Do You Support Crossbow Full Inclusion into the NY Archery Season?

[grampy]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

the bow hunter is lone wolf. he prefers the woods to himself. he needs the deer to be relaxed and easier to draw in close. he doesn't view archery season as the fun camp atmosphere that gun season is. he loves each season for its own uniqueness. 

land access is and will continue to be our biggest problem as hunters. and you can call me every name in the book and believe my stance is just my own and that nobody shares it. but i'm a blunt guy. more hunters is not what the bowhunter wants. our leases disappear, the farms and fields developed into housing tracks, our properties sold or our rights lost or the land we want to buy is out of our price range. all we hope for is less pressure during our season to help us be successful. Adding a much easier, gun like tool to a season just increases the number of hunters. as simple and as selfish as that. If you want to hunt with and around me, put in your time and hunt with the same surgical precision i do so we the deer dont know we're here.

 

flame suit on.

No flame suit needed man.  But the land access and hunter numbers issue will continue with or without the crossbow. Nothing ever stays the same.  Change, good and bad is inevitable. It's up to us as individual hunters to adapt or get left behind.

 

19 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

To me it has nothing to do with caring what another hunter uses, it's about preserving the integrity of a sport.....maybe it's more selfish to want to worm into a season that had always been set aside for something else....I don't know, I'm certainly not a selfish person, in fact I'd be more then happy to give the first week of archery totally to the recurve and long bow because I know how difficult that is and that's where the roots of archery hunting began.

"Preserving the integrity of the sport".  Hasn't that been thrown out the proverbial window since the inclusion of the compound bow?  

 

20 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

I just don't want people to think I shoot a crossbow when I tell I'm going out for archery. 

Respectfully saying, I myself, never give a rats patootie what others think!

[jjb4900]

2 minutes ago, grampy said:

"Preserving the integrity of the sport".  Hasn't that been thrown out the proverbial window since the inclusion of the compound bow?  

absolutely...that's why I'm all for the progression of seasons, wouldn't bother me one bit if I wasn't able to use my compound if there was time set aside just for the traditional guys.

Edited October 3, 2017 by jjb4900

[moog5050]

And I thought this thread would have a different result than those in the past ...... haha

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, grampy said:

........Change, good and bad is inevitable. It's up to us as individual hunters to adapt or get left behind.

Unfortunately that leaves no room for such things as tradition, or self-challenge. There are historical things that are worthy of preservation.

"Preserving the integrity of the sport".  Hasn't that been thrown out the proverbial window since the inclusion of the compound bow? 

And here again is that pesky old precedent thing again where each surrender bets future surrenders until the original concept can no longer be recognized. 

Respectfully saying, I myself, never give a rats patootie what others think!

Is that really true? Do we totally disregard how others represent an activity that we are personally dedicated to. Just as I don't want others to think that canned hunts in anyway represents what my hunting is all about, I also don't want people confused about the fact that I have chosen the vertical bow as my way of deer hunting. Yeah, I think I do personally give a rat's patootie regarding something that has been a near-life long activity. Sure I know I do.

 

[moog5050]

50 minutes ago, Doc said:

I was on the pro-compound side of the argument. I was laughing at the guys who claimed that the compound would provide the precedent for bigger and better things of the future.

So you started us down this slippery slope ..... Doc!  Just kidding.  I am more than happy to share the season with any hunter that uses any weapon that does not change the nature of the season, which to me is killing deer in a more natural state vs. on the run when the guns start blasting.  Seems to me that there is a very logical line that should not be crossed in defining archery, but I guess not everyone shares that same view.

But I do like John's suggestion of a week only for the recurve and longbow starting Nov. 4.  lol

I think once you have had enough successes, the hunt becomes less about getting a deer and more about the enjoyment of time out there and perhaps employing methods that increase the challenge.  It hasn't taken me too many seasons to realize that.  Admittedly, its easier for me to say knowing that I have a nice population of deer to chase on private property.  But I am seriously thinking of sticking with a stick and string through open season this year (at least when the weather is decent).  HOWEVER, I would never want to impose my preferences for how I hunt on the rest of the hunting community.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

And I thought this thread would have a different result than those in the past ...... haha

No......Nothing was ever resolved as far as the differences. The issues are the same. No reason for the discussion to come out any different.

[grampy]

11 minutes ago, jjb4900 said:

absolutely...that's why I'm all for the progression of seasons, wouldn't bother me one bit if I wasn't able to use my compound if there was time set aside just for the traditional guys.

But if were to "preserve the integrity of the sport" there would be "NO HUNTING" with a compound! It would  be traditional bows ONLY. So in the past, time was "set aside" for the inclusion of the compound.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, moog5050 said:

So you started us down this slippery slope ..... Doc!  Just kidding.  I am more than happy to share the season with any hunter that uses any weapon that does not change the nature of the season, which to me is killing deer in a more natural state vs. on the run when the guns start blasting.  Seems to me that there is a very logical line that should not be crossed in defining archery, but I guess not everyone shares that same view.

