Mature Bucks

[buckman4c]

  Let me start by saying I completely understand hunting for mature bucks isn't for everyone. This topic is intended to get feedback from hunters who have consistently killed mature bucks on public land or private land which is hunted heavily. I'm from Pennsylvania but have hunted other states as well. I have hunted deer in New York, Virginia and Mississippi. I have been hunting for 36 years and although well seasoned have only killed one mature buck. I have "played" the waiting game off and on since 1992. What I mean by this is, I have passed on immature bucks for the most part since that time but on occasion for whatever reason I have killed bucks since that time. Here's the idea: 1993 until 1996 when I killed a buck, 1997-2004 when I killed (2) bucks, 2005-2009, 2010 to 2012 and 2013 to current day. As you can see I have been fairly patient in my quest to kill a mature buck. The year I shot (2) bucks is when I killed my only mature buck and it happened to be in Virginia. All of the Pa bucks were 2.5 year old eight pointers. I have had a few opportunities at mature bucks but just haven't been able to close the deal.

  With winter scouting in full swing I'm looking for ideas on tactics used by you savvy big buck killers to possibly improve my ability to see more of the mature bucks and to put a few on the ground. I will share with you some of the approaches and tactics I'm currently using. 2017 will be my fifth year of trying to put it all together. Any feedback is appreciated and let me add so it doesn't become the topic of discussion, there ARE mature bucks in the area I'm hunting.

  To further assist the process, the area I hunt is public land and what would be described as "Ridge and Valley". Imagine a tall ridge line with valleys to either side. The valley to the south has agriculture while the valley to the north has clear cuts and creek bottom thicket. The area is 5k acres in size. I do NOT have access to the south valley agriculture which is all private and owners who hunt themselves do not allow access. I can hunt the ridge top and to the north. I generally concentrate my efforts along the ridge top, essentially between the clear cuts in the north valley and the agriculture in the south valley. The ridge top is heavily forested with mature timber, acorn producing oaks etc.. There are also areas of rhododendron and pine stands.

  So, what tactics work for you on mature bucks??

  

[moog5050]

Check out Dan infalts videos, especially the one on hill county based on the area you describe.  Bedding points on leaword side 1/3 from top of ridge.  Hunting high in mornings and low in evenings to address thermals. 

Also check out hunting beast.  Some great discussions on strategy.   Some very good hunters all more than willing to share.  

[grampy]

Where is the thickest, nastiest, most impenetrable part of the area you hunt? Where is the best feeding area, closest to that thicket? Perhaps some mature oaks on a south facing slope, where the doe will be feeding too? Try to find a bench, brusy ditch, draw or overgrown spot, connecting the two. I Have a stand or set up, overlooking the connection, for both a NE and a SW wind if possible and only hunt when it's perfect. Try to save this set up until the bigger bucks will be on their feet during daylight hours. Typically the first half of November. This is just one general idea that has worked for me over the years. There are two things you must have, above all else. Patience and Perseverance!  Let me finish by saying, I am not by any stretch, an 'expert'!  I'm still learning from the deer I hunt, every year. But I've been fortunate to take a number of bucks between three and four years old, in a high pressure area of Albany county. On both public and private land. Best of luck to you this season!

[buckman4c]

Thanks for the input.

Here's a summary of what I've been doing since I started seriously bow hunting this area in 2013. My mission from the start was to scout and hunt as much ground as possible and eliminate areas with the ultimate goal of locating 3-5 solid stand "areas". I began by looking at topo and aerial maps to eliminate certain areas primarily because of other hunting pressure. I then began from the bottom up if you will. I found the north valley to be very attractive with plenty of deer sign, food, cover and water. However, closeness to the road and swirling wind quickly dampened my spirits.

  In the second year I started concentrating on the north side hill and looking for "funnels". What's rather unique about this area is the clear cuts run up to the base of the side hill. The wooded side hill is pretty steep in most areas and it contains rock formations. During the second year I sat in stands between rock formations or above small benches 1/2 way to 3/4 the way up the ridge. I liked this set up and did see a couple mature bucks chasing doe but I kept bumping deer trying to get down into these spots.

