What's your brush gun

[Jdubs]

1 hour ago, moog5050 said:

Remember, he missed!

But he killed that brush dead! 

Besides, even dinsdale hasn't dropped an invisible Predator. 

[wolc123]

Shotgun zone: Smooth bore Ithaca 37 16 gauge with 1.5X Weaver scope and foster slugs, or Remington 870 12 gauge with open sights if it is rainy.   Rifle zone: Marlin 336BL 30/30 with open sights.    The two shotguns have never failed me in the brush, but I have not got a chance to try the rifle yet.    It is tough to beat a foster slug in those conditions.   The high rate of fire of those pumps comes in real handy if the first shot does not connect.  I don't mind picking a little bark out of my venison.      

[NFA-ADK]

The brush I have to go through sometimes is crazy, not shooting usually crawling or standing on my tippy toes when I can't crawl, lol.  For me the easiest and best gun for up close and personal in heavy cover will always be my Winchester model 94 in 44 mag.  Easy to carry, follow up and target acquisition is rock solid even after the shot.  Love the 30-30 and 35 but I don't like the extra weight compared to the 44 mag.  If I had to shoot past 65 yards I would want a better round but this round has proven effective multiple times for me and usually I don't get many shots past this distance. 

[sodfather]

5 hours ago, Jdubs said:

Minigun

SARGENT!!!!!!!!!!

[sodfather]

870 

[Buckmaster7600]

It's funny different some of our ideas of a brush gun are. To me a brush gun is a gun that is going to be carried for long distances and be used on short range shots.

I wouldn't be caught dead hunting these conditions with a 9 or 10lb shotgun like some of you do. I'm sure many of you come from shotgun zones of years past and old habits die hard.


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[wolc123]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

It's funny different some of our ideas of a brush gun are. To me a brush gun is a gun that is going to be carried for long distances and be used on short range shots.

I wouldn't be caught dead hunting these conditions with a 9 or 10lb shotgun like some of you do. I'm sure many of you come from shotgun zones of years past and old habits die hard.


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Who is using 9 and 10 pounders ?  Both of the ones I listed are under 7 pounds with the Ithaca 37 "featherlight" 16 gauge closer to 6 pounds with 5 slugs in it.   The Marlin 512 Slugmaster that I use for most stand hunting is a close to 10 pounds and is definitely not a good brush gun.  

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Who is using 9 and 10 pounders ?  Both of the ones I listed are under 7 pounds with the Ithaca 37 "featherlight" 16 gauge closer to 6 pounds with 5 slugs in it.   The Marlin 512 Slugmaster that I use for most stand hunting is a close to 10 pounds and is definitely not a good brush gun.  

Im  at  8Ib or 7.75 Ib to be exact 

I would like to get something under 6

Edited January 10, 2018 by Storm914

[TreeGuy]

I have the lightweight hunter in 308 for long walks / drives in the rifle zone

Through the crap on a drive I'll take the ole 870 open sights in shotgun zone

If I had to shoot through some twigs I'd prefer the savage 220 as it will thread needles but much prefer to not take those shots






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[Lawdwaz]

13 hours ago, Storm914 said:

I like slugs for brush hunting 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is some good reading for you. 

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11612707/1

The "heading" for this thread is under "Hunting Rifles" and nowhere is the use of a shotgun/slug mentioned but......it doesn't matter.  Slugs deflect as much as centerfire rifle bullets or more.   You'll notice in a couple places that the 243 is mentioned as a top performer.  You'll also see that some of the posters said, "get closer" or "pick a hole in the brush".  A good quality scope is going to be much better for that than those dreaded open sights.

Give me my .243/7mm-08 etc and quality glass and I'll get the job done.

I had a small hole to slip the little 6mm bullet through and did, right here............

 

[Hunter007]

8 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Here is some good reading for you. 

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/11612707/1

The "heading" for this thread is under "Hunting Rifles" and nowhere is the use of a shotgun/slug mentioned but......it doesn't matter.  Slugs deflect as much as centerfire rifle bullets or more.   You'll notice in a couple places that the 243 is mentioned as a top performer.  You'll also see that some of the posters said, "get closer" or "pick a hole in the brush".  A good quality scope is going to be much better for that than those dreaded open sights.