But I do like John's suggestion of a week only for the recurve and longbow starting Nov. 4.  lol

I think once you have had enough successes, the hunt becomes less about getting a deer and more about the enjoyment of time out there and perhaps employing methods that increase the challenge.  It hasn't taken me too many seasons to realize that.  Admittedly, its easier for me to say knowing that I have a nice population of deer to chase on private property.  But I am seriously thinking of sticking with a stick and string through open season this year (at least when the weather is decent).  HOWEVER, I would never want to impose my preferences for how I hunt on the rest of the hunting community.

You are right, I was on the wrong side of that one. Unfortunately it has taken many decades to actually see the result, and learn from the pattern.

I see the issue not so much of imposing my preferences on anyone as simply trying to preserve something that is worth saving. Not everything needs to suffer the pollution of change

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, grampy said:

But if were to "preserve the integrity of the sport" there would be "NO HUNTING" with a compound! It would  be traditional bows ONLY. So in the past, time was "set aside" for the inclusion of the compound.

And that is where it all began.....lol. Was that a good move? It all depends on where it all ends.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

I just don't want people to think I shoot a crossbow when I tell I'm going out for archery. 

it's funny because there is a sense of pride and accomplishment with the bow hunt that you know the average swinging dick cannot achieve. we're elitist right? lol

i don't want to be lumped in with bad gun owner either. i don't want to lumped in with canned hunters either. 

[moog5050]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

You are right, I was on the wrong side of that one. Unfortunately it has taken many decades to actually see the result, and learn from the pattern.

I see the issue not so much of imposing my preferences on anyone as simply trying to preserve something that is worth saving. Not everything needs to suffer the pollution of change

And you don't see a little hypocrisy in taking the position that the line you set for compounds is fine, but anything different than that is not?  Would you be willing to revert back to hunting with a traditional bow?  I don't agree with precluding compounds or cross bows, but think the argument would carry greater weight from a traditional bowhunter.  In any event, good luck with whatever weapon you choose Doc.

Edited October 3, 2017 by moog5050

[grampy]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

And that is where it all began.....lol. Was that a good move? It all depends on where it all ends.

We are all passionate with what we hold  dear to us, among those things, is hunting. Why else would we be on this forum. So in respectfully debating, it brings out many different opinions and views.  I read others and express my own.  In the process, very seldom are minds changed.  That is fine with me.  Guess we will just have to see, "where it all ends"?

[BigVal]

3 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

When we created it, the only reason we separated them was to keep the infighting to a minimum. I originally wanted to leave the crossbow threads in the bow hunting section. The site owner and some of us moderators discussed what to do, and this is what we decided upon.

 

Its funny though, the anti-crossbow crowd just cant help themselves, and visit the crossbow forum constantly just to piss and moan.

Not pissing and moaning. I click on it to learn and possibly change my opinion. I could say the same of pro cross bow people bitching about it as well. I'm here for the true opinions of all. 

[NYBowhunter]

Im baffled that some hunters get so upset and try to present an argument against allowing crossbows, youth season etc...i dont see how another weapon type would offend or ruin my hunting. Its like choosing to shoot a muzzleloader  during regular gun season , who cares. Guess as i get older, the means to the kill is less important to me. For me the end result is the same, meat in the freezer, enjoying nature and most important is sharing that full circle with family.  Let people enjoy a crossbow during archery, yes i agree they are easier to shoot then a vertical. I say have at it, life is way too short. 

[jjb4900]

50 minutes ago, grampy said:

But if were to "preserve the integrity of the sport" there would be "NO HUNTING" with a compound! It would  be traditional bows ONLY. So in the past, time was "set aside" for the inclusion of the compound.

right, the genie is already out of the bottle.....I've hunted with all three, never felt screwed out of anything. I don't care if it all gets lumped together, I'll still hunt with the same passion. But, I do like the separation of the season's...I know full well full inclusion will have very little impact as far as having the woods overrun with hunters....and I have killed deer with a crossbow, and I'll do it again, but I didn't walk away feeling the same sense of accomplishment that I get shooting one with my compound, and you really can't argue with a person's personal feelings. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by jjb4900

[brownclown]

No. My objections to full inclusion used to be that primarily based on my feeling that Xbows gave an unfair advantage. Although i still feel that way but to a much lesser extent, my main objection is safety. I don't want someone to be able to discharge a weapon by simply pulling a trigger. At least with a bow you have to draw (hopefully clearly identify vitals and know whats beyond your target as well) that process delays reflexes and requires a conscious thought process. Beyond my comprehension, obviously people still get accidentally shot with a bow but compared to accidental gun/hunting accidents the numbers just don't compare. When you start extending ranges, limiting vision and field of view reckless people simply need to pull a trigger. There are just to many out there that shoot at sounds, deer like objects or obscured and partially hidden "deer". Xbows are just too much like having a gun in bow season IMO.

