Why NY deer hunters are the BEST deer hunters

[Iluvracks1359]

Last night after a softball game I had a chat with my buddy who has been hunting here in upstate NY for about 20 years, and has also had the opportunity to hunt out west in ohio, and Illinois I believe, a few times. He made an interesting comment to me last night, and I think he hit the nail on the head. Here is the gist of what he said: In NY a buck that makes it to 3 years old makes it to 3 years old because he is SMART, hes figured out a way to avoid hunters, thus, the older deer get here in NY, the harder they are to hunt. Bucks out west however, make it to 3 years old, most likely because they were passed up one or a few times, so they haven't had the fear instilled in them yet, and a 3 or 4 year old buck out west, basically behaves like a 1.5 year old buck in NY.  This is why NY hunters are the BEST hunters, because taking a big buck in NY, means you have studied the deer, and outsmarted a buck that was smarter than the rest.
 

thoughts?

[turkeyfeathers]

IMO most 3+ year old bucks shot in NY is being in the right place at the right time by dumb luck. And a lot of which are by people who hunt opening day , maybe a weekend or two. No recon involved Are there ones killed who’ve been on cams , passed on to allow to grow, been patterned? Absolutely. Those are the folks who deserve the big buck and earned it. But Joe Schmo kills a lot by just happening upon them with the stars lining up. 

[crappyice]

I’m somewhere in between. Where I hunt (mostly suburban and Columbia county) there are too many hunters with their own plans to “grow” big bucks intentionally. However, when a big buck happens on the property we hunt and makes it his home it takes some thought about when, where, how to approach, etc. to get the best crack at him. Passing on a nice 3 year old to let him grow to a better 4 year old is a pipe dream due to the hunter density in my areas.


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[Uncle Nicky]

25 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

 But Joe Schmo kills a lot by just happening upon them with the stars lining up. 

You sir have just described my entire deer hunting career.

[Iluvracks1359]

I think its the story of everyone's life, this year, however, I have 100 acres to hunt, all to myself, and while I know its not enough land to keep the bucks in during the rut, they should be primarily in there pre rut, and im hoping to start managing this land a little bit, let the lil guys go, and hopefully get some giants in there. Although, that's not stopping the guys on the adjacent properties from shooting the bucks I worked so hard to grow and manage. .. such is life in NY .

Edited June 26, 2018 by Iluvracks1359

[G-Man]

I dont know if you can grow big bucks. I have a few I've had on camera that are also on camera 4 miles away. The property size here is much smaller 

 A good sized plot  here is 30 to 50 acres. Iowa averages 400 plus. Same as Missouri and much of ohio. Not that three aren't smaller properties or larger in each state. But 2 guys on 400 acres is much different than 20 on 400.. deer in NY ste survivors and many are taken by dumb. Luck behind someone's barn or in that little patch of brush on the hill everyone walks by.. 

That being said I would put an average NY hunter against any of the TV hosts out west and I bet they hold more than their own.

[Buckmaster7600]

I don’t agree with your buddy, now I’m obviously not saying there aren’t good hunters in New York. I’ve hunted white tails in 13 states from the Deep South to the upper midwest and all along the east coast. Every place deer acted differently and they acted the same. I tend to agree with turkeyfeathers in that most mature bucks are killed by luck. NY makes it pretty easy to make your own luck with such a long season, especially with a gun.




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[LET EM GROW]

I dont know if I completely agree. a 3yr old NY buck most likely got to that age by dumb luck. The deer being in the right place at the right time. Each deer is slightly different. Unless you have the ideal whitetail habitat that holds and grows deer all on one property or 2. Its mostly luck, especially during the rut. I mean some skill is involved to a point. But to harvest a mature buck in early season, or consecutively every year or so.. most times some homework is needed.   You are really just picking what stand would work best for that time of year, during certain weather conditions etc.. and hoping for the best... kind of like luck.. 

After watching these midwest deer on tv, it makes you wonder whats it take.. But if you have a little bit of what a deer needs to survive on your property(cover, food, water).. Leave your land alone for some time during season, especially during gun season and only hunt when conditions are near perfect. Youll be surprised what you see when you finally get out and pursue unpressured deer.. Which is probably what the majority of the widwest deer on tv are... unpressured.. 

[Nomad]

I’ve hunted two Western states, one being Montana . I was disappointed to see many guys just drive back roads in their pick ups glassing fields, then walk a bit to shoot the buck they want. One spot my friend goes you can see 200- 300 deer a day this way . 

While elk hunting guys were parked , sitting in their trucks, rifle on dash just waiting for the elk to cross the road, off private land to the other side of the road which is public.

Even hunting the river bottoms was pretty easy .

