For Or Against Full Inclusion

[Hunter007]

2 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Well if they are not the same why isn’t it in gun season ...

I hear crickets and doors slamming..

You can use you xbow In gun and muzzle loading season so there you go your all set .

 

[reeltime]

59 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Records from Ohio and PA have shown that most have indeed switched to the crossbow, because it is marginally more efficient and effective overall. 

care to share where there is credible evidence of this "switch"?  I know a lot of pa bow hunters that still carry a vertical bow and I see far more carrying a vertical bow in and out of the woods than a crossbow.  while since its inception it had generated more archery tag sales it has also brought along quite a bit of dissension between archery/crossbow/rifle hunters.

 

59 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

There are lots of situations where the compound bow comes out on top however.  That is why, even after 40 years, there is still significant usage of them in Ohio.   Stalking thru a corn field would be easier with a compound for example, or almost any still-hunting thru and around cover.   Even hunting from a tree-stand, around branches where there is not a rest, seems easier with a compound.  That takes away any valid reason to let the compound in before the crossbow.   only in your world, then again in the next part you admit that the crossbow minimizes the challenge...I will highlight it for ya.

The valid reason for letting the traditional equipment (longbows & recurves) in earlier is that there is few or any situations where they are more efficient or effective, but many folks (natural born fighters) who enjoy the challenge.  Those of us who are natural born killers would never have a use for such things, because we always seek to minimize challenge that impedes a kill.   nbk that's funny right there.

 

New fighters are born every day though, so there will always be folks wanting to use traditional equipment.  I feel that those willing to put in the added time and effort to become skilled with a traditional bow deserve an earlier shot at the deer.  That certainly does not apply to the compound bow however.     

so a complete newby can pick up a compound and with less than a dozen shots be sinking bullseye's out to 30-40 yards? the more you type the more people will wonder just how much experience you really do have. If you are even going to attempt to say that shooting a compound is just as easy as a crossbow the replies should be worthy of more popcorn.

 

I don't mind the current mechanical restrictions on crossbows in NY.  I have done ok with an entry-level model.  It did not cost much but has put all three bucks that I shot at with it down inside of 40 yards, after they took the bolt.

I paid $20.00 for my first compound bow a 50lb bear blacktail hunter when I was 11 years old killed a half dozen or more deer with that bow,  heck I can just about run as fast as the arrow flys outa that bow lol.  what a weapon costs has no merit to its killing ability the only thing that does is shot placement.

 

I would be ok with airbows in gun season but not in archery.   to play devils advocate,,,, why not? its a more efficient weapon and you natural born killers always seeking to minimize challenge.

 

 

[Doewhacker]

16 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I hear crickets  

 

I am surprised a man of extreme intelligence such as you doesn’t know the history and reason why it is what it is. 

NYB was pushing to not allow crossbows like they always do and the law was getting passed much to their dismay so what they did was push to have it not considered a bow, weak lawmakers agreed so they could go home and say they accomplished something. This later brings us to what we have today where a new law needs to be passed to let DEC decide what to do with it. DEC has to consider it a muzzle loader by law not by choice or common sense. So if it can’t be considered a bow by law and they need to have it covered in the safety course that left them with no other choice but to put it in with the gun corse. I’m willing to bet that will change down the road but who knows. 

As far as ideas here’s a simple one, pass the law and let DEC decide what they want to do which is put it in bow season. 

I think you suffer from keyboard diarrhea, it’s a condition where a person just keeps responding to threads no matter how dumb and pointless it gets like this one. Guarantee you reply and keep posting. 

[reeltime]

37 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

And what is your idea ? 

And if crossbow is the same as vertical bow why did I have to take a archery course to get the license?  but 

All xbow guy only has to  sign the paper in the hunting manual that he read it.

Why is that if there the

same?

Bowhunter Education

This course is required for learning the necessary safety techniques and responsibilities when using a bow and arrow to pursue deer and bear. While this course is not required for hunting deer with a crossbow, or for small game or turkey, DEC encourages you to take this course to learn general bow and tree stand safety techniques.

 

 

 

something about crossbows not being a legal hunting implement and they had to have 3 years of usage data to get the proper classroom material gathered to implement it into the current archery safety course...or something along those lines was how it was explained.

I know 4 people that when and or if it ever gets full inclusion and the archery safety is required they will not be hunting with it in the archery season.  they simply bought one to take advantage of the free 2 weeks.

 

 

[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Or maybe anyone that was going to use a crossbow  during archery season has already taken the course...

They need to make it mandatory that is a,loophole that needs to be  fixed before they do something like full inclusion. 

