.243 loads

[philoshop]

Does anyone have any "pet" loads for woodchucks or deer for the .243?

The gun I currently have is a Savage w/ accutrigger after selling a very nice Winchester Model 70 many decades ago. Dumb and dumb. I bought all 6 boxes of Federal ammo that were on the shelf at BassPro for 10.99 per box, mostly for the brass. Normally I would spend a couple of hundred dollars on powders, primers, and bullets to work up loads; but I'm a bit financially challenged these days. Hoping that someone might have a favorite powder at least.

[rotorooter23]

I use H4350, temp stable and gets them cooking! But I also have a 26" shilen varmint barrel with a 1:8 twist. Shooting 105Gr Bergers at 3050fps. I monkey around with some benchrest shooting and long range stuff with this load. I have had good luck with IMR 4350 in my sporter  Savage model 11  with 87gr Vmax. Produced somewhere little over half inch group at 100 yards.

[philoshop]

Thanks.

I lost all of my old load books during several moves and just don't remember what I used to use 40 years ago. I do remember 4350, but I wasn't sure if it was H or IMR. I'll check the manuals.

Thanks again.

[Pygmy]

Lawdwaz has a wicked deer load for his .243  involving an 80 or 85 grain monolithic...Barnes, if I am not mistaken...I'm sure he'll share the recipe..

[airedale]

The 243 Winchester was the very first cartridge I handloaded for, I had a Remington 660 carbine with a 20 inch barrel and later I purchased a Ruger Number 1 light sporter with a 22 inch barrel. My brother had a Browning BLR in 243 that I handloaded for also. I am talking 50 years ago and a lot of water has passed under the bridge for loading data and components since then.

Load data today is much more conservative than what was published in the early loading manuals back in those days. Still I never had a problem with that early loading data as I always followed the rule of starting a few grains under and working my way up watching for any signs of excessive pressure.

My Woodchuck load was the 75 gr Sierra HP over 43 grs of IMR 4895 from an old Lyman manual that was supposed to be going along at 3500 FPS. The current Lyman manual lists 39 grs as their top load with IMR 4895 at around 3400 fps. Bottom line the old original load was very accurate in my rifle and showed no signs of being too hot and I killed a lot of Chucks and Crows.

In Ken Water's "Pet Loads" bible he liked 47 grs of IMR 4831, it is extremely accurate with the 75 gr HP.

As for Deer I shot a few with the 243, a couple with the Speer 105 gr semi spitzer and a couple with the 95 gr Nosler Partition, my Brother has killed at least 20 Deer with the Nosler 95 gr Partition and loves that load.

45 grs of IMR 4831 was the powder I used for the Nosler 95 gr.

An online search will probably produce many good loads with the newer powders that are available today.

Al

 

Edited May 29, 2019 by airedale

[Will_C]

Woodchucks-70 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip with 47 grains IMR-4350. Honest .5" 3 shot groups in my Browning A-bolt.

Deer- 85 grain Nosler Partiton over 42.5 grains IMR-4350. Slightly larger groups (.7 inch) and I have only recovered one out of 8-10 deer shot with that combo. 

 

[stubborn1VT]

2 minutes ago, Will_C said:

I have only recovered one out of 8-10 deer shot with that combo. 

Is this what you meant to say? One out of 8-10 is not good at all.

[airedale]

11 minutes ago, Will_C said:

Deer- 85 grain Nosler Partiton over 42.5 grains IMR-4350. Slightly larger groups (.7 inch) and I have only recovered one out of 8-10 deer shot with that combo. 

I assume he is referring to bullet recovery, I have had the same results when using Partitions in various calibers, I have never recovered one.

Al

[Pygmy]

2 minutes ago, airedale said:

I assume he is referring to bullet recovery, I have had the same results when using Partitions in various calibers, I have never recovered one.

Al

The only NP I ever recovered hit a big Alaska bull moose in the brisket, angled toward the right and I found it under the skin behind the right shoulder..I  figure it went through over two feet of moose...It was  a  7MM NP 160 grain  fired from a .280 Rem..It still weighs 105 grains....

[stubborn1VT]

13 minutes ago, airedale said:

I assume he is referring to bullet recovery, I have had the same results when using Partitions in various calibers, I have never recovered one.

Al

Thanks Al.  I can be a little dense.  Recovering deer is important to me, bullets not as much.

