What has changed?

[borntohunt10820]

As I read through the posts in the live from the woods thread, I m hearing grumblings of frustration . Be it few or no Deer sightings or weather.

When I bought my property, 17 yrs ago , 175 acres , all wooded, it had been logged and was so thick , it was hard to hunt. But the deer sightings and quality of the bucks was un real. 8 , 10 point bucks were common , many does together  with smaller bucks in tow.What has changed? I ' m older , have more time to hunt , but I' m seeing a few deer., nothing like 17 yrs ago. Frustration sets in and I find myself heading for the warmth of the  cabin .I always head back out for the evening hunt but still few  or no deer. What keeps the drive alive and why is the frustration common across all of NY state.

[borntohunt10820]

7 minutes ago, borntohunt10820 said:

As I read through the posts in the live from the woods thread, I m hearing grumblings of frustration . Be it few or no Deer sightings or weather.

When I bought my property, 17 yrs ago , 175 acres , all wooded, it had been logged and was so thick , it was hard to hunt. But the deer sightings and quality of the bucks was un real. 8 , 10 point bucks were common , many does together  with smaller bucks in tow.What has changed? I ' m older , have more time to hunt , but I' m seeing a few deer., nothing like 17 yrs ago. Frustration sets in and I find myself heading for the warmth of the  cabin .I always head back out for the evening hunt but still few  or no deer. What keeps the drive alive and why is the frustration common across all of NY state.

  Being warm and comfortable while on stand will keep you out longer which would lead to more sightings.

[The_Real_TCIII]

5 minutes ago, borntohunt10820 said:

  Being warm and comfortable while on stand will keep you out longer which would lead to more sightings.

True but it keeps everyone on stand and not moving around pushing deer lol

[borntohunt10820]

Food plots to attract and keep deer on the property.

This forum keeps the boredoom at bay for a little while.

[stubborn1VT]

Time for more logging?  Patch cuts will produce food and cover.  If I had my choice I would do a bunch of 1/4 to 1/2 acre patch cuts.  Then I would plan my stands based on access and dominant winds.  Then I would pick out a few of the cuts and turn them into plots.  I would use tops and a bit of hinge cutting to make bedding cover.  Easier said than done, I know.  It would be a fun process.  

I agree.  Deer are more nocturnal and harder to hunt than they were 10-15 years ago.  I saw tons of deer as a teenager.  Now it's just first and last light, before storms, and the occasional cruising buck.  I got gear so I can sit more hours.  It works for me, but can be a grind for sure.

[borntohunt10820]

I know I need to do more to improve the habitat, but I need time for that. In 2 yrs ,when I'm retired ,I'll have the time.Food plots are in the plans. 

[borntohunt10820]

I love to still hunt.That's how I got my doe on opening day. A better internet here would certainly cut down on my frustration.

[Floorabove]

I think the frustration in deer hunting rises quickly to the surface in an emerging generation of hunters who: 

1) Grew up with more "tv hunting" time than real woods hunting time. On the tv shows, they kill deer all the time. Not a lot of shows depict sitting in the woods enjoying time afield, even if that time afield is only watching blue jays and squirrels. I think "the shows" paint an unrealistic picture of game encounters. I grew up hunting squirrels,  so by the time I was ready to hunt deer, I knew where they hung, I knew how often I'd encounter them, I knew how they acted, and had already looked at dozens of deer in my scopes crosshairs.  Not a lot of squirrel hunting goes on these days, but I'd argue there is not much that better prepares you for pursing deer. 

2)Think that it is necessary to have: multiple stands,scent control clothing, scent control soap/detergent,laser rangefinder,cameras all over gods green earth,evercalm (whatever the F that is),330 fps bows, magnum rifles,expandable broadheads,,deer calls,deer rattles, etc, etc, in order to be a serious deer hunter. After spending all the money on all that "gear"  one could  begin to think that killing a deer is forgone conclusion. When no deer is killed, frustration arises. 

3) Have their hunting limited by time and geography.  I read on here of a lot of people who need to make fairly lengthy drives to hunt, and/or can only hunt certain times( weekends/holidays etc). I am thankful that I can walk out my door and be afield. When the weathers right, I hunt, if it's not good, I do something else. I have to drive 20min to the marsh I duck hunt. That drive alone restricts the amount of duck hunting I do, more than anything else. 

Best of Luck to All  

My advice for fighting the frustration: Feel the good energy that comes from being outside. Look up and  around, not down at your phone/call/rattle or other distractions.  Spend as much time in the woods off season as you can 

Relax, and don't take it all so seriously.