[Doc]

More and more, success in deer hunting is a product of glomming onto the best land and locking it up tight with posted signs and fences and reserving the hunting rights to only one or only a few chosen hunters. It is also becoming an outcome of good farming practices (food plots) and many other things that have little to do with actual woods lore and species study and hunting prowess. Is NYS unique in all these non-hunting activities resulting in success that has little or nothing to do with actual hunting prowess?........Absolutely not. But all these things are what makes it difficult to determine who are actually the "BEST deer hunters". It is not all completely about rack scores or harvest quantities.

In my estimation, the best deer hunters are those that take on wild deer, with unmodified behavior, that hunt the deer the way they find them without artificial animal behavior and pattern modifications. To me this may be what puts some of the best deer hunters in NYS. Someone who takes on an area like the Adirondacks, far away from the farms and other such artificial deer attractants, is to me the guy who is most skilled at taking on deer in their own element, one-on-one, and is consistently successful in getting any deer. That, by the way is not me ..... lol. The patterns of deer in that kind of area are pretty damn random, and it takes some heavy levels of knowledge and skill to close the deal on those deer. NYS does offer a large area of that kind of hunting for those willing and able to take on the challenge. So maybe NYS does have some of the best deer hunters in the nation.........Maybe.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Doc

[moog5050]

location, location, location.  I have said it many times here, the right property ups the odds of a hunter killing those 3 plus year olds tremendously.  I am fortunate to have several small but good parcels to hunt which no doubt makes its easier to kill nice bucks.  I am sure there are many better NY hunters than I that just don't have similar property and kill 3 year olds on a less regular basis.  So perhaps that applies on a national basis with some states having far better options for deer dense property.  Not sure the deer are smarter, some areas just have more of them.   Being in the right spot is 1/2 of the equation with closing the deal being the second 1/2.  Without a fair opportunity on the first 1/2, that hunter wont have many wallhangers.

And, if you can get it done regularly in the ADK, I tip my hat to you.  That is not a deer dense area with far fewer opportunities.

[Iluvracks1359]

What about the deer that go nocturnal after making it through a couple of close calls? it definitely happens, and I would consider that a smart buck, and they are SOO hard to get. I had a MONSTER bedded down in some brush, I didn't even know he was there, I took a shot at a doe in a field, and missed, because back then I was a terrible free hand shooter, lol, but anyways, right as I shot I heard a couple cracks and up stood this monster buck who was bedded in the brush... and off he ran into the woods. I NEVER saw that deer again.

[NFA-ADK]

I would put NY and New England hunters in the top group of hunters, we hunt some of the highest hunter population and presser and some of the lowest deer density in the ADK.  One of my target bucks was killed at 5.5 years old and we have older and larger than him.  He scored 167.  We had chances at him but he always gave us the slip. Pic was shown to me opening day last year, talk about ruining my day! 

I have to also agree with Moog5050, some of the nicer bucks I have seen  have been taken on private property with very little hunting presser.  This is a good example where just having a good spot is all that is needed with little knowledge of the game.  Even though this guy is a good hunter, the spot is simply excellent with abundant food and cover. 

[moog5050]

20 minutes ago, Iluvracks1359 said:

What about the deer that go nocturnal after making it through a couple of close calls? it definitely happens, and I would consider that a smart buck, and they are SOO hard to get. I had a MONSTER bedded down in some brush, I didn't even know he was there, I took a shot at a doe in a field, and missed, because back then I was a terrible free hand shooter, lol, but anyways, right as I shot I heard a couple cracks and up stood this monster buck who was bedded in the brush... and off he ran into the woods. I NEVER saw that deer again.

If the question was posed to me, I am not saying some individual deer don't have better instincts than others, I am sure they do.  What I am saying is that when you have a larger population of deer the chances are greater that you will encounter one whose instincts failed them or they just got stupid chasing a doe.  I guess my comment was more along the lines of the idea that bucks in NY as a group aren't necessarily smarter than those out west.  They may just have better populations with fewer folks chasing them.

Edited June 26, 2018 by moog5050

[Buckmaster7600]

I think many of you guys put too much emphasis on skill for success in the big woods/Adks. I am far from a skilled hunter and I have had my share of success in the big woods. I think big woods hunting has way more to do with sealing the deal. Capitalizing is the most important part of any style hunting but in the big woods you may only get one chance a season or in many seasons for that matter. A buddy of mine is one of the worst “hunters” I know but he is a stone cold killer and shoots a big ADK buck nearly every year. He walks a lot and can shoot running deer like no one I have ever met. I’m not sure he knows the difference between a rub or a scrape or a buck or a doe track but the son of a gun kills nice bucks!

