Crossbow Bill S1386 is on the Senate Environmental Conservation Committee Meeting Agenda

[tughillmcd]

Crossbow Bill S1386 is on the Senate Environmental Conservation Committee Meeting Agenda

 

The Senate Environmental Conservation Committee will be taking up the Gallivan Crossbow Bill on Tuesday May 9 at 10 am. 

This is a major step to crossbow full inclusion. We will update everyone on the outcome after the meeting.

Is your senator on the list below? If so please call or write their office and request they vote to report S1386 out of committee to a floor vote.

Senate EnCon Committee Members

Joseph Addabbo 518-455-2322 [email protected]

Carl Marcellino 518-455-2390 [email protected]

Elaine Phillips 518-455-3265 [email protected] 

Thomas O'Mara 518-455-2091 [email protected]

Brad Hoylman 518-455-2451 [email protected]

Elizabeth Little 518-455-2811 [email protected]

Tony Avella 518-455-2210 [email protected]

Rich Funke 518-455-2215 [email protected]

George Latimer 518-455-2031 [email protected]

Kenneth LaValle 518-455-3121 [email protected]

Todd Kaminsky 518-455-3401 [email protected]

James Tedisco 518-455-2181 [email protected] 

Robert Ortt 518-455-2024 [email protected]

 

 

 

NYCC Newsletter

[grampy]

I love bow hunting and always will. But since I'm recovering from shoulder surgery, it would be nice to see this go through. One of the main reasons for having the surgery, was to be able to hunt bow season with my grandson. I may as well give up the ghost,if I can't be in the deer woods during bow season. This would give people like myself many more years of participation. 

[Larry]

It passed the senate last year but it has to get though both houses

[greg54]

Hoefully this will be the year for full inclusion.

[tughillmcd]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

It passed the senate last year but it has to get though both houses

A crossbow full inclusion bill passed the Senate in 2013 with no action in the Assembly. In 2014 the crossbow language was included in the executive and senate budgets resulting in the compromise we have today. There were bills introduced in 2015 and 2016 but there was no committee action in either the Senate or Assembly in those 2 years. This is the the first committee action since the budget of 2014.

We still have to get action in the assembly, but this is a necessary step and is a great step forward.

[BizCT]

any updates, or too soon?

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 9:41 AM, tughillmcd said:

A crossbow full inclusion bill passed the Senate in 2013 with no action in the Assembly. In 2014 the crossbow language was included in the executive and senate budgets resulting in the compromise we have today. There were bills introduced in 2015 and 2016 but there was no committee action in either the Senate or Assembly in those 2 years. This is the the first committee action since the budget of 2014.

We still have to get action in the assembly, but this is a necessary step and is a great step forward.

 

[grampy]

Well........how did it go?

[dbHunterNY]

26 minutes ago, grampy said:

Well........how did it go?

 

4 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

any updates, or too soon?

 

i don't know if results are officially posted yet but the crossbow bill S1386A passed to move out of committee.  still has to be read multiple times and scheduled for a floor vote though.  Some other bills passed and are moving out of committee too like the poaching bill that increases poaching fines.

[tughillmcd]

The Senate EnCon Committee passed S1386 Crossbow Bill out of committee this morning. We do not have the committee vote count at this time.

The next step is to have it placed on the Senate Calendar for a floor vote.

Once we have the vote count and a date for the Senate floor vote I will post another update

Edited May 9, 2017 by tughillmcd

[Core]

I met a bow hunter this past weekend who agrees with me and so many others that full inclusion is both inevitable and is also going to very negatively impact bow season. I remain shocked that gun-only hunters are not throwing up a huge stink (maybe the serious ones already use bow or crossbow anyway) because with more people using xbow and walking around the woods for 7 weeks, any area not totally under control of the gun hunter will suffer more pressure than ever before.

Maybe it's just best if we have full inclusion to include gun as well, season starts in Oct 1 and you get one tag and DMP if appropriate. With the rapid advances in crossbow we're going to see tag constraints increasingly come into play due to higher harvesting rates. I know you xbow guys are upset that bow has another several weeks, but there will be unintended consequences.

[BizCT]

Forget 10/1, I want 9/15 like CT with a shot at some velvet bucks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BizCT]

The Senate EnCon Committee passed S1386 Crossbow Bill out of committee this morning. We do not have the committee vote count at this time.
The next step is to have it placed on the Senate Calendar for a floor vote.
Once we have the vote count and a date for the Senate floor vote I will post another update

Sounds good, but what does this mean? Are we farther than years before?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, Core said:

I met a bow hunter this past weekend who agrees with me and so many others that full inclusion is both inevitable and is also going to very negatively impact bow season.

         He would be in the minority on this site.  Remember that poll, in the bowhunting section, that was showing support for full inclusion by a margin greater than 2:1, up until the time it "disappeared".  

