The Psychology Behind the Quest For Trophy Racks

[reeltime]

without a doubt there are illegally killed deer every year, seasons are too long, the fines are a joke and there are nowhere near enough game wardens, all of this makes it a poachers dream, But again the number of poached deer is a small percentage of the overall deer take. YES we have a poaching problem as does every state but again not most of the big bucks are poached, all it takes is one jealous person to say so and that spreads like wildfire and soon everyone believes that it was poached.

 Not heresy,not jealousy and certainly  not my place to out these people but I don't lke hypocrites that have lots of skeletons in their closet.

if you know for a fact that a particular person poached game you can call tipdec and anonymously report it, turning a blind eye to known poaching violations will never help stop the issue.

The game wardens can only do so much without the help of sportsmen, but again the fines and revocations are a joke and until we get the fines and revocations higher and the courts to uphold said fines its going to continue as usual.

 

[nyslowhand]

Back on track...

Really hate to "pigeonhole" or categorize all deer hunters into distinct categories! Everyone has different reasons for being in the fall woods and their expectations from the hunt. BUT ... there does appear (JMO) to be a couple of main groups of hunters seeking mature (trophy?) bucks and with those obviously bigger racks.

An older hunter that has filled numerous buck tags over the years, more than likely attempts to add more challenges to his/her hunting experience. Can be either by using more primitive weapons, stalking, up close & personal encounters, etc or simply passing on younger bucks in favor of waiting for that big boy to show up. Obviously when these types of hunters are able to connect on a mature buck, it becomes a more fulfilling experience and to some extent an ego soothing situation. As stated previously, due to my age, I fall into this group seeking the challenge. I'm just as happy to high-five a friend, relative and especially a younger hunter for getting a nice buck. I'm not looking for any praise for what I accomplish and never have widely broadcast any BB harvest beyond a small circle of friends or family.

Granted, not all remaining hunters that seek BBs that don't fall into the "old farts" category can NOT be "pigeon holed" into another sole grouping!!! There does appear to be a group of deer hunters that might have been influenced in their early learning curve days in pursuit of BBs by social media, peer pressure, hunting camp or lease harvest restrictions or those absurd TV shows. If your early hunting experiences were tempered by the Holy Grail trophy rack propaganda, that might be what you think hunting should be all about. Along with this goes the "one-up-manship" or bragging rights mentality, both of which are to inflate one's ego among your peers. Sorry to say, but you're missing out on a lot of what hunting is all about!

So ... It's all about ego. Whether to soothe it or embellish it, hunting mature bucks with larger racks is an ego boosting endeavor! Betting few will actually admit this....

 

Edited June 27, 2017 by nyslowhand

[Doc]

Human behavior is a weird thing to contemplate. This thread has brought out a lot about hunter mentality, motives and expectations. It does seem like we are needing peer recognition, and that it is very important to us. We have even concocted a scoring system so that we know when we have won or when we can declare ourselves masters of the sport. hunting seems to have moved from a competition between the hunter and his prey to a contest between hunter and hunter. Maybe its always been that way. But why we have settled in on antlers as a way to measure hunter prowess, is still a mystery. Heaven forbid if you are a hunter that doesn't hunt deer. I guess those people have to invent their own little ways of measuring their worth ......lol.

[philoshop]

The guy who lived across the road from me had one animal mount in his house. It was a rabbit that his father had given him his first year of hunting after getting his first game animal. It wasn't even the same rabbit. He also had a wall full of skull caps with antlers that were very impressive just hanging from nails in his garage. When I asked him why he didn't have any of those mounted on the wall inside, he just said he had a good hunting spot and was lucky. He saw no need to brag about it.

A good friend from high school in the 70's has several entries in the P&Y book from the 80's and early 90's. He's taken bigger since then, and the locals know about them. He just doesn't brag about them to the media any more.

Edited June 27, 2017 by philoshop

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, philoshop said:

The guy who lived across the road from me had one animal mount in his house. It was a rabbit that his father had given him his first year of hunting after getting his first game animal. It wasn't even the same rabbit. He also had a wall full of skull caps with antlers that were very impressive just hanging from nails in his garage. When I asked him why he didn't have any of those mounted on the wall inside, he just said he had a good hunting spot and was lucky. He saw no need to brag about it.

A good friend from high school in the 70's has several entries in the P&Y book from the 80's and early 90's. He's taken bigger since then, and the locals know about them. He just doesn't brag about them to the media any more.

Loose lips will get you all kinds of problems in the hunting world. Just do your thing and stay under the radar.