[jjb4900]

2 minutes ago, brownclown said:

No. My objections to full inclusion used to be that primarily based on my feeling that Xbows gave an unfair advantage. Although i still feel that way but to a much lesser extent, my main objection is safety. I don't want someone to be able to discharge a weapon by simply pulling a trigger. At least with a bow you have to draw (hopefully clearly identify vitals and know whats beyond your target as well) that process delays reflexes and requires a conscious thought process. Beyond my comprehension, obviously people still get accidentally shot with a bow but compared to accidental gun/hunting accidents the numbers just don't compare. When you start extending ranges, limiting vision and field of view reckless people simply need to pull a trigger. There are just to many out there that shoot at sounds, deer like objects or obscured and partially hidden "deer". Xbows are just too much like having a gun in bow season IMO.

well, if discharging a weapon with the pull of a trigger is your concern, what do we do about the thousand of gun hunters who can do just that??

[brownclown]

1 minute ago, jjb4900 said:

well, if discharging a weapon with the pull of a trigger is your concern, what do we do about the thousand of gun hunters who can do just that??

Well that is one reason hunter orange is required in gun season and not bow. Me personally i try to hunt private land only at those times or Hunt bow only areas. i make sure i wear the orange and despite the extra effort often find my self in a climbing stand to avoid being on the ground. Im not sure what could be done, it makes no sense to me ever taking a shot unless 100 percent confident but you cant fix stupid.

[jjb4900]

5 minutes ago, brownclown said:

Well that is one reason hunter orange is required in gun season and not bow. Me personally i try to hunt private land only at those times or Hunt bow only areas. i make sure i wear the orange and despite the extra effort often find my self in a climbing stand to avoid being on the ground. Im not sure what could be done, it makes no sense to me ever taking a shot unless 100 percent confident but you cant fix stupid.

Blaze Orange is not required as far as I know..and if anyone is concerned about getting shot, they're more then welcome to wear it during any season.

[brownclown]

1 minute ago, jjb4900 said:

Blaze Orange is not required as far as I know..and if anyone is concerned about getting shot, they're more then welcome to wear it during any season.

sorry live on border with ct and was think of ct. Yes anyone can where it at any time but most dont during bow but will for gun. My point was simply that gun hunting has much higher accidental shooting percentages. I feel one of the contributing factors to the increase is people dont take the time to clearly identify targets and shoot reflexively because all that is required is to pull a trigger.

[Buck_shooter]

There are exceptions to everything but I see most of this as nothing more than entitlement. Kind of like "how can I get the benefits of archery season with the least amount of dedication and work?" I think archery season is something that should be worked for and earned, not just given to everyone who thinks they should be involved. If it's truly not that different from modern archery, why not just shoot a vertical bow? And before I get the arguments about being physically unable, I said there are exceptions and I do believe everyone should have the "opportunity" to enjoy all seasons. But able bodied individuals who chose not to put forth the effort for whatever reason should not be entitled to be involved. 

[grampy]

9 minutes ago, Buck_shooter said:

There are exceptions to everything but I see most of this as nothing more than entitlement. Kind of like "how can I get the benefits of archery season with the least amount of dedication and work?" I think archery season is something that should be worked for and earned, not just given to everyone who thinks they should be involved. If it's truly not that different from modern archery, why not just shoot a vertical bow? And before I get the arguments about being physically unable, I said there are exceptions and I do believe everyone should have the "opportunity" to enjoy all seasons. But able bodied individuals who chose not to put forth the effort for whatever reason should not be entitled to be involved. 

If this is true, I hope you are shooting a traditional bow. "how can I get the benefits of archery season with the least amount of dedication and work"  As the dedication and work to shoot a compound is nothing, compared to trad bows.  

[growalot]

Here's my final word..Hey NYS DEC I'm sitting here in 8N ...you know, where you want all those doe dead. Well I could have filled a tag opening day...But I had to hold at full draw so long having gotten busted by the does BB that my arm gave out...tsk,tsk,tsk ,tsk had I been using my cross bow...one dead doe....hhhmmmm

[tughillmcd]

1 minute ago, growalot said:

Hey NYS DEC I'm sitting here in 8N 

FYI, This is not the DEC's doing. DEC support's full inclusion crossbow as stated in their last Deer Management study. The laws need to be changed to allow DEC to put into effect any expansion of crossbow use.

Just Sayin!

[growalot]

I get it...just saying they want dead doe...Don't try restricting what hunters shoot be it animal or weapon,as far as xbows are concerned...They need to get their own back bone and start stepping on toes...Though, again they need to do it right...leave the restrictions and MANDATORY BOW COURSE

PS ...you did see the taunting emoji right?

Edited October 3, 2017 by growalot