         This bill has something for everyone, even those bowhunters, who don't want to share their time with folks who are not as strong or dedicated as themselves.   It will classify a crossbow  as archery equipment, rather than a muzzleloader, as it was the last three seasons   That means that the archery safety course will be required.  For the last three seasons, the crossbow has been allowed for two weeks in the peak of the rut, with only a gun safety course.   

       I hope it gets passed before this season because I live in a zone where the deer population is well above optimum.  I have struggled filling DMP's with a vertical bow, because there is so many deer that catching antlerless ones alone is rare.   Fooling multiple sets of eyes in close while making the draw is no easy task.  The crossbow eliminates the need for that, yet retains the quiet stealth of the vertical bow.  That adds up to a lethal combination for killing does.  That ability has been squandered the last three years, by holding it off until the last two weeks of archery.  By that time, the antlerless deer have gone mostly nocturnal after detecting the early archery hunting pressure.   Early deployment of the crossbow is the key to getting doe numbers under control.   That is particularly important after two non-winters, and increases in tick-born illnesses.

      The quietness of the crossbow is even more important than the elimination of the need to draw.   Letting firearms in early would backfire.  Those loud bangs would force the deer nocturnal even faster.    Full inclusion of the crossbow starting October 1 would finally give the DEC and hunters the tools they need to better control the deer numbers across the state.  That works to everyone's advantage.       

 

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by wolc123

[DirtTime]

3 hours ago, Core said:

I met a bow hunter this past weekend who agrees with me and so many others that full inclusion is both inevitable and is also going to very negatively impact bow season. I remain shocked that gun-only hunters are not throwing up a huge stink (maybe the serious ones already use bow or crossbow anyway) because with more people using xbow and walking around the woods for 7 weeks, any area not totally under control of the gun hunter will suffer more pressure than ever before.

Maybe it's just best if we have full inclusion to include gun as well, season starts in Oct 1 and you get one tag and DMP if appropriate. With the rapid advances in crossbow we're going to see tag constraints increasingly come into play due to higher harvesting rates. I know you xbow guys are upset that bow has another several weeks, but there will be unintended consequences.

What would those consequences be? Seriously?

There's a push to also include air rifles, and it seems most people don't have an issue with them, I wonder what season they will get shoved into when approved?

 

[Steve D]

One season..... Oct. whatever to Dec. whatever....X number of tags to be determined by the DEC...Shoot them with whatever LEGAL weapon of choice you want. We have way to many seasons and restraints to hunt what we want, when we want with the weapon we want to use.

[Core]

9 hours ago, ....rob said:

What would those consequences be? Seriously?

There's a push to also include air rifles, and it seems most people don't have an issue with them, I wonder what season they will get shoved into when approved?

 

I already mentioned the consequences and the post prior to yours between ours alluded to them as well: " By that time, the antlerless deer have gone mostly nocturnal after detecting the early archery hunting pressure."

Gun hunters are in for a real treat five years from now when xbow numbers are through the roof and everything has hunkered down well and truly by the time gun season starts. Any hunters already challenged with high pressure areas (like some public land I go to) are going to absolutely love coming in after the entire area has been hammered for almost two months by not just bow but ever increasing numbers of xbow. The deer will be sure to run off nice and early. The reason the current model works is only because of the fact so many people are not into vertical bow: either too old, or too injured or too lazy to make it work (practice time). A newb can dial in a crossbow and be shooting 400 fps in an afternoon with excellent accuracy and that's only going to get even more accessible as xbow tech keeps improving.

As for bow safety course mandate I don't see how that benefits a vertical bow hunter that now a crossbow hunter finally has to take the archery course.

Just wait and see: when xbow numbers explode gun will demand their season overlap as well. Look at SteveD's post above mine and the likes it has. If xbow hunters think they're going to now have 10 weeks of hunting without having to compete with gun they're in for a sore surprise in several years when the gun hunters get ever sick of sloppy seconds and all the deer hiding all day long.

[tughillmcd]

28 minutes ago, Core said:

I already mentioned the consequences and the post prior to yours between ours alluded to them as well: " By that time, the antlerless deer have gone mostly nocturnal after detecting the early archery hunting pressure."
 

Ohio has allowed crossbows during their entire bow season for 40 years. Their guns season is only 7 days plus a 3 day muzzleloader season. Their harvest rates for 2016 was

Archery 40,705 Antlered and 42,616 Antlerless
All Harvests 75,626 Antlered and 106,543 Antlerless
That means they had 34,921 Antlered and 63,927 Antlerless with only 10 days of gun and Muzzleloader combined. 

BTW, The Ohio Bow season runs from September 24th through February 5th. Ohio only allows 1 buck per hunter per season, and the gun hunters do pretty good for having the woods full of not only bow hunters, but crossbow hunters for a couple months prior to their very short gun season.