  Starting the third year I began hunting the top of the ridge, specifically in a saddle which had a rock formation on the north slope which funneled deer up the mountain. This stand was somewhat productive in that I saw deer on almost every sit but no mature bucks. I did a little bouncing around as well that year along the top and late in the season I missed a nice mature buck chasing a doe out of a rhododendron thicket. I also found another spot on a point side hill. Imagine a hollow cutting into the south ridge line and then branching  toward the east, This secondary hollow essentially cuts the mountain in half the long way creating a point. I hunted the north side of this about 200 yards from the end of the point. I found a bedding area on top of the point and followed a main trail to intersecting trails on the north slope and set up there. I had two encounters with mature buck but one only sported (4) total points. We have a (3) point rule Antler Restriction in which one side must have three points to be legal. The other mature buck actually bedded about 80 yards above me on a thick sloping bench and left the area without offering much more than a glimpse. This spot is thick with rhododendron and pine. I really like this spot but scent control must be optimized because of occasional wind swirl.

  Last year, I had limited time to hunt but through scouting and knowing of a particularly very large buck I found a large bench along the north ridge to hunt. I only hunted (3) times in early November but I saw a bunch of deer including (1) mature buck (not the one I was after but mature anyhow). Unfortunately, he didn't offer a shot. What I really liked about this stand was the deer activity was very consistent. They would approach from the upwind side and work toward my stand which is hidden behind a pine. They would then turn up or down the mountain, usually within shooting distance. I was not busted one time in this stand.

 I think this is long enough and gives you somewhat an idea of how I've been breaking down this hunting area. In my next post I'll bring you up to speed on my current scouting and look for feedback on how to approach yet another area I found.  

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Get away from people. The further you go in the better your chances. The last 3 years I have killed bucks that were aged at over 5 1/2 and the closest to the road was 1 1/2 mile from a dead end me dirt road that is over 10miles of the paved road.


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[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

Early bow ... 

[phade]

You should really be looking at hunting beast and hill country bucks DVD. While no single person has a perfect plan there is a lot to be learned there.

Lots of good and great hunters here. But, HB has knowledge that just doesn't exist elsewhere.

Look at the buck lineup from its members. Proof in the pudding.


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[gjs4]

Scout- find one- hunt him. No other way to do it and cannot missing one of those steps.



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[Buckmaster7600]

Scout- find one- hunt him. No other way to do it and cannot missing one of those steps.



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This may work for some but I have shot more mature bucks that I saw for the first time the day I killed him.


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[sodfather]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 3:58 PM, moog5050 said:

Check out Dan infalts videos, especially the one on hill county based on the area you describe.  Bedding points on leaword side 1/3 from top of ridge.  Hunting high in mornings and low in evenings to address thermals. 

Also check out hunting beast.  Some great discussions on strategy.   Some very good hunters all more than willing to share.  

This ^^^^^^...

[buckman4c]

On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 10:45 PM, Buckmaster7600 said:

Get away from people. The further you go in the better your chances. The last 3 years I have killed bucks that were aged at over 5 1/2 and the closest to the road was 1 1/2 mile from a dead end me dirt road that is over 10miles of the paved road.


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Buckmaster,

  This has long been a strategy of mine and continues to this day. For example the first day of rifle season, I hike 1 1/2 hours up and over a mountain ridge to the other side and hunt a bench 1/4 the way down. I see plenty of deer and no hunters but haven't struck gold on a mature buck. My rifle area isn't quite as good for mature bucks but it has some around. The bow area I'm speaking of, again, I essentially hunt in the "middle" of access from others. It's a good mile (straight line) through some tuff terrain and habitat to reach from the north. From the south it's a little less than a mile but most of that pressure is contained on the private land and very few hunters come into the public land from that direction.

Thanks for the input.

Edited February 27, 2017 by buckman4c

[buckman4c]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:57 PM, grampy said:

Where is the thickest, nastiest, most impenetrable part of the area you hunt? Where is the best feeding area, closest to that thicket? Perhaps some mature oaks on a south facing slope, where the doe will be feeding too? Try to find a bench, brusy ditch, draw or overgrown spot, connecting the two. I Have a stand or set up, overlooking the connection, for both a NE and a SW wind if possible and only hunt when it's perfect. Try to save this set up until the bigger bucks will be on their feet during daylight hours. Typically the first half of November. This is just one general idea that has worked for me over the years. There are two things you must have, above all else. Patience and Perseverance!  Let me finish by saying, I am not by any stretch, an 'expert'!  I'm still learning from the deer I hunt, every year. But I've been fortunate to take a number of bucks between three and four years old, in a high pressure area of Albany county. On both public and private land. Best of luck to you this season!