[philoshop]

It's not even about that Four Seasons. Neither of them feel the need to brag about their accomplishments. They've outgrown it. People who can do it, and do it consistently, don't feel the need to brag about it.

[NFA-ADK]

Ego boost, you bet.  Weather or not that person shares it and declares I am the best is a whole different world.  With all the hours of shooting, hiking, practicing, tracking, planning then the final execution can be very climatic, at least for me.  Those final seconds of peak awareness when the buck is in view, unaware and I need to get on target when my nerves are starting to peak is something.  Possibly why I pass so many from a tree, it just seems to easy.  Same goes for young deer, I have had young buck and doe basically come right up to me in the woods or not run away when I came into view they did not represent a good challenge.  The ones I do go after, if it was a doe or a buck, usually out last or outsmart me.  I have found deer that are in the 3.5 and above represent the best challenge doe or buck.

Something about chasing older deer that adds another level to my enjoyment.  The antlers I do envy but that is not the real goal.  If I wanted antlers I would stop hunting the ADK they simply do not have the food to do it in most areas.  I blame this book for my evil ways, ever since reading it back in the late 80's all I ever wanted was to get a good ADK buck, it has corrupted my fragile mind, lol.  So did the Benoits, Salerno's, Peter Fiduccia.  I also really enjoy watching deer from a stand.  The observation and reaction to calling is fun to watch.  It also helps when I am tracking or scoping an area to determine what the sign says.  So I guess I am saying it is more about the challenge.  Would I shoot a brute that just walked in first day with little challenge, yes, then for me the real challenge is a perfectly executed shot.  All the other work and prep paid off. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion:  As the top predator chasing the Whitetail simply feels so right!  It is something that has been done for thousands of years.  Anyone that has been to a hunting camp or has been with a bunch of hunting friends know deer, especially the ones that got away can become stories of legend.  I love to celebrate the deer I have taken, to me they are beautiful and preserving them shows that off.  Seeing other have success, showing the beauties they have taken and the amazing stories with them helps take me on their adventure.  I think antler envy is in our genes as top predators.  Might be why some take it too far.  

In so far as showing off, yes some might do it just like sports it is part of the game some have to play and get the best.  My buddy has a few friends who have 170+ plus class deer that have never been seen outside of these houses, like stated before it is usually to keep outsiders out.  Most are very modest but guard the hunting location.  

[ATbuckhunter]

I never really thought about the psychology other then the fact that I want it. Its a challenge and I enjoy challenging my self at this point. Its the same as wanting to catch a big fish in my eyes

[Four Season Whitetail's]

6 hours ago, philoshop said:

It's not even about that Four Seasons. Neither of them feel the need to brag about their accomplishments. They've outgrown it. People who can do it, and do it consistently, don't feel the need to brag about it.

Oh trust me..I Know. But let word slip out of a buck or two that one has done homework on and its game on for some. 

[wolc123]

I went thru a stage where big antlers were my top priority.   I still appreciate the antlers and would prefer killing a small spike buck over any mature doe, and certainly a button buck over a doe fawn.  I never have any remorse after killing a buck, but I usually have a little after killing a doe.   I do my part, knowing that killing does is necessary to keep populations in check, and because a legal limit of two bucks is not enough to feed my family.  The selfish part in me is always a little sad after killing a doe, when I think of the loss of chances at the future bucks she may have produced.  I would love to see NY state allow a third antlered buck for those of us who purchase archery, gun, and ML licenses.

It is mostly about the meat for me, and while does and bucks taste the same, the bucks are faster and easier for me to process , usually having less fat to trim away.   The antlers provide a quick way to rough-age the deer on the hoof, especially the 1-1/2 year olds.   I try and avoid those early in the seasons.   I don't pass them to get larger antlers, but rather to get the additional meat that usually comes with those larger antlers.   Still, some meat is better than none, so late in the seasons the 1-1/2's move onto my hit-list.  To me, a 2-1/2 year buck provides just about the optimum combination of quantity and quality meat. 

I do appreciate the trophy hunters, even when they belittle me as a meat-hunter, or for taking smaller bucks.  My family has grown dependent on venison and we do live off the land and the waters of NY state when it comes to filling our protein needs.   Those little bucks and small fish the trophy folks pass on may be what keeps my family fed on a lean year.               