[stubborn1VT]

Now that I I think of it, I once recovered a 140 grain NP that I put through a whitetail's heart.  There was an inch of new snow.  The buck had gone over a steep bank, so I got down to "track" him.  When I got to the spot I shot him, I saw a perfect groove in the snow.  Once I had the deer gutted, I went back and dug the bullet out of the soft dirt under some white pines.  It was a perfect specimen.  

[wolc123]

As long as you are not that into the meat, the .243 might be a great caliber for deer.  Because I am a pure meat hunter, it is a definite no-go for me.   My neighbor gave me a 2.5 year old buck, that might have field dressed around 160 pounds, last fall.  He had hit that buck twice with his .243.  The first shot struck broadside on the ham and the second "finisher", just forward of the shoulder.  I recovered both bullets while processing.   After trimming away all of the bloodied meat, I ended up with less than 50 pounds of venison from that buck.  That was a bit less than I got from a 6 month button-buck that I killed with my crossbow last fall.   

The last deer that I processed last fall was a 3.5 year old buck that I had hit with (3) 12 ga, 2-3/4 in sabots: (2) Hornady SST's - one passed thru, just under and the other passed thru the spine, and a Federal solid lead sabot passed thru the neck.   Less than a pound of bloodied meat had to be trimmed away from those three wound channels.   The difference between those large diameter, slow sabots, and those hyper-velocity .243's was night and day when it comes to meat damage.    

If you must shoot deer with a .243, then you would be well advised to limit your shots to broadside, near the center of the rib-cage.   Stay as far away from the meaty, boney areas as possible.  It is a round much better suited for  woodchucks, coyotes, and other non-edible species.             

Edited May 30, 2019 by wolc123

[airedale]

15 hours ago, wolc123 said:

If you must shoot deer with a .243, then you would be well advised to limit your shots to broadside, near the center of the rib-cage.   Stay as far away from the meaty, boney areas as possible.

The heart lung shot is the best if one is looking to limit edible meat damage, the above quote applies to all high powered rifle cartridges with a similarly constructed bullet as the 243's. Your neighbor's buck would have sustained some pretty bad damage no matter what conventional Deer rifle cartridge he used shooting it through the shoulders and the rear quarters and especially so if using a frangible constructed bullet. 

Al

Edited May 30, 2019 by airedale

[grampy]

15 hours ago, wolc123 said:

   

If you must shoot deer with a .243, then you would be well advised to limit your shots to broadside, near the center of the rib-cage.   Stay as far away from the meaty, boney areas as possible.  It is a round much better suited for  woodchucks, coyotes, and other non-edible species.             

I'm assuming the 'Texas Heart Shot' you made with a rifle a couple years ago, would be acceptable too? No mess at all right? What was that made with, an 06??  Seems like a smaller hole would be preferable for that shot???

 

[Will_C]

Sorry about the confusion. Yes, I only have recovered one bullet, all the rest were pass throughs. Actually have never lost  a deer hit with that rifle and load. Actually had pass throughs hitting both shoulders.

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, grampy said:

atI'm assuming the 'Texas Heart Shot' you made with a rifle a couple years ago, would be acceptable too? No mess at all right? What was that made with, an 06??  Seems like a smaller hole would be preferable for that shot???

 

The problem with that shot, is that if the bullet does not strike almost the exact right spot (centered on the butt-hole within 1/32"), and if the deer is not properly aligned, a massive amount of meat damage, and/or a messy gutting job will result, regardless of the caliber.   I did pull it off on my only attempt with my 06.  In 36 years of deer hunting, that was the only time that everything fell into place and I don't expect to see that again.   I have not heard of anyone else making that shot without at least a messy gutting job.   Since it was late in hunting season, and my venison supply was not yet secure, I was willing to risk that "mess".   There is always plenty of blood left in the cavity to rinse, and any meat is more than provided by an un-punched tag.  I was not willing to risk a wounded and non-recovered deer however.  Never have I been more certain of a quick kill than I was when that buck stood still,  with his butt-hole 50 yards away from the muzzle of my scoped, well-rested 30/06.  Putting the bullet into a 1/4" diameter opening under those conditions was no big deal with a rifle that has always held a 1" or smaller group at 100 yards with those Federal "classic" 150 gr loads.   