Good input here. Thanks. I would also say those of you posting about watching videos etc. that this is good information as well. However, what I'm really looking for is "your" specific approach. Like hunting funnels or scouting a particular buck and how it is you go about finding funnels or really determining the patterns of a particular buck.

I've tried hunting different "funnels", I have tried hunting "edges", I have tried scent control products with fall blend and without (explain results later), I've tried using a climbing stand to "hit and run" specific locations, well hidden hang on stands in place long before the season etc.. About the only thing I haven't "seemingly" tried is targeting a specific buck. Mainly because of my "soft" approach on public land bucks of trying to not disturb them. I usually base my hunting stand locations from previous years deer sign of rubs, scrapes, trails, beds etc.. I feel like I'm getting closer to sealing the deal but at the same time I feel like I'm missing something. Something obvious or small I'm not sure but a detail I'm overlooking in my pursuit.

I will say this about myself and that is I move around a LOT!! In terms of learning the "whole" area I believe this is beneficial but at the same time I may not be giving a particular stand location enough attention during the season. I explain my moving around off by saying I want to locate several specific stand locations which will be more productive over a long period of time. The wives tail (true or not, I believe it) that mature bucks will replace another and use the area in similar fashion. To give more perspective, if this third "area" proves itself, I will have (3) distinct locations to hunt for mature bucks. As the crow fly's, it's a 2.5 mile stretch of ridge from each of the furthest stand areas with another somewhat in the middle. It's my strategy to hunt (3) completely different "core" areas for mature bucks in order to maximize potential from year to year.

Again, any feedback on what I have just described is greatly appreciated.

[Buckmaster7600]

Good input here. Thanks. I would also say those of you posting about watching videos etc. that this is good information as well. However, what I'm really looking for is "your" specific approach. Like hunting funnels or scouting a particular buck and how it is you go about finding funnels or really determining the patterns of a particular buck.
I've tried hunting different "funnels", I have tried hunting "edges", I have tried scent control products with fall blend and without (explain results later), I've tried using a climbing stand to "hit and run" specific locations, well hidden hang on stands in place long before the season etc.. About the only thing I haven't "seemingly" tried is targeting a specific buck. Mainly because of my "soft" approach on public land bucks of trying to not disturb them. I usually base my hunting stand locations from previous years deer sign of rubs, scrapes, trails, beds etc.. I feel like I'm getting closer to sealing the deal but at the same time I feel like I'm missing something. Something obvious or small I'm not sure but a detail I'm overlooking in my pursuit.
I will say this about myself and that is I move around a LOT!! In terms of learning the "whole" area I believe this is beneficial but at the same time I may not be giving a particular stand location enough attention during the season. I explain my moving around off by saying I want to locate several specific stand locations which will be more productive over a long period of time. The wives tail (true or not, I believe it) that mature bucks will replace another and use the area in similar fashion. To give more perspective, if this third "area" proves itself, I will have (3) distinct locations to hunt for mature bucks. As the crow fly's, it's a 2.5 mile stretch of ridge from each of the furthest stand areas with another somewhat in the middle. It's my strategy to hunt (3) completely different "core" areas for mature bucks in order to maximize potential from year to year.
Again, any feedback on what I have just described is greatly appreciated.

I don't sit in stands or anywhere for that matter so I'm not much help there. The biggest thing about killing a mature buck is hunting areas where mature bucks are. With New Yorks seasons the way they currently are there is simply not a lot of mature bucks out there. There isn't one on every 20acre parcel. Where I live in the southern edge of northern zone there are very very few mature bucks. Where I hunt in the Adirondacks there are also very few mature bucks but the ones there are killable.


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[NFA-ADK]

Sounds like you are on the right path.  Try to find rub lines, this is a good indication of the bucks core area, typically where he likes to bed and feels safe.  Mock scrapes can bring in deer from a long distance, great way to invite the curious and with a cam you can tell what is in the area. 

Funnels: I tend to look for natural obstructions the deer would normally go around like a lake, steep ridge, road or any natural boundary they might go around or utilize like a beaver dam to cross an area.  Swamps, entry and exit usually comes out to a narrow spot next to a ridge.

Tracks: With all the snow still on the ground this is a great time to find core area's and simply just follow the track as long as possible to get an idea on where the deer likes to wander.  His pattern will change but if you hunt pre-rut you might be able to get him before he starts looking for doe.  Find the doe and where they like to bed, one thing is for sure big bucks will check this area, not just to see if doe are present but to scent check and see if they are starting to become receptive.  This is where setting up a doe in heat drip can work great if done at the right time!

