Sad Time for New York Hunters

[Five Seasons]

I will still continue to blame land access. The rural road I grew up on in the 80's was once a free roaming area with fields and farms. Now the remaining farms are posted tight and the fields have homes in them. The world continues to urbanize, so fewer and fewer kids start out with a bb gun at 8 shooting barn swallows and transitioning to small and big game as they grow. If your first exposure to hunting is in your late teens, you might be too late. For sure many people start later in life, but my guess is most hunters start as kids. And as a busy adult, putting in the time and money to find and pay for a lease could be all the demotivation one needs to pursue another pastime. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

20 minutes ago, Belo said:

I will still continue to blame land access. The rural road I grew up on in the 80's was once a free roaming area with fields and farms. Now the remaining farms are posted tight and the fields have homes in them. The world continues to urbanize, so fewer and fewer kids start out with a bb gun at 8 shooting barn swallows and transitioning to small and big game as they grow. If your first exposure to hunting is in your late teens, you might be too late. For sure many people start later in life, but my guess is most hunters start as kids. And as a busy adult, putting in the time and money to find and pay for a lease could be all the demotivation one needs to pursue another pastime. 

What some of the research is showing in the last few years is that the "youth hunt" initiatives are only marginally successful in creating hunters. Let's face it. if Johnny or Susie wants to hunt and ate taken out at 14 on a youth hunt they may very well enjoy themselves. But if their parents are not into the sport what is the likelihood that they get out again? There is a higher retention rate if the adults are targeted. That is one reason that drove the Field to Fork program in the QDMA thread I posted. You nailed it though. If an adult hunts the likelihood that their kids will, is higher than a youth who's parents don't hunt.  

[chas0218]

They aren't looking hard enough or made poor decisions in acquiring all that college debt. If a person wants to learn a skilled trade there are literally boat loads of opportunities just not many in NY thanks to the high tax environment. . Our apprenticeships for high school grads start out at $19 and hour in MD. Raise every 6 months and we pay the schooling and books. At end of 4 years (22 years old) they are at 38 an hour. another year (23 years old) to make certified craft and that up to $42. Foreman is $46  This program isn't unique.

Down the street from my house we have a free electrician trade school where you can become a certified union electrician. Same as your apprenticeships they start out around $20/hour and once certified union electrician they can make anywhere from $45-$100/hour the latter if you don't mind traveling for a week out of state.

Either way poor life choices have that effect on peoples income later in life.

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[chas0218]

Where we live (40 minutes north of Manhattan), there are tons of young people.  I was a PTA chair and I know many of the kids and parents in our town (most of them).  I know exactly one young person who is in any way interested in hunting - my son (14 yo).  The rest of them... video games, etc.  It's depressing.  I grew up in NC, where every kid had a .22 by age of 8 (at the latest), and we carried them around in the woods and "shot stuff" after school every day.  Hunting and firearms were a basic part of life.  Here in lower NYS... well, let's put it this way, I had to go to the school and to the local police department to explain myself when my son posted an image of a rifle on his Instagram account.  It's bad, folks.  Very bad.  (Upstate not so much, thankfully...)

Sad part is upstate isnt much better. We have had "tips" in our school district from concerned parents because of pictures of student(s) at the range with parents shooting guns.

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[chas0218]

Plumber sounds good if it's only new builds ,that first emergency call to someone else backed up shitter would gross me out.

$200 and an hour later your done. Sorry I'll take $200 an hour over any job, that's why they make rubber gloves. No trying to be a jerk but you'll put your hands in guts but dont want to touch poo? Haha

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[Jeremy K]

14 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

$200 and an hour later your done. Sorry I'll take $200 an hour over any job, that's why they make rubber gloves. No trying to be a jerk but you'll put your hands in guts but dont want to touch poo? Haha

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I have a 2.5 year old son ,I lost count of how many times I've had crap on my hands in that time. Other people's crap is nasty !

[Hunter007]

9 hours ago, Belo said:

I will still continue to blame land access. The rural road I grew up on in the 80's was once a free roaming area with fields and farms. Now the remaining farms are posted tight and the fields have homes in them. The world continues to urbanize, so fewer and fewer kids start out with a bb gun at 8 shooting barn swallows and transitioning to small and big game as they grow. If your first exposure to hunting is in your late teens, you might be too late. For sure many people start later in life, but my guess is most hunters start as kids. And as a busy adult, putting in the time and money to find and pay for a lease could be all the demotivation one needs to pursue another pastime. 

I think it's a combination of things like realistic video games.  Less land access just the flood of different hobbies, internet digital world .

The fact that most people really don't need to hunt for there food anymore or dont want to unless forced .

