Argument Over Shortening Gun Season

[nyantler]

I often say that those who advocate for shorter seasons can do that voluntarily on their own... but it doesn't seem like there is much interest by those individuals in getting that ball rolling. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by nyantler

[nyantler]

15 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Nah..own 900 acres but never step foot on it.  The snow excuse is weak at best as we hardly ever get any amount until December anyways and gun has already been open for 6-7 weeks by then.  Shorter season would help the herds in many ways with stress just being one of them.

If it takes a guy 6-7 weeks to fill a couple tags they need to either find another hunting area or take up golf.

Thinking snow in the ADK's is not the driving force for many ADK hunters means you know absolutely nothing about hunting there. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

13 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Your  not reading the data right the data shows  there close to flat in the last 10 years  .

Even though the population has grown in the last 10 years which means there down overall same with fishing licenses.

 

a 30,000 increase is flat? Dude, you need to stop, youre starting to sound like you eat crayons.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thinking snow in the ADK's is not the driving force for many ADK hunters means you know absolutely nothing about hunting there. 

Hunting at our camp up in Colton at Barney pond never found us with a snow issue effecting harvests. Chopping two weeks of the beginning or the end of the season would not harm many. A split season would even be better. Using the Hunters in the Daks is using the least amount of hunters involved in hunting in the north when talking hunting.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

12 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

If we cancel the gun season then there will be huge Boone and crocket bucks everywhere, you'll be tripping over them, swatting them away like flies, like seagulls at the beach.  

Maybe we should shorten the season, have ARs of 5 points on one side, can only hunt with traditional bows, outlaw doe urine and set the hunting time to only a half hour after sunriae and before sunset.

That should do it.....lol. Huge bucks for everyone that still hunts. 

Making such an extreme statement only shows that you really dont understand management concepts at all. Its fine if you dont care, but dont be whining when you arent seeing deer. It has nothing to do with large antlers, those are a by product of proper management, as is what most would consider good hunting, you know, when you dont have to drive deer out of their hiding spots just to get a glimpse of them.

[stubborn1VT]

5 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Making such an extreme statement only shows that you really dont understand management concepts at all. Its fine if you dont care, but dont be whining when you arent seeing deer. It has nothing to do with large antlers, those are a by product of proper management, as is what most would consider good hunting, you know, when you dont have to drive deer out of their hiding spots just to get a glimpse of them.

Pretty sure he was being facetious.  That means he wasn't being serious. By the way, I agree with you about proper management.  A healthy deer herd makes for great hunting, and covers up some of the stupid things that that states do in "managing" said herd.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 minute ago, stubborn1VT said:

Pretty sure he was being facetious.  That means he wasn't being serious. By the way, I agree with you about proper management.  A healthy deer herd makes for great hunting, and covers up some of the stupid things that that states do in "managing" said herd.

Oh I know he was being a bit facetious with that particular statement, but if you read what he has said on the subject, its pretty obvious that he just doesnt get it, or maybe he just doesnt care.

[phade]

I often say that those who advocate for shorter seasons can do that voluntarily on their own... but it doesn't seem like there is much interest by those individuals in getting that ball rolling. 

We average less than 9 days afield between gun and MZ. We do OK. Can’t remember the last time I personally clocked more than 9 days in gun season.

Seems like people assume too much sometimes.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

13 hours ago, Storm914 said:

Your  not reading the data right the data shows  there close to flat in the last 10 years  .

Even though the population has grown in the last 10 years which means there down overall same with fishing licenses.

 

Actually with NY's population going down (our population has NOT grown) and the license sales flat the % of participation in hunting would be going up. 

[stubborn1VT]

2 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Actually with NY's population going down (our population has NOT grown) and the license sales flat the % of participation in hunting would be going up. 

Don't you ruin a good argument thread with your logic and mathematics!

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

a 30,000 increase is flat? Dude, you need to stop, youre starting to sound like you eat crayons.