Give me my .243/7mm-08 etc and quality glass and I'll get the job done.

I had a small hole to slip the little 6mm bullet through and did, right here............

 

I can show you  tests that say the exact opposite big slow projectiles  less deflection.  

But I don't fault anyone who uses a speedy round your thoery could work some times also .

 

 

[silent death]

A test was done bye a you tuber iraqvet8888 he did a test on what caliber is a brush gun check it out .

Edited January 10, 2018 by silent death

[Hunter007]

8 minutes ago, silent death said:

A test was done bye a you tuber iraqvet8888 he did a test on what caliber is a brush gun check it out .

Yep saw it 

[wolc123]

Two counter arguments to the light bullet better in brush theory:

1)  One reason that more areas have opened up for rifles recently is that shotgun slugs have been shown to cause more injuries.  The theory on that is that higher speed, lighter weight rifle bullets fragment upon striking brush, whereas the heavier, slower slugs push thru.

2) When the army switched from .30 cal to .223, the enemy was a little safer behind trees.

 

That said, I agree that using good glass to find a clear path for a light fast bullet thru the branches is a good option in fair weather, but futile in the rain.  

 

    

[Lawdwaz]

11 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

 

 

That said, I agree that using good glass to find a clear path for a light fast bullet thru the branches is a good option in fair weather, but futile in the rain.  

 

    

Lens caps might set you back $24

I’ve never killed a deer with any open sighted shotgun or rifle because I’ve never carried one.  Also, rest assured rain or snow has never kept me in camp or at home. 

Any thought that open sights are an advantage is silly.  

If your looking for a challenge or need to scratch a nostalgic itch, open sights are for you.  You’ll kill more deer with a scope....easily. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Lawdwaz

[Hunter007]

25 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Two counter arguments to the light bullet better in brush theory:

1)  One reason that more areas have opened up for rifles recently is that shotgun slugs have been shown to cause more injuries.  The theory on that is that higher speed, lighter weight rifle bullets fragment upon striking brush, whereas the heavier, slower slugs push thru.

2) When the army switched from .30 cal to .223, the enemy was a little safer behind trees.

 

That said, I agree that using good glass to find a clear path for a light fast bullet thru the branches is a good option in fair weather, but futile in the rain.  

 

    

Or if the deer is moving even slowly it would be hard to get the right clean  spot through the brush  to take that shot 

I suspect the tests done showing high speed bullets and scopes finding a clean spot to shoot through never took into account that deer move around and don't always stand still to get that perfect shot through the Brush. 

In theory it should work 

And even using a big heavy bullet you never know , either way for sure if its going to work . 

That is why I don't fault anyone for using a fast round it could work out anyway for someone .

Edited January 10, 2018 by Storm914

[steve863]

Slow moving bullets or slugs on scopeless guns is 40 + year old philosophy.   The guy with a scoped rifle in any of the popular bolt-action rifle calibers will put MORE deer on the ground than anyone adhering to the old philosophy, I will guarantee you that.  Plus, how about if the guy carrying that scopeless gun in .35 Rem happens to stumble upon a deer at 150 yards plus in an open field walking in or out of his thick brush stand??  He might as well wave at it with his hat, because odds are he won't be able to kill it.

 

 

 

[Jdubs]

9 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Two counter arguments to the light bullet better in brush theory:

1)  One reason that more areas have opened up for rifles recently is that shotgun slugs have been shown to cause more injuries.  The theory on that is that higher speed, lighter weight rifle bullets fragment upon striking brush, whereas the heavier, slower slugs push thru.

2) When the army switched from .30 cal to .223, the enemy was a little safer behind trees.

 

That said, I agree that using good glass to find a clear path for a light fast bullet thru the branches is a good option in fair weather, but futile in the rain.  

 

    

You really should start citing your behind as the source for this stuff you post.

When a projectile hits a twig/branch, it is going to deflect and possibly tumble.  The degree to which that happens will be determined by far too many variables to provide an exact answer that can be applied as a rule of thumb.  It does not "push thru" like some kinda laser beam unaffected by the obstruction.  Suffice to say, accuracy to the target and penetration will be adversely affected versus making a clean shot.  You might get a kill shot on a deer or you might not.  Me personally, I'm going for the clean kill shot every time.