 

Just saying if you want it to be treated the same as other archery equipment  with the same respect you got to take the same archery  course . 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Storm914

[reeltime]

3 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

They need to make it mandatory that is a,loophole that needs to be  fixed before they do something like full inclusion. 

when and if it ever gets classified as an archery weapon for use through the archery season they archery safety course will likely still be required just as it is today for a new archery tag purchaser.

 

[wolc123]

20 minutes ago, reeltime said:

when and if it ever gets classified as an archery weapon for use through the archery season they archery safety course will likely still be required just as it is today for a new archery tag purchaser.

 

Do you support full inclusion ?  It looks like that side picked up another vote since your last post.  Thank you if that was yours.  If we can get another page or two of this "popcorn diareha" it may open up to 3:1 in favor of full inclusion.  As far as the "most switching to crossbows", I am not sure about PA, and may have been wrong in my assumption.  I submit to your greater knowledge there as an ex-resident.  Someone posted the Ohio stats a few pages back on this thread when the poll was running a little closer to 2:1 in favor of full inclusion.  Thanks in advance for your reply which will bring the truth of the wide margin of support for full inclusion back up to the top for all to see.     

Edited April 13, 2018 by wolc123

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, reeltime said:

when and if it ever gets classified as an archery weapon for use through the archery season they archery safety course will likely still be required just as it is today for a new archery tag purchaser.

 

I was at the pa Cabela's  last week they had more crossbows in The store then compound bows that is all I know .

 

[Hunter007]

36 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

I am surprised a man of extreme intelligence such as you doesn’t know the history and reason why it is what it is. 

NYB was pushing to not allow crossbows like they always do and the law was getting passed much to their dismay so what they did was push to have it not considered a bow, weak lawmakers agreed so they could go home and say they accomplished something. This later brings us to what we have today where a new law needs to be passed to let DEC decide what to do with it. DEC has to consider it a muzzle loader by law not by choice or common sense. So if it can’t be considered a bow by law and they need to have it covered in the safety course that left them with no other choice but to put it in with the gun corse. I’m willing to bet that will change down the road but who knows. 

As far as ideas here’s a simple one, pass the law and let DEC decide what they want to do which is put it in bow season. 

I think you suffer from keyboard diarrhea, it’s a condition where a person just keeps responding to threads no matter how dumb and pointless it gets like this one. Guarantee you reply and keep posting. 

How do you know DEC thinks it belongs in all of archery ?

Did they make a press release saying that or are you speculating. 

[wolc123]

13 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I was at the pa Cabela's  last week they had more crossbows in The store then compound bows that is all I know .

 

That might be an indication that if most of the PA archery hunters have not made the change yet like Reeltime says, it will not be too long before crossbows are in the majority.    But then again, it could also mean that the crossbows are not selling well, but the compounds are flying off the shelves.   Irregardless, onward towards page 18 and 3:1 in favor of full inclusion.  

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

That might be an indication that if most of the PA archery hunters have not made the change yet like Reeltime says, it will not be too long before crossbows are in the majority.    But then again, it could also mean that the crossbows are not selling well, but the compounds are flying off the shelves.   Irregardless, onward towards page 18 and 3:1 in favor of full inclusion.  

They had a bigger selection of  xbows  is what I'm saying there most be a reason for it next time I go i am going ask what they sell more of over there. 

Btw the longbow and recurve section is much smaller then both in the store so usally stores  keep more of what sells most in stock . 

 

[nyslowhand]

Anyone that's been a member of this forum for any length of time, realizes these Xbow topics go the very same route EVERY time. First few pages, people state their opinions and the sides are drawn. Neither side has any facts to base their opinions on, it's all about personal preferences or choices. The sky will NOT fall and we don't know if Xbows will resolve any issues!!! All assumptions! As always, like the past several pages revealed, the nonsense ensues. If you're going to debate Xbow legislation, have some logical input that isn't strictly conjecture. PLEASE, I'm interested in hearing it from either side of this issue!!!

[Hunter007]

5 hours ago, nyslowhand said:

Anyone that's been a member of this forum for any length of time, realizes these Xbow topics go the very same route EVERY time. First few pages, people state their opinions and the sides are drawn. Neither side has any facts to base their opinions on, it's all about personal preferences or choices. The sky will NOT fall and we don't know if Xbows will resolve any issues!!! All assumptions! As always, like the past several pages revealed, the nonsense ensues. If you're going to debate Xbow legislation, have some logical input that isn't strictly conjecture. PLEASE, I'm interested in hearing it from either side of this issue!!!

I think it is great that they have a xbow season now .

The only issues I have is about them taking  the archery course and if you  put it in all of archery you pretty much will kill off anyone from using vertical bows overtime .

