come on, you know this. There was a guy who got killed at a party just this weekend while facebook streaming playing around with an "unloaded" gun.

[Uptown Redneck]

8 minutes ago, Core said:

Rule #1 always point in a safe direction. 

I'm not disputing this. I'm only saying that at times, especially in sporting goods stores, that this does not happen. And knowing not only is the gun unloaded but also equipped with a trigger lock, there is no reason to get worked up over finding oneself. at the mistake of another, staring into the barrel of an unloaded gun. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

For some guys here who talk so tough about defending themselves this thread shows their true fearfulness when they are confronted with a real life situation. According to the story you guys here are afraid of a woman with her children briefly having an unloaded gun in a sporting goods store. You guys who talk so tough about defending self, family and the country should be ashamed of yourselves for not being able to stand up to a woman with her kids in tow.     

You are assuming that the gun was not loaded. That was not stated as a fact nor was anyone at the time in a position to determine that. I think given the situation as it was explained here, only a complete idiot would go up against an irrational acting, armed woman walking through a store (any store) screaming obscenities. Perhaps it would take an even bigger idiot to stand there giggling at the situation and considering it "entertainment". Don't confuse prudent care and forethought for cowardice. But anyway, what are you suggesting? ....... that someone should have instantly wrestled her to the floor and ripped the gun from her hands to prove their toughness? The only thing being proven would be how to be escorted to the police car in handcuffs, charged with assault. I think you may have missed the point of what people were talking about when it comes to the idea of "defending self, family and the country".

Now relative to when to call the cops, and whether any laws were being broken, I believe that it is not our place to decide what is legal and what is not. My thought is that a call should have been made describing the whacked-out actions and demeanor of the woman waving a gun and acting a bit bizarre inside a store full of people so that the proper authorities can decide whether their attention and action or investigation is warranted. Give them the details of what is going on, and let them worry about what to do about it.

[Doc]

56 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

I'm not disputing this. I'm only saying that at times, especially in sporting goods stores, that this does not happen. And knowing not only is the gun unloaded but also equipped with a trigger lock, there is no reason to get worked up over finding oneself. at the mistake of another, staring into the barrel of an unloaded gun. 

There is no excuse for pointing any gun at anyone (or making excuses for anyone else doing so), regardless of what assumptions you may be making about how disabled and unloaded the gun may be. As I said before, gun safety should be used without even thinking about it. If that part of a persons hunter training safety course didn't take, there is nothing wrong with it being reinforced when someone is not paying attention to a safety rule so damned basic.

[Zem18]

 

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

For some guys here who talk so tough about defending themselves this thread shows their true fearfulness when they are confronted with a real life situation. According to the story you guys here are afraid of a woman with her children briefly having an unloaded gun in a sporting goods store. You guys who talk so tough about defending self, family and the country should be ashamed of yourselves for not being able to stand up to a woman with her kids in tow.     

 

57 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

I'm not disputing this. I'm only saying that at times, especially in sporting goods stores, that this does not happen. And knowing not only is the gun unloaded but also equipped with a trigger lock, there is no reason to get worked up over finding oneself. at the mistake of another, staring into the barrel of an unloaded gun. 

So come on over to my place later and Ill let you look down the barrel of my "unloaded" gun and tell me how you feel. Just because she is carrying a magazine and rounds in her hand doesn't mean that there cant be one in the chamber. I don't particularly like looking down the business end of any weapon and it makes most humans uncomfortable, besides you.

Apparently you are not affected by any of this as you are a macho man who sits behind a keyboard bashing others for how they would handle a situation and basically called them cowards for not standing up to woman. What would you have done? Enlighten us. Would have tackled her? Would you have gone up and gave her a black eye? Would you have tried to reason with her? Would you have pulled out your concealed carry piece and taken control of the situation? Just curious how YOU would have handled it tough guy.

I tried to explain this to my daughter the other night, its called situational awareness. Criminals will do anything they want,  to whomever they want, whenever they want because they don't care about laws or hurting others. If you are aware of your surroundings and the situations you come across, a potentially dangerous situation can be avoided. Looking to get the police  involved in not a coward move unless of course it is you. So again, if you aren't busy later, come on over, and better yet, I'll have my wife or daughter show you the business end of any weapon in my safe and then we  can discuss how you feel.

[Core]

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

I'm not disputing this. I'm only saying that at times, especially in sporting goods stores, that this does not happen. And knowing not only is the gun unloaded but also equipped with a trigger lock, there is no reason to get worked up over finding oneself. at the mistake of another, staring into the barrel of an unloaded gun. 

Go into dicks and ask to see a gun and every single time they hand you the gun they will unlock the trigger lock, then they will confirm that it's unloaded before handing it to you. Why are they confirming it's unloaded even though they "know" it was put back unloaded? Because you can never be entirely sure. That's why they do it, and it's also why you shouldn't be totally fine with somebody having an "unloaded" gun at you, because you're just never quite sure. 

Here you go
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety#Treat_firearms_as_if_they_are_loaded

[Uptown Redneck]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

28 minutes ago, Zem18 said:

 

 

What would you have done? Enlighten us. Would have tackled her? Would you have gone up and gave her a black eye? Would you have tried to reason with her? Would you have pulled out your concealed carry piece and taken control of the situation? Just curious how YOU would have handled it tough guy.

 

Very simple. I would have looked at her and calmly said, "I hope that thing isn't loaded" and then hearing that it wasn't, as this post has stated, then I either would have watched "the show" or continued on with my business. Never would I have even thought of calling the police.

As for someone holding a gun, or mistakenly pointing it in my direction, at the gun counter at Dick's it wouldn't concern me in the least  

Edited December 14, 2016 by Uptown Redneck

[Uptown Redneck]

6 minutes ago, Core said:

Go into dicks and ask to see a gun and every single time they hand you the gun they will unlock the trigger lock, then they will confirm that it's unloaded before handing it to you. Why are they confirming it's unloaded even though they "know" it was put back unloaded? Because you can never be entirely sure. That's why they do it, and it's also why you shouldn't be totally fine with somebody having an "unloaded" gun at you, because you're just never quite sure. 

Here you go
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety#Treat_firearms_as_if_they_are_loaded

Of all the guns I have handled and brought at my local Dick's never once have they ever removed the gun lock, nor have they ever checked any gun I was in the process of buying to make sure it was unloaded. 

[growalot]

Did I miss something...where was it mentioned she had a gun lock in place?