Not sure what number you reading but 

There not using them as much  at least not on public land i see less hunters around .  Like others have said either it is that ,or there getting family members to buy licences to give to someone else .

 

[Hunter007]

44 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Actually with NY's population going down (our population has NOT grown) and the license sales flat the % of participation in hunting would be going up. 

Lol like others  here have said we dont know if it is 1 guy hunting buying 3 or 4 licenses by getting his wife and kids gradba  to get them . Or some other scam .

Or if there are legitimately being sold by individual Hunters that are hunting 

This is new York State.  Lots of 

Corruption in gov 

Who here see  more hunters on the road opening  day  now then 20 or 30 plus  years ago if your old enough to remember because I don't see it.

Edited December 27, 2017 by Storm914

[Robhuntandfish]

1 hour ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Making such an extreme statement only shows that you really dont understand management concepts at all. Its fine if you dont care, but dont be whining when you arent seeing deer. It has nothing to do with large antlers, those are a by product of proper management, as is what most would consider good hunting, you know, when you dont have to drive deer out of their hiding spots just to get a glimpse of them.

making such a statement shows you dont grasp sarcasm ......it was tounge in cheek.  I do get it and I do care .  I care that because you want bigger bucks that you cant tell everyone else in the state that they have to hunt when you think its best.  That there doesnt need to be yet another regulation put on hunters and that we actually dont need the govt to help decide which deer to shoot.  Sorry you didnt get it 

[Doewhacker]

5 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

and that we actually dont need the govt to help decide which deer to shoot

The next thing you know they will making us buy permits that tell us what deer to shoot and when!

Wait they already do.

For me, a shorter season has nothing to do with bucks, its all about healthier deer. Less stress=healthier

Also if a shorter season means less bozo's breaking laws  (baiting, trespassing, ect) then great. Would having less hunters in NY be a bad thing? Yes we need new hunters but do we really need the most hunters in the NE?

 

[Doewhacker]

20 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Lol like others  here have said we dont know if it is 1 guy hunting buying 3 or 4 licenses by getting his wife and kids gradba  to get them . Or some other scam .

Or if there are legitimately being sold by individual Hunters that are hunting 

This is new York State.  Lots of 

Corruption in gov 

Who here see  more hunters on the road open day  now then 20 or 30 years ago if you old enough to remember because I don't see it.

What color crayon are you eating now and how does it taste?

You judge numbers of hunters state wide based on cars you see parked where you live?   Makes sense.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

23 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Who here see  more hunters on the road open day  now then 20 or 30 years ago if you old enough to remember because I don't see it.

I think there has been a cultural shift that has influenced how we perceive participation. the days of the big hunting groups are gone. The days of the big deer drives are about gone.  Having fewer guys in a group opens smaller parcels of private land that will fit the hunting needs. Couple that with the sale and break up of so many large parcels of private land  and I can see how the long lines of tail lights headed up to state land on opening weekend disappeared. There has  been a BIG shift in hunting styles.  This is allowed  by the technology advances. Treestand, high tech clothing that allows hunters to sit all day.  I can remember struggling to stay warm enough to stay on watch for a few hours. That forced movement, bumping deer and more shooting.  This year I didn't hear a single 5 shot volley . 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[WNYBuckHunter]

38 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Not sure what number you reading but 

There not using them as much  at least not on public land i see less hunters around .  Like others have said either it is that ,or there getting family members to buy licences to give to someone else .

 

Just because you see something on the state land you hunt, doesnt mean much for the state as a whole except for there were X number of hunters at that spot on that day at that time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

27 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

making such a statement shows you dont grasp sarcasm ......it was tounge in cheek.  I do get it and I do care .  I care that because you want bigger bucks that you cant tell everyone else in the state that they have to hunt when you think its best.  That there doesnt need to be yet another regulation put on hunters and that we actually dont need the govt to help decide which deer to shoot.  Sorry you didnt get it 

And right there shows me that you do not get it. We arent talking ARs (voluntary or mandatory), this has nothing to do with bigger racks, and in no way is shortening the season telling anyone what deer to shoot. Its all about lower pressure and herd health equaling better hunting whether you are a meat hunter or trophy hunter or anywhere in between.

