Frost Heave

[First-light]

Second time this has happened in the bath room. Seems that the main drain to septic system is subject to frost heave. Do I have to drain water away from this area? It is wet back of the cabin. 

Be nice if there was an expandable boot I could install on the line. Pushed the toilet over, bolts were not on the screws to hold it in place. Any thoughts would be appreciated. 

[BowmanMike]

Seems very unlikely to me that your septic line being pushed up would lift your toilet. Does the main line exit the house very close to that toilet?

I would think the main line would flex enough to not move your toilet,even if it does heave up a tad.

Also,there is a rubber sleeve you can install on the line,two hoseclamps on either end.

Edited March 15, 2019 by BowmanMike

[Lawdwaz]

Damn, that sucks..........

Recently we had a problem with a large (very expensive) casement window that wouldn't latch.  Today we went to check it out and after about 30 minutes of monkeying with it the homeowner states that they've had all kinds of trouble with a yard gate and back door that is right next to the window in question.  Seems as though a major frost upheaval has upset the apple cart.  Major foundation cracks around the room are seen to by investigative peons (me and my boss) confirming the fact that the homeowners is f*c%ed.

Good luck with your turlet.........

[First-light]

6 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

Seems very unlikely to me that your septic line being pushed up would lift your toilet. Does the main line exit the house very close to that toilet?

I would think the main line would flex enough to not move your toilet,even if it does heave up a tad.

Also,there is a rubber sleeve you can install on the line,two hoseclamps on either end.

It exits about 4 feet from where the toilet drain comes down. I might look into that rubber sleeve. Thanks

[First-light]

What if the back side of the cabin was sinking? Jump ship? lol Half the cabin is on piers the other foundation. I don't know just throwing it out there.

[land 1]

friend had the same issue turns out wasnt the septic line but frozen ground moving actual camp it was on piers

[steve863]

That's exactly how I found my toilet once when my 280 lbs sister-in-law spent a weekend at our place.  LOL  I kid you not.  Glad she didn't fall thru the floor below.

Anyway, just trying to cheer you up, Burt.  Hope you find out what the problem is and get it resolved.

[Lawdwaz]

Maybe someone busted in and stepped on the can, then dumped it...........??

[G-Man]

I doubt the line moved that much I believe your foundation moved not the septic line

[First-light]

5 hours ago, G-Man said:

I doubt the line moved that much I believe your foundation moved not the septic line

OK I'll check but in the corner is the hot water heater and pressure tank for well. That would of moved also. I'll check those things out. 

I guess the skirting should be compressed also another thing to look at. Thanks

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, First-light said:

OK I'll check but in the corner is the hot water heater and pressure tank for well. That would of moved also. I'll check those things out. 

I guess the skirting should be compressed also another thing to look at. Thanks

The reason I say foundation moved and not pipe is the bolts that hold toilet on are attached to flange that is attached to pipe ,for the nuts to strip off the floor had to raise and pipe stay so it was forced off .. it pipe rose the flange would raise out of floor with toilet on it. The heater and pressure tank aren't attached to floor so they wouldn't be toppled 

[moog5050]

4 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The reason I say foundation moved and not pipe is the bolts that hold toilet on are attached to flange that is attached to pipe ,for the nuts to strip off the floor had to raise and pipe stay so it was forced off .. it pipe rose the flange would raise out of floor with toilet on it. The heater and pressure tank aren't attached to floor so they wouldn't be toppled 

I think Burt mentioned that the nuts were not in place

[Five Seasons]

i think you just need to eat less venison chili if you wake up to find your toilet on its side.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It absolutely could be frost heave on the line. if that goes through the floor and underground, but no below frost line and then a horizontal run. Is it dirt below that floor?  Ours did the same thing at camp and it may not be a standing water issue. some soils are very susceptible to frost heavy. Have you ever walked around your camp are and seem tall frost and soil formations grow from the surface of the ground just over night on a very very cold night?

Ours was bolted down and the T bolts were pulled right through the PVC flange. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

12 hours ago, land 1 said:

friend had the same issue turns out wasnt the septic line but frozen ground moving actual camp it was on piers

wouldn't that have lifted the camp up and pull the pipe apart rather than pushing the toilet up?

[tuckersdaddy]

Need to institute a no smoking rule in the bathroom... let us know what you find..

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[G-Man]

4 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

wouldn't that have lifted the camp up and pull the pipe apart rather than pushing the toilet up?

Nuts weren't on toilet so if floor lifted and.pipe stayed it would lift toilet off bolts.. if pipe lifted where flange attaches to floor would be ripped out or flange snapped..looks like floor lifted toilet off bolts and when it settled it didnt fall back on them and tipped

[TreeGuy]

Discharge line should be surrounded in crushed stone, if it isn't I would do that.

Which side is of the cabin is this on? the foundation side or the pier side ? If it's on the pier side, are they sunken piers or sitting on grade ? If they are on grade, I'd also look into having them dug below frost line and putting Crete down there.

Another possibility is that septic holding tank has shifted ( also should be in stone ). The "wet" you see could be overflow from tank. If something's moving enough to knock over you crapper there could be other issues as well.

As it sits, beware of the methane gas !!!

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[First-light]

Thank you all for your input. What I saw today was two lines that connect to the main drain, toilet. They are pitched now the wrong way. Thus believing the cabin did not sink but the main drain line heaved. There is a lot of water behind cabin and also where the main line goes into the ground. I believe I have to put in some drainage to alleviate the problem.  Please keep suggestions coming. Thank you all.

[TreeGuy]

Thank you all for your input. What I saw today was two lines that connect to the main drain, toilet. They are pitched now the wrong way. Thus believing the cabin did not sink but the main drain line heaved. There is a lot of water behind cabin and also where the main line goes into the ground. I believe I have to put in some drainage to alleviate the problem.  Please keep suggestions coming. Thank you all.

Stone those lines !!

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[First-light]

9 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Stone those lines !!

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Dig the lines up and put gravel around them? How much deeper than the line should I go?

 

[TreeGuy]

Dig the lines up and put gravel around them? How much deeper than the line should I go?
 

They should have been stoned originally. If there's none, I'd say anywhere between 6-8" all around pipe. Crushed #1

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[Daveboone]

I have similar problems at my camp, which is up on posts. I had to redo all the posts properly which put an end to the camp moving, but still have problems with the plumbing. 

My toilet drain exits the floor, then I have a gas trap before it goes to the ground unfortunately it enters the ground at a long shallow angle, which lifts the line up and down. It only goes to a 55 gallon drum, which needs to be improved. If you can take the horizontal septic line below frost line from directly below the toilet, then surround the vertical pipe with gravel as mentioned, it largely eliminates any heave on the pipe. use a couple pieces of the flexible rubber elbows at the trap, and that will also minimize the heave.  

[Lawdwaz]

What a pain in the ass this is......

[First-light]

Question to you guys. I included a picture here. So I get the frost heave in the back of the cabin by the bathroom. I would imagine I put the french drain about 18" down 2' off the back of the cabin? This sound correct? Also I dig trench, lay fabric soil separator, put in some stone then pipe covered in the soil separator sock back fill with more stone. Tuck both ends of fabric and back fill some more. Does the top of the trench stay gravel or do you put a layer of topsoil back in?