 As explained, the bullet entered the pre-existing butt-hole, so there was no need for it to cut thru the hide to get into the deer.   It made it up into the chest without leaving a mess of any kind (the butt-out II worked perfectly, doubling as a bore-gauge to verify the shot location)  and cut a shallow groove across the heart (Texas-style), but did not bloody that up at all.   On its way out, it cost me a small neck roast.   My guess is that if it were a faster, lighter .243 bullet, it might have bloodied up the heart and it surely would have taken out a lot more of the neck meat.     

8 hours ago, airedale said:

The heart lung shot is the best if one is looking to limit edible meat damage, the above quote applies to all high powered rifle cartridges with a similarly constructed bullet as the 243's. Your neighbor's buck would have sustained some pretty bad damage no matter what conventional Deer rifle cartridge he used shooting it through the shoulders and the rear quarters and especially so if using a frangible constructed bullet. 

Al

As I explained in my first post, the very next deer that I processed that year was struck thru bone (the spine) with a heavier, slower bullet and the meat damage was many times less.  Although it was a shotgun, the 12 gauge Hornady SST uses a rifle bullet (looks to be .45 - .50 cal).  The point that I am making is that there is no caliber that I have seen used on deer, that causes more meat damage, on any shot, than the .243.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.   Lots of folks don't care all that much about the meat.  There are even one or two on this forum who believe that it is ALL about the antlers.    If that is your primary worry, then the .243 is a great deer round, quite possibly the very best.  Light recoil, and massive shock damage make for an accurate shot and a quick kill.    

As for me, a pure meat hunter, it is a caliber that I would never consider using for deer, based on that one bad butchering experience last fall.   I always try for the heart/lung shot, but since I am far from perfect, it is not always what I end up with.   I have only killed (3) deer with a high powered rifle (all 30/06), One mule deer and two whitetails.  The other whitetail was also hit with a Federal classic 150 gr.  That bullet hit the buck, that was quartering away at 300 yards, centered on the second last rib, dropping it in its tracks.  The bullet never exited and ended up in the inner, upper front leg on the opposite side.   The lungs were turned to jelly and the meat damage in the upper leg where the bullet ended up was minimal compared to the .243 - killed buck last fall.             

Edited May 31, 2019 by wolc123

[Lawdwaz]

24 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

The problem with that shot, is that if the bullet does not strike almost the exact right spot (centered on the butt-hole within 1/32"), and if the deer is not properly aligned, a massive amount of meat damage, and/or a messy gutting job will result, regardless of the caliber.   I did pull it off on my only attempt with my 06.  In 36 years of deer hunting, that was the only time that everything fell into place and I don't expect to see that again.   I have not heard of anyone else making that shot without at least a messy gutting job.   Since it was late in hunting season, and my venison supply was not yet secure, I was willing to risk that "mess".   There is always plenty of blood left in the cavity to rinse, and any meat is more than provided by an un-punched tag.  I was not willing to risk a wounded and non-recovered deer however.  Never have I been more certain of a quick kill than I was when that buck stood still,  with his butt-hole 50 yards away from the muzzle of my scoped, well-rested 30/06.  Putting the bullet into a 1/4" diameter opening under those conditions was no big deal with a rifle that has always held a 1" or smaller group at 100 yards with those Federal "classic" 150 gr loads.   

 As explained, the bullet entered the pre-existing butt-hole, so there was no need for it to cut thru the hide to get into the deer.   It made it up into the chest without leaving a mess of any kind (the butt-out II worked perfectly, doubling as a bore-gauge to verify the shot location)  and cut a shallow groove across the heart (Texas-style), but did not bloody that up at all.   On its way out, it cost me a small neck roast.   My guess is that if it were a faster, lighter .243 bullet, it might have bloodied up the heart and it surely would have taken out a lot more of the neck meat.     

As I explained in my first post, the very next deer that I processed that year was struck thru bone (the spine) with a heavier, slower bullet and the meat damage was many times less.  Although it was a shotgun, the 12 gauge Hornady SST uses a rifle bullet (looks to be .45 - .50 cal).  The point that I am making is that there is no caliber that I have seen used on deer, that causes more meat damage, on any shot, than the .243.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.   Lots of folks don't care all that much about the meat.  There are even one or two on this forum who believe that it is ALL about the antlers.    If that is your primary worry, then the .243 is a great deer round, quite possibly the very best.  Light recoil, and massive shock damage make for an accurate shot and a quick kill.    