This already happened with recurves and longbows .

Just like  you will not see a bow or xbow on open day of gun season either .

Some one brought up Ohio they are  allowed to hunt over bait in that state if I'm not mistaken .

That means they are going to get more chances at closer shots  . And in that scenario a guy using a vertical bow may not feel the need to change as much as if he could not set up a blind or stand on top of a bait station  get really close to them  .  

The few guys that want that exstra challenge may  still use them but for the most part they will not be used much anymore . Most would rather have that little exstra range capability and switch over .

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Storm914

[G-Man]

Not true. Many still use bow in states that allow it all season. And because bait is legal doesn't mean people all bait. My friend took a 140 class 10 pr with very now in ohio last year. And he owns a crossbow. When going for a all day sit he uses bow.  A quick hunt after work crossbow. He also shoots competitive vert bow. 

Just taking a course will deter many from picking it up. And most as stated here are now hunters already.. 

I know I went thru a stage where I made it harder and harder on my self and used the most primitive weapon available for each season.. even using a flintlock pistol in muzzleloader..same will hold true if xbows are legal.. there are separate recordbooks for each and people will try..heck I'm dying to try spear....

[Doewhacker]

9 hours ago, Storm914 said:

How do you know DEC thinks it belongs in all of archery ?

Did they make a press release saying that or are you speculating. 

Where have you been the last few years? 

DEC’s position is clearly stated on pages 53-54 of their deer management plan where they say, “DEC supports the use of crossbows during any hunting season in which other bowhunting equipment is allowed and recommends that eligibility to hunt with a crossbow be the same as eligibility to hunt with a vertical bow.”

[Doewhacker]

28 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

exstra

It’s Extra. No S 

 

[Hunter007]

47 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Where have you been the last few years? 

DEC’s position is clearly stated on pages 53-54 of their deer management plan where they say, “DEC supports the use of crossbows during any hunting season in which other bowhunting equipment is allowed and recommends that eligibility to hunt with a crossbow be the same as eligibility to hunt with a vertical bow.”

Just asking not surprised since there job is to figure out ways to keep the deer population in check .

Obvously crossbows will  help do that .

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Not true. Many still use bow in states that allow it all season. And because bait is legal doesn't mean people all bait. My friend took a 140 class 10 pr with very now in ohio last year. And he owns a crossbow. When going for a all day sit he uses bow.  A quick hunt after work crossbow. He also shoots competitive vert bow. 

Just taking a course will deter many from picking it up. And most as stated here are now hunters already.. 

I know I went thru a stage where I made it harder and harder on my self and used the most primitive weapon available for each season.. even using a flintlock pistol in muzzleloader..same will hold true if xbows are legal.. there are separate recordbooks for each and people will try..heck I'm dying to try spear....

I would like to try atlatl 

I just think it is cool to mix it up a little having  separate seasons helps  do that .

Or you wind  up using the easier weapon 9 times out of 10 times 

You know what I mean it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight especially if you like to hunt state land. And have limited time.  

 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Storm914

[Curmudgeon]

7 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I would like to try atlatl 

I just think it is cool to mix it up a little having  separate seasons helps  do that .

Or you wined up using the easier weapon 9 times out of 10 times 

You know what I mean it's like bringing a knife to a gun fight especially if you like to hunt state land. And have limited time.  

 

Atlatls are really hard. Your arm and whole upper body are in motion. 

And, no one, I mean NO ONE, should be hunting when "wined up". Where's Belo When a grammarian is needed.

[Hunter007]

11 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Atlatls are really hard. Your arm and whole upper body are in motion. 

And, no one, I mean NO ONE, should be hunting when "wined up". Where's Belo When a grammarian is needed.

[Five Seasons]

[Lawdwaz]

39 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

 

And, no one, I mean NO ONE, should be hunting when "wined up". Where's Belo When a grammarian is needed.

AaaaaaaaMEN

I am so far from a wordsmith it isn't funny but I sure appreciate good grammer and spelling.

[Five Seasons]

44 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Atlatls are really hard. Your arm and whole upper body are in motion. 

And, no one, I mean NO ONE, should be hunting when "wined up". Where's Belo When a grammarian is needed.

ha. i couldn't read the last 2 pages. As usual, the thread has lost its fun.

[Skillet]

Full inclusion will happen. Not if, but when. 

Anyone supporting it needs to join the New York Crossbow Coalition, as a paid member. They work hard for us. 

We still have a decent chance of getting it done this year.

[Skillet]

http://www.nycrossbowcoalition.com/membership/

$20 / year. Come on guys.