 

 

 

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[NFA-ADK]

Far from a skilled hunter?  Bet  you have more skills than you think, don't discredit your skill and knowledge!  Luck does play a part but their is a reason I am always seeing bucks in the ADK and the other hunters with me do not.  I am sure the deer you see is not all just chance encounters!  Covering ground is a good way to see deer but not everyone can shoot like your buddy, it sounds like his a great shot! 

Does skill take a part in it, sure and knowledge helps but location location location!  I tried to get some of my hunting partners to try other spots than Moose River but I always get the excuse "You shot deer here" why leave?  I say because other areas have more deer!  Location location location!   

[Buckmaster7600]

Far from a skilled hunter?  Bet  you have more skills than you think, don't discredit your skill and knowledge!  Luck does play a part but their is a reason I am always seeing bucks in the ADK and the other hunters with me do not.  I am sure the deer you see is not all just chance encounters!  Covering ground is a good way to see deer but not everyone can shoot like your buddy, it sounds like his a great shot! 
Does skill take a part in it, sure and knowledge helps but location location location!  I tried to get some of my hunting partners to try other spots than Moose River but I always get the excuse "You shot deer here" why leave?  I say because other areas have more deer!  Location location location!   

Location is a factor. Honestly I don’t know if I would call it a skill but I think successful big woods hunters have something we’re born with that separates us from the rest. I don’t know if it’s drive or an extra sense or what but having spent my 20+ years being in camps and hunting in the Adirondacks and being the son of one of the best that ever played the game I think some have and most don’t. I don’t think it’s something that is learned or taught.


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[NFA-ADK]

I have to agree that your drive to go that extra mile makes a huge difference.  Something most good hunters seem to have and seems to be missing from the not so good hunters, usually. 

[moog5050]

8 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

I have to agree that your drive to go that extra mile makes a huge difference.  Something most good hunters seem to have and seems to be missing from the not so good hunters, usually. 

I know what you mean.  Sometimes I have to walk 200 or even 300yds from my truck before sitting for 4 or more hours.  But I don't let that stop me.

[turkeyfeathers]

I have to agree that your drive to go that extra mile makes a huge difference.  Something most good hunters seem to have and seems to be missing from the not so good hunters, usually. 

I have the drive and never in my career killed a wall hanger pfft


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[moog5050]

9 minutes ago, turkeyfeathers said:

I have the drive and never in my career killed a wall hanger pfft


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You scare them away with that scowl.  Try looking a bit more approachable.  Shoot em with a smile on your face!

[dbHunterNY]

people put too much emphasis on an older buck having this wisdom or brain power to out smart a hunter.  it's a deer and you're a human. most of the time a buck has a certain tendency or pattern in the day to day behavior that coincidentally makes them harder to kill.  couple that with the fact that deer will do what they need to survive without cutting corners. hunters that are people can get sloppy and do things while hunting they know they shouldn't.

location and effort to keep that location is also a big deal. the best hunter in the world can't make big bucks be in an area they typically aren't for whatever the reason.  the best locations are either known with someone else just waiting to take over the spot or a great deal of effort is put in to make the location what it is and keep it that way.

[Uncle Nicky]

I'd be scowling too if I was sitting in the woods freezing my a** off...I got cold just looking at that picture!

[turkeyfeathers]

39 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

I'd be scowling too if I was sitting in the woods freezing my a** off...I got cold just looking at that picture!

On the flip side of that coin I’m currently beaching it with wife , daughter and her friend.  I’m now scowling as I’m a nice shade of burnt and a seagull just crapped on me.   But I truly don’t get cold deer hunting. 

[NFA-ADK]

3 hours ago, turkeyfeathers said:

I have the drive and never in my career killed a wall hanger pfft


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 How many days did you hunt last year?  Do you hunt from dark to dark?  I hunted over 30 days last year and many where from dark to dark.  Logged multiple bucks and doe probably saw about 5-15 per day not including the ADK trip.   Some days I did not see any or only a few and this was not a banner year at all for me.  Usually I get about 40 plus days a year in for bow when I am in the zone. 

My buddy has very good drive and he is a good hunter but the stars never seem to align for him.  As a single guy I have much more time to study and educate myself on deer and over the years it has made a difference in my hunting, most people I know simply do not have the time to learn things that are needed to become a good  hunter.  Some people simple do not get it or understand how deer work and that is a big issue with connecting on a big deer.  Then you can go back to the other point, location.  If you hunt hard the same patch of woods every year and never see ANY good deer you need to change spots even if its your private land.  Some land simply has to many hunters and will never hold big deer, they all get shot buy 2 years old and a 3 is just unheard of.