Data does not support you conjecture

[WNYBuckHunter]

13 hours ago, Core said:

I met a bow hunter this past weekend who agrees with me and so many others that full inclusion is both inevitable and is also going to very negatively impact bow season. I remain shocked that gun-only hunters are not throwing up a huge stink (maybe the serious ones already use bow or crossbow anyway) because with more people using xbow and walking around the woods for 7 weeks, any area not totally under control of the gun hunter will suffer more pressure than ever before.

Maybe it's just best if we have full inclusion to include gun as well, season starts in Oct 1 and you get one tag and DMP if appropriate. With the rapid advances in crossbow we're going to see tag constraints increasingly come into play due to higher harvesting rates. I know you xbow guys are upset that bow has another several weeks, but there will be unintended consequences.

This is a thread about the bill, not another debate on full inclusion. Start your own thread if you want to do that.

[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, tughillmcd said:

The Senate EnCon Committee passed S1386 Crossbow Bill out of committee this morning. We do not have the committee vote count at this time.

The next step is to have it placed on the Senate Calendar for a floor vote.

Once we have the vote count and a date for the Senate floor vote I will post another update

the unofficial agenda vote i saw seemed to be 4 yes, 3 yes without req, and 6 absent.  i don't know all the rules but apparently that's enough to hold quorum.  several bills before yours that got voted on with the same bodies present.  we'll see if that matches the official vote.

[Core]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

This is a thread about the bill, not another debate on full inclusion. Start your own thread if you want to do that.

Sounds fair

[wolc123]

Is it too late for full inclusion this season?  If not, what would be the latest date the bill could pass and still get it this fall?  Back in 2014, we found out in April that the crossbows got the last 2 weeks of archery season in the southern zone and 3 days in the northern zone (ML was open the last 7 up there).

Edited May 12, 2017 by wolc123

[nyslowhand]

In the past there have been changes to hunting regs that were too late to be published in the newest DEC hunting/fishing regs booklet,... BUT they were implemented for upcoming season anyways.

Optimistically - Encouraging that the newest Xbow legislation has made it further than in 2015-2016, as pretty much the same bill. Lets hope it doesn't get hacked-up like the one that got passed in 2014 giving us the current regulations. IRC - That's how it came out of the dreaded Environ Sub-Committee... Fingers crossed...!!!

Pessimistically - There are only 17 working sessions before the NY Senate & Assembly breaks for summer recess. After that most pending legislation seems to somehow get purged from their calendars!

Edited May 12, 2017 by nyslowhand

[nyslowhand]

On 5/9/2017 at 5:14 PM, tughillmcd said:

The Senate EnCon Committee passed S1386 Crossbow Bill out of committee this morning. We do not have the committee vote count at this time.

The next step is to have it placed on the Senate Calendar for a floor vote.

Once we have the vote count and a date for the Senate floor vote I will post another update

To anyone still following this legislation, this is status in NYS Senate as far as I could find:

May 15, 2017  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING

As far as I know, needs to be put up for vote in senate, passed to assembly for a vote, onto governor's desk before the summer recess and all with only ~11 "in session" working days left. Trying to be optimistic...!

[grampy]

6 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

To anyone still following this legislation, this is status in NYS Senate as far as I could find:

May 15, 2017  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING

As far as I know, needs to be put up for vote in senate, passed to assembly for a vote, onto governor's desk before the summer recess and all with only ~11 "in session" working days left. Trying to be optimistic...!

What needs to happen, for the Bill to be brought up for a Senate vote? Seems like this is dying in the same position as last year. Seems to still be a strong opposition, to seeing this go through. I see and understand the arguments on both sides of this. But feel inevitably, that this will come to pass, at some point in the future. But it doesn't look like it will be the near future. 

[nyslowhand]

FYI - Almost identical Xbow legislation got bogged down in the (NY Senate's? )Environmental sub-committee in 2015 & 2016. Also, there is overwhelming support for this type of Xbow legislation as shown in a couple of "hunter surveys" and amongst most sportsman, land mgmt and farm bureau types of organizations across NYS. The opposition (IMO) is coming from a small number of bow hunters and an affiliated organization basically creating a "squeaky wheel" protest. Sort of thought that the Governor adding it to his version of the latest NYS budget, it was getting his stamp of approval and might stand a fighting chance of becoming approved legislation. My bad...

Wish I knew the real inside story behind this Xbow legislation's 3yr battle! My theory is that the majority of NYS legislators being from the greater NYC area (or borroughs) view this legislation as irrelevant to the best interests to their constituents and probably think Xbows are best used for killing zombies. While ~90% of NYS (land-wise) is where Xbow legislation would directly affect the minority of NY legislator's constituents. Making any Xbow bill a legislation "math problem" and directly influenced by those who voice the loudest opposition, whether in the majority or not! No offense to the forum members from the greater NYC area, but you probably could admit your legislators do NOT serve your best interests in hunting, fishing or outdoors activities. Unfortunately, like grampy elluded to, Xbow legislation will eventually get passed, but only through years of wearing down the unbelievers or those uninterested elected officials.