Edited June 28, 2017 by wolc123

[stubby68]

On 6/26/2017 at 5:53 PM, Papist said:

On 6/26/2017 at 5:53 PM, Papist said:

It's natural and normal to want to share one's accomplishments in all spheres and endeavors. Anyone claiming otherwise is a pompous ass. We enjoy sharing our successes and we enjoy other peoples enjoyment of our success. I also enjoy hearing about the success of others more than hearing them whine about how much they suck at everything

   I don't believe it is natural at all. I do not care if others know of my success in life nor do I care to know of theirs. Unless theirs some how affect my life or mine theirs then I see no reason for me or them to know of any accomplishments. Unless it is to gain praise from another and that is something I do not need nor to I give. I live my life for me and noon else so why should I care to tell of my or hear of anyone else's success or failures. How often have I given someone a congrats or posted pics of a deer on here saying look what I got. Only picks I have posted were to prove a point when asked for the profe. I do not need others approved and I am sure they do not need mine. 

If this makes me pompous then fine. I just do not care what others have accomplished in there life and do not care if they know what I have accomplished in mine. To me it is natural to mind my own business Sorry for me that is natural  plane and   simple. Do not care to say look what I did. Why do you feel it is natural to look for praise from others? Do you live your life to please others?

[NFA-ADK]

40 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

I do not care if others know of my success in life nor do I care to know of theirs.

That is fine if you only care about yourself.  I love hearing others success and looking at all the deer we get throughout the year, I like doe, small buck, weird bucks, strange racks and sharing with others.  The opposite attitude seems self centered to me and seems to be the norm with younger hunters or silver spoon syndrome as I like to call it.  I also like to share my knowledge, experience and show that anyone can gain information for hunters with no experience, sometimes the less experienced have some really amazing stories!  No two hunts or deer for that matter are the same and I enjoy reading and looking at the pictures and stories from any deer.

Reminds me of fisherman some don't tell anything, others will take you to the spot and show how its done!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

That is fine if you only care about yourself.  I love hearing others success and looking at all the deer we get throughout the year, I like doe, small buck, weird bucks, strange racks and sharing with others.  The opposite attitude seems self centered to me and seems to be the norm with younger hunters or silver spoon syndrome as I like to call it.  I also like to share my knowledge, experience and show that anyone can gain information for hunters with no experience, sometimes the less experienced have some really amazing stories!  No two hunts or deer for that matter are the same and I enjoy reading and looking at the pictures and stories from any deer.

Reminds me of fisherman some don't tell anything, others will take you to the spot and show how its done!

Yeah and says he has nothing to prove or does not care about showing what he has shot..Blah,Blah,Blah.........But still takes the time to take pictures of the kill??  Did he not say in a post that i dont need mounts and i dont need pics to show any kill?? So why the pic at all if its all about the meat and nothing else matters?  Kinda shows ya what merit that camp speaks from.

 

 

[stubby68]

39 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

That is fine if you only care about yourself.  I love hearing others success and looking at all the deer we get throughout the year, I like doe, small buck, weird bucks, strange racks and sharing with others.  The opposite attitude seems self centered to me and seems to be the norm with younger hunters or silver spoon syndrome as I like to call it.  I also like to share my knowledge, experience and show that anyone can gain information for hunters with no experience, sometimes the less experienced have some really amazing stories!  No two hunts or deer for that matter are the same and I enjoy reading and looking at the pictures and stories from any deer.

Reminds me of fisherman some don't tell anything, others will take you to the spot and show how its done!

       Far from silver spoon. And not an old hunter but not real young either. 50 years old . It is not called self centered. It is called minding my own business. Something people use to do years ago. Seems knowing what everyone else is doing and making sure everyone else knows what you are doing has become a national past time. Anytime someone shows another what they have or did or asks another what they have or needs to show what they have or tell what they did they are just looking for someone to praise them. Or looking to see if someone else needs praise. Most people these seem to live there lives to please others. Sharing knowledge is different then saying look what I did or look what I have or can do.

[stubby68]

47 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Yeah and says he has nothing to prove or does not care about showing what he has shot..Blah,Blah,Blah.........But still takes the time to take pictures of the kill??  Did he not say in a post that i dont need mounts and i dont need pics to show any kill?? So why the pic at all if its all about the meat and nothing else matters?  Kinda shows ya what merit that camp speaks from.

 

 

       Learn to read. I said the one single pic I take is for my dad and him alone. All other pics are taken by people who happen to be there at the time. They send them to me. The pics sent go straight to my gallery app and usually never get looked at again. The one to my dad goes in his hunting journal for his pleasure not mine. I do not have any picsuggestions of my kills before cell phone cams and it does not bother me a bit.  

             You are always trying to find something to make me look as despite and full of cap as you are. Why the obsession wit me. I am nothing li I ever you and if I was I would jump over the gorge the next time I was in the park

[growalot]

Quote

Why do you feel it is natural to look for praise from others? Do you live your life to please others?