To claim that using a scope in the rain is "futile", making open sights the only viable option, is about as baseless a claim as anything you normally post.  I know you refuse to spend a few bucks on a scale, but any other hunter knows that a good scope paired with flip-up lens covers is very effective when hunting in foul weather.  Magnification can definitely help a hunter to thread the needle through an opening among branches; again, hardly "futile" as you claim.  However, my method of hunting isn't to snap-shoot through brush at an obscured or moving target and hope for a kill.  

 

[Buckmaster7600]

This is what's awesome about hunting there are a million ways to skin a cat.

I have closets full of guns that I consider "brush guns" because most of my hunting is done still hunting/tracking in the big woods. Short fast shots are the norm. If I'm shooting at a running deer and I hit a twig I don't plan on that shot making it to the intended target that's why there will be another one on its way in a quick hurry!

There has been study after study and there is no such thing as a "brush cartridge" because after the bullet hits brush you have no idea where it's going.

If I was doing a drive through the swamp behind the house my gun choice would be a lot different than a gun I'm going to be toting for 10 miles on a day when I'm hunting the ADK's but they would both be "brush guns."

I like and agree with the theory of using an accurate small caliber round with a scope as a brush gun and one day if I ever become a better tracker and get more chances at shooting deer that are still in their beds I might switch to something like that but it sure is hell trying to find that hole when you jumped the buck 15ft from you that's hauling ass for the next county. Until then I want to shoot a cartridge that's capable of sending a bullet from hooter to tooter or tooter to hooter and any angle in between of a deer giving me an entrance and an exit hole. In a gun and hats capable of fast follow up shots. If the weather is nice I would way rather have a low power scope with as close to a true 1X as possible. Flip up caps are nice and I have them on every scope I own but flipping caps open aren't something I want to spend time doing so if it's raining or snowing or if there's snow on the brush I carry a gun with a peep.


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[Hunter007]

6 hours ago, Jdubs said:

You really should start citing your behind as the source for this stuff you post.

When a projectile hits a twig/branch, it is going to deflect and possibly tumble.  The degree to which that happens will be determined by far too many variables to provide an exact answer that can be applied as a rule of thumb.  It does not "push thru" like some kinda laser beam unaffected by the obstruction.  Suffice to say, accuracy to the target and penetration will be adversely affected versus making a clean shot.  You might get a kill shot on a deer or you might not.  Me personally, I'm going for the clean kill shot every time.

To claim that using a scope in the rain is "futile", making open sights the only viable option, is about as baseless a claim as anything you normally post.  I know you refuse to spend a few bucks on a scale, but any other hunter knows that a good scope paired with flip-up lens covers is very effective when hunting in foul weather.  Magnification can definitely help a hunter to thread the needle through an opening among branches; again, hardly "futile" as you claim.  However, my method of hunting isn't to snap-shoot through brush at an obscured or moving target and hope for a kill.  

 

It's kinda of depends on how you like to hunt if your in a stand or blind you usally have more time to find a clear shot throw the brush with your scope  but if your walking stalking usally things happen fast  your not going to have the time to wait a lot of times.  And if you want to know  what projectiles  of different sizes does as it goes throw brush  here  is a simple test  throw a brick 

Throw brush and then throw a small rock throw  bush and see which one flys  straighter  throw it . 

That example is a visual physical demonstration of what happens with bullets weights  of  different sizes. 

While not exact it give you the general idea of what is happening 

Newton's first law states that an object at rest tends toremain at rest, and an objectin motion tends to remain in motion with a constant velocity (constant speed and direction of motion), unless it is acted on by a nonzero net force. Note that the net force is the sum of all the forces acting on anobject.

The bigger the  heavier the  bullet the more it wants to keep going in the same direction. 

 that is why a lot of guys like

45-70 

slugs 

35 rem 

30-06 With 220 grain bullet 

anyway for me a usally hunt shotgun only zone so  I use what have to use.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Storm914

[Buckmaster7600]

It's kinda of depends on how you like to hunt if your in a stand or blind you usally have more time to find a clear shot throw the brush with your scope  but if your walking stalking usally things happen fast  your not going to have the time to wait a lot of times.  And if you want to know  what projectiles  of different sizes does as it goes throw brush  here  is a simple test  throw a brick 

Throw brush and then throw a small rock throw  bush and see which one flys  straighter  throw it . 