[Hunter007]

24 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

What color crayon are you eating now and how does it taste?

You judge numbers of hunters state wide based on cars you see parked where you live?   Makes sense.

  and talking to other hunters .

I  have hunted  lot of different places from Chenango County to Westchester County and in between . 

Years ago there definitely were more people hunting 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Storm914

[WNYBuckHunter]

Just now, Storm914 said:

  and talking to other hunters .

I hunt have hunted  lot of different places from Chenango County to Westchester County and in between . 

Years ago there definitely were more people hunting 

Most private land, you dont see cars parked on the road, etc. Out of all of the places I hunt, theres only one stand where I park right on the road and only during some wind conditions. The rest of the time, Im parked by barns or behind hedgerows or down tractor roads, etc. Youd never think there was someone hunting there if you are just driving by.

[Hunter007]

 

1990	17,990,455		2.5%
2000	18,976,457		5.5%
2010	19,378,102		2.1%
Est. 2016	19,745,289		1.9%
The   population has increased not decreased By over 300,000  from 2010 to 2016  And if you add up all the illegals and undocumented it's even more then that  You guys want to belive what you want to believe I guess i guess . 30,000 more statistically nothing to speak off when at the same time the population grew by more than 300,000

[moog5050]

59 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Lol like others  here have said we dont know if it is 1 guy hunting buying 3 or 4 licenses by getting his wife and kids gradba  to get them . Or some other scam .

Or if there are legitimately being sold by individual Hunters that are hunting 

This is new York State.  Lots of 

Corruption in gov 

Who here see  more hunters on the road opening  day  now then 20 or 30 plus  years ago if your old enough to remember because I don't see it.

And assumption No. 4 for you in this thread.   At least you are consistent.  And who can prove that you are wrong about this one too since there are no verifiable means to prove you are right or wrong.  But of course those that buy tags for others in the household for their own personal use must be a new phenomenon and something that didn't occur 10 years ago (to the extent it occurs at all).  Clearly that is what caused more license sales, because you say so, and because it fits your agenda. 

[moog5050]

10 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

 

1990	17,990,455		2.5%
2000	18,976,457		5.5%
2010	19,378,102		2.1%
Est. 2016	19,745,289		1.9%
The   population has increased not decreased By over 300,000  from 2010 to 2016  And if you add up all the illegals and undocumented it's even more then that  You guys want to belive what you want to believe I guess i guess . 30,000 more statistically nothing to speak off when at the same time the population grew by more than 300,000

Additional licenses would be 10% of the population growth while hunters only make up approx. .03% of the population based on license sales.  This means statistically that participation is growing at a great rate over the last 10 years.  For what its worth though, the most hunting license sales occurred in 1984 (as far as I can tell) and NY is down from that number.  So at least base your argument on a longer period.

[Hunter007]

8 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

And assumption No. 4 for you in this thread.   At least you are consistent.  And who can prove that you are wrong about this one too since there are no verifiable means to prove you are right or wrong.  But of course those that buy tags for others in the household for their own personal use must be a new phenomenon and something that didn't occur 10 years ago (to the extent it occurs at all).  Clearly that is what caused more license sales, because you say so, and because it fits your agenda. 

That wasn't my theory someone else here said that I just repeated what they said on another thread .

The Assumption about corruption also that's actually what you hear media and even actual politicians from this state say on tv 

But did you see the  population chart I just posted there was a  increase in population  

 

 

[moog5050]

1 minute ago, Storm914 said:

That wasn't my theory someone else here said that I just repeated what they said on another thread .

The Assumption about corruption also that's actually what you hear media and even actual politicians from this state say on tv 

But did you see the  population chart I just posted there was a  increase in population  

 

 

I saw it Storm and explained the significance in my last post.  I have to work now but best of luck with advancing your argument.