Calling:  Simply put they get smart after 3 plus years in the woods and sometimes need to be coaxed into coming by your area during the daylight.  Doe calls, rattling and grunt calls all can work if done properly and at the right time, more is less!  Don't overcall or they will pin point you and realize it is not a deer, deer move so one calling in the same location set off alarm bells for them.

 

How I try to put it all together is through careful observation of the woods especially where the tracks are and what the deer are eating.  Then I will try and find a good location to still hunt them in thick area or find a good pinch point for ambush.  Or set up high for good observation and interpretation of how to hunt them.  Next I start calling once I find a good spot to hide, fawn calls early season, doe and buck calls late October - December.  I tend to get the best response from doe and fawn calls early mornings especially if you start before first light.  Buck grunts and doe calls I tend to use midday to late day.  Combination of doe in heat and buck tending grunt during the rut.  Rattling works great if the buck is a dominant one but does the opposite if they are not regardless of size.  Simply put some bucks are more aggressive than others, know what you have in the are can determine what calls you use.  I tend to use a grunt call set to about a 2 year old buck and try not to make him sound older as this is a deer most mature animals can beat up and is little threat to a big buck. 

Otherwise like many have stated boots to the ground will give you the best information to come up with a good game plan.  Play the wind to your advantage whenever possible.  Focus on area with deer prints larger enough to be at least 3 plus years old and verify with rubs area's.  Get up high when scouting it has been one of my best methods for finding deer, even if  you have to use a stand pre season.  Scout, I do not do much of this for other reasons but this is one of the biggest factors in guys who get mature deer almost every year, they line up more than one to hunt! 

Good luck!  Hope some of this helps!

[gjs4]

This may work for some but I have shot more mature bucks that I saw for the first time the day I killed him.


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What's mature to you?
The first hunt is always the best.

Maybe you have amazing ground, maybe you hunt a funnel during chase phase when the wind always coincides .... but that proclamation is a ballsy one. I pursue deer 4 and older (mature being 5 and older)- please share with us what we are missing using all this hard work and struggling. Thanks in advance.


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[Buckmaster7600]

What's mature to you?
The first hunt is always the best.

Maybe you have amazing ground, maybe you hunt a funnel during chase phase when the wind always coincides .... but that proclamation is a ballsy one. I pursue deer 4 and older (mature being 5 and older)- please share with us what we are missing using all this hard work and struggling. Thanks in advance.


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4 1/2, i agree that the first hunt is the best one. I hunt the Adirondacks the wmu I hunt has the 2nd lowest deer population in the state. I rarely hunt my home farm.

I am a tracker I wait until snow, cover ground until I find a track worth hunting then try to kill that buck sometimes that day sometimes a couple days later but after following a deer for a few miles he can teach you a lot about him if you listen.


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[dbHunterNY]

don't hunt mature bucks unless you're going to go somewhere else to find them.  rarely year after year can you hunt mature bucks in the same spot unless it's in an area with little hunting pressure or buck harvest.  don't hunt hoping to be in a good spot.  hunt with a plan and pay attention to details.  whether it's scouting an urban location to find one and sitting on stand when puzzle pieces fall together or cutting a track that you know is a good one up north.  you have to hunt what you know or have very good reason to believe is there and you have to go after it with a plan.  all the little details from gear prep to being scent conscious are important because just one of them can lead to a botched opportunity at a mature buck and they don't come along often with every mature buck.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 2/24/2017 at 3:19 PM, buckman4c said:

  Let me start by saying I completely understand hunting for mature bucks isn't for everyone. This topic is intended to get feedback from hunters who have consistently killed mature bucks on public land or private land which is hunted heavily. I'm from Pennsylvania but have hunted other states as well. I have hunted deer in New York, Virginia and Mississippi. I have been hunting for 36 years and although well seasoned have only killed one mature buck. I have "played" the waiting game off and on since 1992. What I mean by this is, I have passed on immature bucks for the most part since that time but on occasion for whatever reason I have killed bucks since that time. Here's the idea: 1993 until 1996 when I killed a buck, 1997-2004 when I killed (2) bucks, 2005-2009, 2010 to 2012 and 2013 to current day. As you can see I have been fairly patient in my quest to kill a mature buck. The year I shot (2) bucks is when I killed my only mature buck and it happened to be in Virginia. All of the Pa bucks were 2.5 year old eight pointers. I have had a few opportunities at mature bucks but just haven't been able to close the deal.