That example is a visual physical demonstration of what happens with bullets weights  of  different sizes. 

While not exact it give you the general idea of what is happening 

Newton's first law states that an object at rest tends toremain at rest, and an objectin motion tends to remain in motion with a constant velocity (constant speed and direction of motion), unless it is acted on by a nonzero net force. Note that the net force is the sum of all the forces acting on anobject.

The bigger the  heavier the  bullet the more it wants to keep going in the same direction. 

 that is why a lot of guys like

45-70 

slugs 

35 rem 

30-06 With 220 grain bullet 

anyway for me a usally hunt shotgun only zone so  I use what have to use.

 

 

 

 

 

Hunted the "brush" my whole life and I don't know a single person that hunts with a 45-70, slugs or 30-06 with 220gn bullets. I'm the only one that I know of that use's a 35 rem. Most everyone I knows that hunts the "brush" uses 30-06, 270 or 308.

 

The theory on a brush caliber simply doesn't work in real life. If a bullet of any size/weight hits a substantial branch it will most likely not hit where it was intended. The distance between the object and the target has way more to do with the outcome than the projectile or what it came from.

 

By your theory an arrow should be the best for shooting through brush it's heavy slow and big but I have had arrows deflected by many feet from branches I couldn't even see.

 

 

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[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Hunted the "brush" my whole life and I don't know a single person that hunts with a 45-70, slugs or 30-06 with 220gn bullets. I'm the only one that I know of that use's a 35 rem. Most everyone I knows that hunts the "brush" uses 30-06, 270 or 308.

 

The theory on a brush caliber simply doesn't work in real life. If a bullet of any size/weight hits a substantial branch it will most likely not hit where it was intended. The distance between the object and the target has way more to do with the outcome than the projectile or what it came from.

 

By your theory an arrow should be the best for shooting through brush it's heavy slow and big but I have had arrows deflected by many feet from branches I couldn't even see.

 

 

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I should have mention the shape effects how it is  going to react when it hits something.  Arrow has more surface area that can hit something and less mass/weight  for its size and  vanes /feathers that can catch on branches easily  .so many different things . In geneal what I said  is what is supost to happen  . 

 

Anyway i am stuck with using a shotgun most the time .

I don't worry about it much I use what I feel like using .

If it is legal to use. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Storm914

[moog5050]

29 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Hunted the "brush" my whole life and I don't know a single person that hunts with a 45-70, slugs or 30-06 with 220gn bullets. I'm the only one that I know of that use's a 35 rem. Most everyone I knows that hunts the "brush" uses 30-06, 270 or 308.

 

The theory on a brush caliber simply doesn't work in real life. If a bullet of any size/weight hits a substantial branch it will most likely not hit where it was intended. The distance between the object and the target has way more to do with the outcome than the projectile or what it came from.

 

By your theory an arrow should be the best for shooting through brush it's heavy slow and big but I have had arrows deflected by many feet from branches I couldn't even see.

 

 

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I don't know buckmaster.  I can tell you that phade bounces around a lot more if I push him into a pile of brush than I do when he pushes me into that same pile.  Not that I am heavy or slow!

[Hunter007]

 

If you want to compare arrows then compare arrows 

another demonstration that will show you that theory   take a store bought  arrow and compare it to  a home made arrow made  out of a solid steel rod of the same length and diameter the solid rod which will way a hell of a lot more will go throw brush with less deflection then a light Carbon arrow when you try and launch them . 

the heavier and denser the material you compare the more obvious it will be .

 

 

 

 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

 
If you want to compare arrows then compare arrows 
another demonstration that will show you that theory   take a store bought  arrow and compare it to  a home made arrow made  out of a solid steel rod of the same length and diameter the solid rod which will way a hell of a lot more will go throw brush with less deflection then a light Carbon arrow when you try and launch them . 
the heavier and denser the material you compare the more obvious it will be .
 
 
 
 
 

But it will still deflect, my original point is still that any bullet that touches something on its way to the target has drastically less chances of hitting intended target. Therefore choosing a cartridge to shoot through brush is not a good idea.


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