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy K]

I'll second that the neighbors are doing plots most likely . Our neighbor has many large food plots which I have no desire to compete with , the bedding area where I hunt is an overgrown Apple orchard that recently had trails cut through it for my buddy to practice for GNCC (dirt bike riding) . I believe those 2 things have really led to the drop off of deer in our hunting location.

[Robhuntandfish]

The difference might be as you said. When you bought it the land was logged and had a lot of thick stuff. In 17 years maybe it needs to be logged again to allow that undergrowth to thrive again which is cover, safety and security for deer as well as a food source

[vizslas]

All I have is under growth and oaks, So it does make it difficult to archery hunt. more so than not I dont see them until they are just about on stand with me.  Food its all about food and cover thats all they need. Right now the  wet lands i hunt in Pendelton is full of acorns, they may be small but there is a lot of them. I have been getting fewer deer on camera and now the pics i get are not bucks but a doe and her fawn at 4 am.No feed in the field and i see no deer. tons of sapplings and small brushy undergrowth. and with the temps in niagara county and the wind, deer sightings have dropped off to nothing. But I will keep going out. maybe a doe will come through late one morning on her way to bed. Nocturnal deer thats my answer. I hunt near a new development thats on the north end of the creek and the west side is a road with houses that i can see through the woods. this limits what I can get away with, mostly west winds. tough location

[borntohunt10820]

No doubt about it that it needs more understory growth. My plan for next year is to cut as much as I have time for. Build a few box blinds to get my old butt out of the wind and rain , to be more comfortable on stand which will keep me out longer. My younger brother came up from Florida this week and I feel bad that he has only seen  few deer. He has plans to come up next year, so I need to make some changes.  As we sit here having lunch , a small doe runs across the field in front of the house , go figure.

Edited November 22, 2017 by borntohunt10820

[LET EM GROW]

Give deer food, cover and water and they have no real reason to leave. Natural browse, as well as food plots and hard soft mast trees. Give them a sanctuary or 2 and water. If your land doesn't have good green growth on the forest floor maybe it needs to be thinned/logged again. Do certain sections at a time. I have a small parcel that was the same way, used to see tons of deer. Last few years the deer sightings were slim. Thinned some trees, gave the deer some good eatings and they are being visible again. 

[dbHunterNY]

17 years ago with a hay day for deer population. it has since gone down a little. still a plenty of deer though.  on less than 200 acres you can burn out spots and doe family groups have you figured out. what have the neighbors done?  if you don't know then there's no point in talking and you should instead find out.  maybe they're shooting more deer or maybe they're logging and doing things to pull deer to them more than in the past.  maybe there's less pressure there before than in the past, so the deer chill out while waiting for you to leave?  could be a lot of things.  we started practicing QDM years ago and it's gotten better ever since. barely scratched the surface of habitat stuff yet, so there's still room for improvement.

[borntohunt10820]

2 hours ago, dbHunterNY said:

17 years ago with a hay day for deer population. it has since gone down a little. still a plenty of deer though.  on less than 200 acres you can burn out spots and doe family groups have you figured out. what have the neighbors done?  if you don't know then there's no point in talking and you should instead find out.  maybe they're shooting more deer or maybe they're logging and doing things to pull deer to them more than in the past.  maybe there's less pressure there before than in the past, so the deer chill out while waiting for you to leave?  could be a lot of things.  we started practicing QDM years ago and it's gotten better ever since. barely scratched the surface of habitat stuff yet, so there's still room for improvement.

Funny you mention the  neighbors, I didn't  want to go there, but here's the scoop.I m surrounded by Amish. They all have a ton of kids and they all hunt. But to be honest , there was more young kids that hunted then than there is now. I practice QDM, I let the small deer walk, but I bet it does little good.Over the years , I have recovered and tagged more gut shot , butt shot , or crippled deer than I can count.They will shoot a Fawn just as easily as a buck. If it's brown it's down, you can't eat the antlers they tell me. But what I'm hearing on this forum, is the same as what is going on here .Very few deer being seen. I don t want to be able to bait, but I think the DEC goes a little overboard. Next year maybe no doe urine, really ??

[Robhuntandfish]

there was an Amish family not far from here - they were busted for having 7 deer hanging and it wasnt even season 

[Jeremy K]

19 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

there was an Amish family not far from here - they were busted for having 7 deer hanging and it wasnt even season 

Ya, Electricity aint the only thing they don't believe in.  They also don't believe in using a square or following the law.