  With winter scouting in full swing I'm looking for ideas on tactics used by you savvy big buck killers to possibly improve my ability to see more of the mature bucks and to put a few on the ground. I will share with you some of the approaches and tactics I'm currently using. 2017 will be my fifth year of trying to put it all together. Any feedback is appreciated and let me add so it doesn't become the topic of discussion, there ARE mature bucks in the area I'm hunting.

  To further assist the process, the area I hunt is public land and what would be described as "Ridge and Valley". Imagine a tall ridge line with valleys to either side. The valley to the south has agriculture while the valley to the north has clear cuts and creek bottom thicket. The area is 5k acres in size. I do NOT have access to the south valley agriculture which is all private and owners who hunt themselves do not allow access. I can hunt the ridge top and to the north. I generally concentrate my efforts along the ridge top, essentially between the clear cuts in the north valley and the agriculture in the south valley. The ridge top is heavily forested with mature timber, acorn producing oaks etc.. There are also areas of rhododendron and pine stands.

  So, what tactics work for you on mature bucks??

  

I think the first step is to ask what you are considering a "mature buck"?

[phade]

57 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

don't hunt mature bucks unless you're going to go somewhere else to find them.  rarely year after year can you hunt mature bucks in the same spot unless it's in an area with little hunting pressure or buck harvest.  don't hunt hoping to be in a good spot.  hunt with a plan and pay attention to details.  whether it's scouting an urban location to find one and sitting on stand when puzzle pieces fall together or cutting a track that you know is a good one up north.  you have to hunt what you know or have very good reason to believe is there and you have to go after it with a plan.  all the little details from gear prep to being scent conscious are important because just one of them can lead to a botched opportunity at a mature buck and they don't come along often with every mature buck.

That is the unique thing about hunting - I see the opposite. When you find a mature buck, you will have a higher odds of finding another there the following year and so on and so forth until something macro-level changes that trickles down. This is even more specific when it comes to world-class bucks - I'll loosely define as 160 and up. I see them come from the same specific areas within good buck areas.

[buckman4c]

50 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I think the first step is to ask what you are considering a "mature buck"?

Thanks to everyone who has responded. Just to reiterate, I'm from Pa, I hunt public land in Pa and other states to include southern NY. I know NY isn't Pa but hunters are hunters and have certain approaches. The land area I'm talking about in the topic discussion is "almost" at my back door but I would be willing to share my approaches to other locations such as out of state.

I consider a mature buck to be 3.5 or older in Pa. Targeting anything older is really shooting for the stars in the areas I hunt. The area I hunt HAS historically produced mature bucks of 140" plus on a yearly basis and I know of (3) which have hit the 170" mark.

Edited February 28, 2017 by buckman4c

[BizCT]

Seems most young guys are looking for a mature (MILF). Yet, most older guys are looking for a youngin (18+).


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[BizCT]

Seems most young guys are looking for a mature (MILF). Yet, most older guys are looking for a youngin (18+).


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[dbHunterNY]

55 minutes ago, phade said:

That is the unique thing about hunting - I see the opposite. When you find a mature buck, you will have a higher odds of finding another there the following year and so on and so forth until something macro-level changes that trickles down. This is even more specific when it comes to world-class bucks - I'll loosely define as 160 and up. I see them come from the same specific areas within good buck areas.

i wasn't eluding to the same area producing mature bucks year after year.  macro-level things as you call them can trickle down to effect this.  the more mature a buck is the less of him are around. i was more getting at micro-level things that lessen your odds of hunting bucks of that same maturity multiple years in a row.  an example, a good antler growing year previous, that indirectly leads to higher numbers of the next younger age class bucks being taken.  someone else might shoot those top bucks well before the seasons out or maybe before you log significant hours hunt.  other hunters encroaching on another's "honey hole".  lots of other reasons, but the odds of taking a mature buck year after year in the same spot are against you.

[jjb4900]

33 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

Seems most young guys are looking for a mature (MILF). Yet, most older guys are looking for a youngin (18+).


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and most lower their standards when closing time is approaching.........

[BizCT]

and most lower their standards when closing time is approaching.........

That's correct. As the old saying goes here in NY, nothing good ever happens after 2am. It's better in other states where everything closes at 2 instead of 4 or 5am


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