First off this is in no way a bash or belittling your thoughts..that said I do have to ask you...Where you home schooled and do you own your own business? These questions because to answer your above question. Of course it is natural...people are raised from infancy to enjoy and seek the praise of others. It is taught to seek praise in all aspects of life. From family through out all of school and then in the work place. One seeks to make and full fill accomplishments then receive the praise and rewards for doing so.  There is nearly nothing in life that isn't geared toward receiving praise from one or more people in your life..  Good example ... ones Honeymoon...I'm thinking one would rather be told they were great in bed then  likea fish flopping on round on the shore...Wouldn't you think?

[TreeGuy]

I skipped reading all 7 pages... I am always after MATURE bucks. I am satisfied not getting a buck and passing on the younger guys all season. I find it requires more patience, and knowledge to consistently kill mature bucks. I like a challenge. If hunting was easy, I prob wouldn't enjoy as much or for as long. As far as antler size, typically mature deer will have large antlers. I have never poked at the guys shooting button bucks or have ever tried to say that my way is the right way. I get most hunters styles and why they hunt the way they do. On thing is for sure, in a perfect world where we all practiced qdm, we would all have the opportunity at mature bucks every year. Anyone that hunts deer will typically dream of that "big" buck in hopes of getting one, the problem lies where reality exists, not enough time, not enough land, not enough patience, not enough knowledge and you end up shooting something other than a mature deer. I get it. Freezer is full. Family fed and you can't eat antlers.

This is a subject that nobody can "win". Your relying on individual opinions, and they are too many. But take a step back from both sides, realize that changing people's style won't happen, unless done by laws. Me personally, I'd love to see an antler restriction put in place. It may be a tough couple years for some but I have a suspicion that after a few years we would all be seeing more big racked mature bucks.

I can't imagine any hunter dreams of that button buck on the night before opening day...

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[growalot]

There it is...... repeated several times:

1. it takes more skill

2. it takes more knowledge

3. it takes more patience

4. its more challenging

5. All young deer are easy. Whats a young deer? Apparently 3 1/2 and younger

Quote

I have never poked at the guys shooting button bucks or have ever tried to say that my way is the right way.

Quote

Me personally, I'd love to see an antler restriction put in place. It may be a tough couple years for some but I have a suspicion that after a few years we would all be seeing more big racked mature bucks.

Not picking on you tree guy it's just that your quotes are a prime example of what has been a repeat theme in this thread.  As I said before....  types of put downs without realizing it... The thought that all 31/2 year olds were easy hunts for the ones that got them,  thus lesser deer then a 41/2 ..lol Assumptions that the "trophy" guys put more of everything into getting their deer. It's there in black and white several places in here...

[stubby68]

50 minutes ago, growalot said:

First off this is in no way a bash or belittling your thoughts..that said I do have to ask you...Where you home schooled and do you own your own business? These questions because to answer your above question. Of course it is natural...people are raised from infancy to enjoy and seek the praise of others. It is taught to seek praise in all aspects of life. From family through out all of school and then in the work place. One seeks to make and full fill accomplishments then receive the praise and rewards for doing so.  There is nearly nothing in life that isn't geared toward receiving praise from one or more people in your life..  Good example ... ones Honeymoon...I'm thinking one would rather be told they were great in bed then  likea fish flopping on round on the shore...Wouldn't you think?

Was not home schooled. Do own my own business. Started it last year. I have never cared for or had the need to get praise from others. Like I have said I live to please myself not others. There is nothing I do that requires the praise of others. And I do not feel the need to put praise on someone else for something they do have done or have.

         Maybe if someone said they were going out and killing a 12 point buck at 11:32 am on the third day of season. And that they would make a perfect heart shot. And did exactly that.That might get some praise from me. Anything short of that is just life happening.

          This whole needing praise from others is nothing more then living life for others. I live for me

    As for the honeymoon. If I was happy with it then I couldn't careless. My life is in no way geared toward pleasing others. Moines is. Lives are steered that way. Not geared or ment for that.

        probably be a lot fewer problems in this world if people stopped worrying about what others thought of them.

.    I do the best I can in everything. Not to please others but because I see no use in doing things half arsed. 

[uberyan]

What/how you hunt is a product of how you were exposed to hunting and what your goal is. No one is more right or more wrong than the other.

I grew up in the city with close to zero personal hunting relationships. Maybe a friend of a friend had an uncle who hunted. So for me growing up, I figured a deer hunter did it solely for the mount with the big antlers because really, that's all they portray in cartoons and what not. I had no idea that hunting does or fawns was even a thing until I started getting interested in taking up hunting.