And of course pop culture the media does not  look at  hunting as something good or fun for the most part .

[sits in trees]

On 9/29/2018 at 9:05 AM, Doc said:

I get so sick of the lefties trying to poo-poo an obvious rip snorting economy (by any measurement you want to mention) that is staring them right in the face. That is an incredibly cartoon-ish biased opinion, or just plain ignorance. A lie does not become a truth if you say it often enough. 

It was not uncommon back when I came out into the market to have to wait at least a couple of years for a decent car. Today most high school kids are tooling around in brand new cars. I take a look at some of these "mansions" that the 20-something employees are living in and laughing as these people whine about how tough things are today. Second homes are not all that uncommon anymore. Take a look at some of these motor homes that people are cruising around in. They cost more than my house did. And the stock market that has become the retirement income for most retirees is going nuts and restoring all the resources lost during the Bush/Obama years.

Most of the whining comes from those that are just plain lazy and are swallowing up this socialist crap that believes that asking people to work for what they have is a stingy and heartless way to do things. So go pedal your left wing fantasies somewhere else. Nobody is buying into it here. The world is not one big free lunch paid for by the dummies that actually work and produce things.

Sounds to me like another ornery old coot who hasn't been part if the real world in decades. 20 something's living in mansions and tooling around in brand new cars, Really? Take another belt of bourbon and go to sleep so you can dream up some new fantasies old man.

[Rattler]

2 hours ago, sits in trees said:

Sounds to me like another ornery old coot who hasn't been part if the real world in decades. 20 something's living in mansions and tooling around in brand new cars, Really? Take another belt of bourbon and go to sleep so you can dream up some new fantasies old man.

That was uncalled for and lacks any element of civil debate.  When you have no facts to counter the opinion in a civil manner, ad hominem attacks simply prove you have already conceded defeat and lost the debate.

He was alluding to kids living at their parents home with cars paid for by the daddies, complaining how tough life is.

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Rattler

[Jdubs]

2 hours ago, sits in trees said:

Sounds to me like another ornery old coot who hasn't been part if the real world in decades. 20 something's living in mansions and tooling around in brand new cars, Really? Take another belt of bourbon and go to sleep so you can dream up some new fantasies old man.

I think Doc was pretty much spot on.  Maybe with age comes wisdom?  Looks like you could use some.

[sits in trees]

6 hours ago, Jdubs said:

I think Doc was pretty much spot on.  Maybe with age comes wisdom?  Looks like you could use some.

I've been on this site for years. Not much in the in the last few yrs. But this folksy hoxie guy who calls himself Doc has anything but wisdom. He's a self appointed crusader against the use of crossbows in NYS and the way I see it he's an anti hunter who thinks everyone has to hunt just the way he does or stay out of the woods. He'll never miss the chance to spew his opinions with an endless line of 11 paragraph drivel that no one could ever possibly spend the time reading. Him and others like him are the reason that forums like this are flopping like flounder. Pretty sure this forum has about a dozen or less members now. It used to be a pretty good place with a ton of participation, but not anymore.

[sits in trees]

As a side note, maybe you should look at yourselves for a single moment and you just might find why young folks aren't getting into this sport and have zero interest in carrying on the tradition

[landtracdeerhunter]

10 hours ago, sits in trees said:

Sounds to me like another ornery old coot who hasn't been part if the real world in decades. 20 something's living in mansions and tooling around in brand new cars, Really? Take another belt of bourbon and go to sleep so you can dream up some new fantasies old man.

Sits, name calling doesn't solve the problem alerted on this thread.  Let's try to be civilized.

[Doc]

20 hours ago, Belo said:

I will still continue to blame land access. The rural road I grew up on in the 80's was once a free roaming area with fields and farms. Now the remaining farms are posted tight and the fields have homes in them. The world continues to urbanize, so fewer and fewer kids start out with a bb gun at 8 shooting barn swallows and transitioning to small and big game as they grow. If your first exposure to hunting is in your late teens, you might be too late. For sure many people start later in life, but my guess is most hunters start as kids. And as a busy adult, putting in the time and money to find and pay for a lease could be all the demotivation one needs to pursue another pastime. 

Pretty much on target here. And if you think land access has changed since the 80's, imagine the perspective from someone looking at it up close and personal since the 50's. I remember when a posted sign was a true oddity. Farmers didn't really have time or money or even a desire to go traipsing through the woods hanging up posted signs. But if you want to go even deeper into this problem, the change is due to modern vehicles and improved roads that promoted a mass migration from the cities and suburbs to the more rural areas. Everyone wanted their little piece of paradise in "the country". Large blocks of huntable forested land  became chopped up into little 5-20 acre lots. And that residential migration to the U.S. hunting lands still continues to take place at a break-neck pace.