[E J]

With the amount of acreage you are talking about you should get a forester involved to see what you have for timber value before you go cutting trees all over the place. Just my two cents

[Iluvracks1359]

I have to say that I think hunting pressure is limiting the herd sizes. I used to see 20-30 deer out across from my parents house every fall through winter when I was a kid. Then someone decided to lease the land adjacent to it to a hunting club and on opening day it sounds like a legit war zone in there. Ever since then the numbers have dropped considerably. While I drive the sled through there and see deer tracks everywhere during the winter, I still feel that the hunting pressure has certainly dropped the herd size considerably, and this is pretty much the case anywhere there is a large population of hunters. Also, if people were more selective when shooting bucks, you would start seeing more 8's anmd 10s on the property.

[Uncle Nicky]

What has changed in 17 years:

1). More bow hunters, which means more pressure and human movement in the woods before gun season starts, and more deer killed earlier

2). Deer numbers ARE down since 2000, at least in NY & PA

3). More deer die opening day, since rifles are allowed in almost every zone now (used to be shotgun only)

4). Less people putting on "drives", so deer don't need to move as much

5). Less people in the woods moving deer around

I have to be honest, in 45 years of deer hunting, the only place I have seen multiple deer moving all day long was in Texas. My whole hunting carer locally, seeing one or two bucks a day and a few does in a day was about as good as it ever got, even during the heydays of the 90s and early 2000s. YMMV

[Doc]

6 hours ago, borntohunt10820 said:

......What has changed? .....

I have a longer view of hunting than most, with 57 years of unbroken deer seasons to look at, and I have seen a lot of significant changes that impact our hunting.

1.... Many of the prime deer-movers have been discontinued. The big drives, and the ever-wandering still hunters have turned into sitters that keep the deer anchored in their sanctuary cover areas. Without deer being moved, the impression is that there are none.

2.... People have become much more selective in what deer they will shoot at, and so the shooting seems to be a lot more quiet.

3.... Hunters are way less enthusiastic and energetic than they used to be. State parking lots that used to be over-flowing into the shoulders along the highway now seem to have only a half dozen cars in them.

4.... Hunters vacate the woods at lunchtime or before.

5.... After opening day, most hunters now find something else to do. if they come out at all, they seen to be 1/2 day hunters

6.... Open hunting land is at a premium now. Where years ago posted signs were an oddity that were seldom seen, now it is the odd parcel that is not lined with signs. Much of the private land is un hunted or under-hunted, and the deer simply stay where it is quiet and safe. Again, giving the impression that there are no deer.

7.... Yes, as has been mentioned, the food plot frenzy is in full swing which tends to keep deer anchored to a particular parcel of land.

The list of changes goes on and on and most of the changes give the impression that the deer herd is diminishing, when what is really diminishing is the pressure that hunters are applying to keep deer moving. there appears to be as many or more deer out there if you place any credibility in the DEC numbers, but when you are sitting out there listening to the long periods of dead silence, you begin to get a much different opinion.

Before the flood of replies start that claim that there area sounds like the Battle of the bulge throughout the season, I must add the disclaimer that my comments regard my area of hunting and what can easily be observed from where ever I happen to be hunting on any given day of the season. But I have to also say that I have heard and read similar comments from a whole lot of other people with similar observations.

[borntohunt10820]

Doc, I see you are in wny.What areas do you hunt . I'm probably overlapping your areas so what your saying ,greatly can effect me. Thanks

[stubborn1VT]

On second thought, I blame your frustration on Rage broadheads, Halo rangefinders, Lonewolf treestands, Primos grunt calls, the tv program Bone Collectors, and, of course, Evercalm, a scent meant to replicate those found in whitetail bedding areas.

[The_Real_TCIII]

Funny you mention the  neighbors, I didn't  want to go there, but here's the scoop.I m surrounded by Amish. They all have a ton of kids and they all hunt. But to be honest , there was more young kids that hunted then than there is now. I practice QDM, I let the small deer walk, but I bet it does little good.Over the years , I have recovered and tagged more gut shot , butt shot , or crippled deer than I can count.They will shoot a Fawn just as easily as a buck. If it's brown it's down, you can't eat the antlers they tell me. But what I'm hearing on this forum, is the same as what is going on here .Very few deer being seen. I don t want to be able to bait, but I think the DEC goes a little overboard. Next year maybe no doe urine, really ??

When we look at leases the proximity to Amish is a major factor

[wfmiller]

This year has been tough. I've gone a week now without seeing a deer, my dad has seen one in the last 10 days. Biggest thing around us is that no one is hunting anymore, so the deer aren't being bumped at all anymore. The deer we have are bedded down by daylight and don't move until after dark. It's getting frustrating but we just keep going out there day after day.