I guess some of that prior bias stayed with me, as I would like to take a buck and am not as interested in taking a doe or a fawn. I have this weird "no women, no kids" idea stuck in my head. I would look for one with a decent rack because I would def like to mount my first kill, maybe after that it may not be as important or maybe I'll decide I want my next one to be even bigger.

But that's just my motivation.

If I was hunting for meat on quantity base, I would probably look for deer that passed whatever sizing criteria.

If I treated deer meat as a delicacy or treat and cared less about quantity, maybe I'd look solely for fawns.

As long as they're legally done, the what or why doesn't matter.

[NFA-ADK]

Stubby68

Then I hope you do not have a customer service department.  Usually this is based on helping others with no though of yourself.  Again your mentality would not work very well in any business.  When things don't go well at your company do you just mind your own business or do you  talk to the representative at the front desk and tell them that the customer is first and always right, even if they are wrong?  Real easy to say I only need to take care of myself but I value my family friends and coworkers and try to help when ever possible.

Do I seek praise when I do instruction on deer hunting, no, it is nice to get it when some say THANKS that information helped me get my doe this year?  Sure but to say that is the reason people do it to get praise is again self centered, these people dedicate their free time and do not get paid for the services they perform and most that do this are modest and only want to help out and keep hunting as a tradition.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 hours ago, stubby68 said:

       Learn to read. I said the one single pic I take is for my dad and him alone. All other pics are taken by people who happen to be there at the time. They send them to me. The pics sent go straight to my gallery app and usually never get looked at again. The one to my dad goes in his hunting journal for his pleasure not mine. I do not have any picsuggestions of my kills before cell phone cams and it does not bother me a bit.  

             You are always trying to find something to make me look as despite and full of cap as you are. Why the obsession wit me. I am nothing li I ever you and if I was I would jump over the gorge the next time I was in the park

Dude,Your a joke..You talk a good talk and then show pics taken of just the mounted horns of a buck. If they meant squat they would not even have been saved. You say pics to your dad or whatever..So i take it he cares and likes to show others?  Or no i guess they just get filed away in his app somewhere also?

Not real sure i can read that last paragraph? 

[The_Field_Ager]

4 hours ago, stubby68 said:

   I don't believe it is natural at all. I do not care if others know of my success in life nor do I care to know of theirs. Unless theirs some how affect my life

Thanks for that piece of narcissistic philosophy Plato 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 6/25/2017 at 3:53 AM, Doc said:

I am curious as to what you all think is the motive behind "trophy-ism" in deer hunting. Does it have to do with the notion that the deer with the biggest racks represent the hardest challenge in deer hunting? Is there an assumption that large racks equate to increased deer intelligence? Is there some relationship between rack size and the craftiness of the deer? Perhaps it is just the notion that you have heard that better hunters get bigger racks and that rack size is a way of measuring success or hunting prowess. Maybe that relates to needed peer approval. Why do you want to get a big-racked deer? There is no right or wrong answer, I am just curious.

I've read the responses here Doc and I think I have a bit of a different take. I don't think it is as much the  psychology behind it as the millions of years of genetic encoding. I think as a species we have a desire and even a need to have our efforts acknowledged and admired. A hunter in those long ago times was granted stature based on how well they hunted. Females selected their mates on the basis of how well they provided. So I think the tendency is there in our very make up. Like anything else there are varying degrees of intensity. Why do we keep score in sporting events? To acknowledge the better players by saying they won. As a measure of a hunter I would think that a person that consistently takes the more mature animals would be viewed as the better hunter. Age and antler size are generally proportional. and the older and more experienced animals (prey) would have the greatest life experience and most survival knowledge.Therefore they would be the most difficult quarry to take.  . 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

18 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I've read the responses here Doc and I think I have a bit of a different take. I don't think it is as much the  psychology behind it as the millions of years of genetic encoding. I think as a species we have a desire and even a need to have our efforts acknowledged and admired. A hunter in those long ago times was granted stature based on how well they hunted. Females selected their mates on the basis of how well they provided. So I think the tendency is there in our very make up. Like anything else there are varying degrees of intensity. Why do we keep score in sporting events? To acknowledge the better players by saying they won. As a measure of a hunter I would think that a person that consistently takes the more mature animals would be viewed as the better hunter. Age and antler size are generally proportional. and the older and more experienced animals (prey) would have the greatest life experience and most survival knowledge.Therefore they would be the most difficult quarry to take.  . 

Boom!