As for me, a pure meat hunter, it is a caliber that I would never consider using for deer, based on that one bad butchering experience last fall.   I always try for the heart/lung shot, but since I am far from perfect, it is not always what I end up with.   I have only killed (3) deer with a high powered rifle (all 30/06), One mule deer and two whitetails.  The other whitetail was also hit with a Federal classic 150 gr.  That bullet hit the buck, that was quartering away at 300 yards, centered on the second last rib, dropping it in its tracks.  The bullet never exited and ended up in the inner, upper front leg on the opposite side.   The lungs were turned to jelly and the meat damage in the upper leg where the bullet ended up was minimal compared to the .243 - killed buck last fall.             

Excuse me for not reading all your posts here but exactly how many deer have seen killed with a .243 ??

[wolc123]

29 minutes ago, Lawdwaz said:

Excuse me for not reading all your posts here but exactly how many deer have seen killed with a .243 ??

I have never seen a deer killed with a .243, but I did butcher (2) that were killed with one last fall.   The 2.5 year old buck mentioned above and a doe fawn.  The doe fawn was hit thru the lungs, behind the shoulder, and there was minimal meat damage (bullet passed thru).   How would you rate the meat damage of the  .243,  compared to other calibers you have used, when the deer was struck in the shoulder ?    

Edited May 31, 2019 by wolc123

[Dinsdale]

8 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Excuse me for not reading all your posts here but exactly how many deer have seen killed with a .243 ??

The "1/32 of an inch" part is all you need to know about the vast experience of shot placement and knowledge of ballistics.

 

[LET EM GROW]

My buddy shoots 85gr or 100gr soft point pills for deer. Never an issue. Unless you smash the knuckle on a giant big bodied buck. He lost the biggest deer of his life to a hit in this location. Buck crumbled on the spot, laid there "dead" for 10 minutes. Then randomnly stood up, took off dragging its rear legs for 20 yards then gaining all 4 leg movement back and surviving until 2018 season where he was killed by a neighbor during archery in poor health. 

For varmints we both use 58gr vmax which are devastating to say the least lol.  

[Billdogge]

I have had good luck with factory Barnes.

[wolc123]

9 hours ago, LET EM GROW said:

 Never an issue. Unless you smash the knuckle on a giant big bodied buck. He lost the biggest deer of his life to a hit in this location. Buck crumbled on the spot, laid there "dead" for 10 minutes. Then randomnly stood up, took off dragging its rear legs for 20 yards then gaining all 4 leg movement back and surviving until 2018 season where he was killed by a neighbor during archery in poor health. 

 

That sounds like a big issue to me.   If "knuckle" means shoulder or hip, then it is hard for me to believe any deer could survive the hit from a .243.   Each of those was hit on the buck that I cut up last fall, and about half of the meat on the deer was destroyed as a result.    Your buddy's round must have been under-loaded, the wrong bullet,  or the deer was way out of range.   It might just be another reason to choose another caliber for deer.   I am glad I went with a 30/30, when I was contemplating a .243 but I still have to see how that one does on a deer.  My 30/06 has dropped all three dead in their tracks, but it is too damn big and heavy to lug around in the Adirondacks.   

[LET EM GROW]

On 5/31/2019 at 5:35 PM, wolc123 said:

That sounds like a big issue to me.   If "knuckle" means shoulder or hip, then it is hard for me to believe any deer could survive the hit from a .243.   Each of those was hit on the buck that I cut up last fall, and about half of the meat on the deer was destroyed as a result.    Your buddy's round must have been under-loaded, the wrong bullet,  or the deer was way out of range.   It might just be another reason to choose another caliber for deer.   I am glad I went with a 30/30, when I was contemplating a .243 but I still have to see how that one does on a deer.  My 30/06 has dropped all three dead in their tracks, but it is too damn big and heavy to lug around in the Adirondacks.   

Just goes to show, any bullet will probably do the job.. with the right shot placement. Again, shot placement is key just like in Archery. Unless you build an extremely heavy arrow(way overboard for energy needed on whitetail) you can break through shoulder knuckles..

Im not the one who uses the 243, so i cant speak as for him as to why.. Other than that buck. its dropped every deer in its tracks out to 200yrds. 

I myself take my 50cal ML, the 7-08 or 30-06. The only deer to take a pilll from my gun would be bigger bodied deer and i want the extra power on hand..