[Five Seasons]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Pretty much on target here. And if you think land access has changed since the 80's, imagine the perspective from someone looking at it up close and personal since the 50's. I remember when a posted sign was a true oddity. Farmers didn't really have time or money or even a desire to go traipsing through the woods hanging up posted signs. But if you want to go even deeper into this problem, the change is due to modern vehicles and improved roads that promoted a mass migration from the cities and suburbs to the more rural areas. Everyone wanted their little piece of paradise in "the country". Large blocks of huntable forested land  became chopped up into little 5-20 acre lots. And that residential migration to the U.S. hunting lands still continues to take place at a break-neck pace.

Just locally here in wayne and monroe their is constantly more land being developed. I get it, people want new. Contractors need the work and the old homesteads are dying because the kids inherit property that they dont need and can sell for money. But our population keeps shrinking and I keep wondering why we need to continue to build. I think that's why I like those home rehab shows so much. Take what is already fine and just fix it up till it's like new. A lot of those Ryan homes have a reputation for a reason too.

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, sits in trees said:

I've been on this site for years. Not much in the in the last few yrs. But this folksy hoxie guy who calls himself Doc has anything but wisdom. He's a self appointed crusader against the use of crossbows in NYS and the way I see it he's an anti hunter who thinks everyone has to hunt just the way he does or stay out of the woods. He'll never miss the chance to spew his opinions with an endless line of 11 paragraph drivel that no one could ever possibly spend the time reading. Him and others like him are the reason that forums like this are flopping like flounder. Pretty sure this forum has about a dozen or less members now. It used to be a pretty good place with a ton of participation, but not anymore.

I actually think you both make good points, but they're lost with the poo flinging. 

Yes college is more expensive and kids have more debt then they did before the 80's. But yes the economy is doing really well and opportunities are everywhere. If you choose to get a degree in communications from a private 4 year school, then that's on you and your parents. Personally I got a bs in engineering from a state school, still came out with a bunch of loans but turned it into a nice career. I think you're both pointing to extremes. Kids don't "need" college. It's not for everyone and not every degree that's offered is worth the cost. The nation continues to suffer from a lack of doctors, nurses and skilled trades... yet more kids keep enrolling in law school. A market that is flooded. 

shrugs

[airedale]

 

13 hours ago, sits in trees said:

Sounds to me like another ornery old coot who hasn't been part if the real world in decades. 20 something's living in mansions and tooling around in brand new cars, Really? Take another belt of bourbon and go to sleep so you can dream up some new fantasies old man.

Sounds to me that you are a first class jerk!

As a kid I picked beans in the summer for $7 a day along side black migrant workers to buy my school clothes and my hunting equipment, so your mean spirited posts and notion that young people do not get into hunting  because they are so broke is laughable to me. Hell if we were all so bad off as you are making it sound everyone would need to be hunting just to keep food on the table.

Anyone that is serious about getting into hunting can buy equipment that fits them even on a tight budget, you do not need a Weatherby and designer Under Armor hunting clothes to participate in this sport. My family did not have a lot of disposable income when I was growing up but my Dad scraped up enough to get me a used single shot Savage 22 and a used 16 Ga three shot Mossberg bolt action shotgun. Made do with what I had and many of my fondest hunting memories were at the time I used those firearms. I bought my first new gun the first summer I was out of school working my first job making weekly payments of what ever money I had left over. The young folks today have more money than I ever dreamed of having at the same stage so it ends up being a priority on how that money is spent.

As other have said the lack of access to good hunting lands within reasonable distances of where they live is the biggest factor for the decline in sport hunting.

Now as an old coot myself I sure you will tell me I am full of crap too so I think I will sit back and slam another tumbler of prune juice to take care of that!

Al

Edited October 3, 2018 by airedale

[nyantler]

5 hours ago, sits in trees said:

As a side note, maybe you should look at yourselves for a single moment and you just might find why young folks aren't getting into this sport and have zero interest in carrying on the tradition

Looking at oneself sometimes is a good thing... sometimes they learn that they are the type of person that likes to blame others for their short comings and difficulties in life. All the issues they have are caused by someone else or society. I have found that when people tend to blame others for their plight it's usually because they fail to accept the reoccurring common denominator in all of their issues... themselves!

[Hunter007]

6 hours ago, sits in trees said:

As a side note, maybe you should look at yourselves for a single moment and you just might find why young folks aren't getting into this sport and have zero interest in carrying on the tradition

What are you saying the kids look at hunting as a old man's sport ?

Or something else ?

Be specific  we are not all mind readers here, thanks .