Don_C

Encounter with a neighbor today

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51 minutes ago, Belo said:

point of it is this. if you wanted to enforce trespassing laws, or take action related to him for illegally accessing the land, it would need to be the timber company. Him threatening you is a you vs him legal issue for sure. But him encroaching on private property, even if leased has to be dealt with by the land owner. Now I'm not a property lawyer so I could be wrong, but I'm 90% sure that's how it works. Again the DEC should give better advice. 

As a a person leasing the property it is permissible to post property and report trespassers. (This is no different than a person breaking into an apartment you lease is what I understand.) It is then a DEC matter, if the property is posted properly they will charge the individual. This is according to the officer I spoke with yesterday. He was very clear on how I need to post it in order to have anyone charged. Now, we all know LEOs are not lawyers, but I do know as someone who has leased in the past, it is within your rights to post and report trespassers.

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Can someone clarify the role of the DEC vs local LEO when it comes to trespassing? Assuming no firearm/threat involved, but repeated trespassing, DEC or LEO?

Edited by left field

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4 minutes ago, johnplav said:

Definitely post the property... but you can also do this:

Q. Must I post to keep people off my property?

A. No. Trespassing is illegal even on unposted property. Instead of posting, a landowner or other authorized person may issue written notice to another informing them that they are prohibited from a property. The notice must contain a description of the property, what restrictions apply (hunting, fishing, trapping) and the person or persons prohibited from entry. It should be delivered by certified mail or other processes to prove that the person was served. At any time, anyone asked to leave the premises, posted or not, by the landowner, occupant or other authorized person, must do so immediately.

 

 

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

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10 minutes ago, left field said:

Can someone clarify the role of the DEC vs local LEO when it comes to trespassing? Assuming no firearm/threat involved, but repeated trespassing, DEC or LEO?

I think either can write a charge for trespassing, but the ECO was very clear that if we catch him, or have pics of him taking any game from the property or walking it with a gun or bow during any open season, ie hunting, to call HIM not the SP.

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17 hours ago, Don_C said:

Nothing illegal about having a gun on you in the woods at any time in NYS for those who are using the term brandishing. Acting in a threatening manner is another story he said.

I don't believe anybody here, including me, used the word brandishing because of him having a gun in the woods. We used it because of what he did with that gun; what he said. 

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20 minutes ago, Don_C said:

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

Use the word "cellular camera" otherwise he will think he can just steal it and be done with it.

As for DEC I can't speak to what they can do, but the DEC officer who taught our bowhunting course made it clear that they are able to enforce all New York state laws, so they really have a wide berth to do whatever they want to.

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39 minutes ago, Core said:

Use the word "cellular camera" otherwise he will think he can just steal it and be done with it.

As for DEC I can't speak to what they can do, but the DEC officer who taught our bowhunting course made it clear that they are able to enforce all New York state laws, so they really have a wide berth to do whatever they want to.

I also remember the same thing from when I took one of my sons to his Hunter Ed class years ago. I thought he said they have the same authority as the State Police. I don't know one way or the other though.

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2 hours ago, Don_C said:

Exactly, to say you can't enforce trespass laws as a lessee is just not true.  But, I'm done worrying about this,  we'll take it as it comes. He will pattern us and hunt around us, but we will catch him on camera.

 The ECO was informative and perhaps more importantly, I started the conversation with the authorities. He told me there are a lot of new leases in the area and this is a very common problem right now. Post it and call him immediately, they will charge them with trespassing if I want to. I will be calm but firm with him, if he is harassing or threatening in any way with a gun again, I will call the SP immediately. I have cameras all over, I will put more up this weekend near his access points/stands. I already informed him that there are cameras all over and we have plenty of pics of him and his son and friend. He was a bit surprised at that.

i should clarify. Enforcing is different than a court battle. if it came to that.

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"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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Sounds like a problem..... guys like this you can't give them 1 inch or they'll take it a mile.  They will definitely pattern you early.  Show up and hunt often.  Make sure if he or his son tracks a deer they call or text you every time.  Nowadays people take walking rights, access rights, etc. as permission to trespass

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Don - when I bought our 95 acres in summer of ‘14 we had a similar problem but no threats. We live here as well which certainly helps. The 95 acres was part of about 300 !that this family and their friends had hunted as well as others over the years.  The phrase Free For All fit this property.    What I did was make to large signs and put them on the access points that used to be used. I stenciled this. NEW LANDOWNER. ALL PRIOR HUNTING PERMISSION IS NO LONGER VALID.  My son called it the asshole sign. We have not seen a single hunter or track in the past 5 seasons. You may want to need to place several around the property and st least one along the road but I would suggest that it's worth the  time.  Do it ASAP 

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A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

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12 hours ago, nybuckboy said:

Don - when I bought our 95 acres in summer of ‘14 we had a similar problem but no threats. We live here as well which certainly helps. The 95 acres was part of about 300 !that this family and their friends had hunted as well as others over the years.  The phrase Free For All fit this property.    What I did was make to large signs and put them on the access points that used to be used. I stenciled this. NEW LANDOWNER. ALL PRIOR HUNTING PERMISSION IS NO LONGER VALID.  My son called it the asshole sign. We have not seen a single hunter or track in the past 5 seasons. You may want to need to place several around the property and st least one along the road but I would suggest that it's worth the  time.  Do it ASAP 

it's sort of interesting reading this. We get 2 types of threads like this. It's either a thread like this where someone buys/leases some land and has neighbor problems, or the opposite where someone loses land. We always seem to support the poster of course and the way the guy who lost his hunting spot in this thread is not ok, we do have to remember that one mans gain is another mans loss. We're not fortunate to live out west where the public land is plentiful and game rich. the adirondacks may be some of the hardest hunting east of the mississippi and that's the best comparison to the west we have. 

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"Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching, even when the wrong thing is legal"

-Aldo Leopold 

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13 hours ago, nybuckboy said:

Don - when I bought our 95 acres in summer of ‘14 we had a similar problem but no threats. We live here as well which certainly helps. The 95 acres was part of about 300 !that this family and their friends had hunted as well as others over the years.  The phrase Free For All fit this property.    What I did was make to large signs and put them on the access points that used to be used. I stenciled this. NEW LANDOWNER. ALL PRIOR HUNTING PERMISSION IS NO LONGER VALID.  My son called it the asshole sign. We have not seen a single hunter or track in the past 5 seasons. You may want to need to place several around the property and st least one along the road but I would suggest that it's worth the  time.  Do it ASAP 

This is exactly what my son suggested for the front gate.  They are down there now putting up some signs on the far corners. I'm hoping he runs into this guy so we can get a fresh perspective on him.

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26 minutes ago, Belo said:

it's sort of interesting reading this. We get 2 types of threads like this. It's either a thread like this where someone buys/leases some land and has neighbor problems, or the opposite where someone loses land. We always seem to support the poster of course and the way the guy who lost his hunting spot in this thread is not ok, we do have to remember that one mans gain is another mans loss. We're not fortunate to live out west where the public land is plentiful and game rich. the adirondacks may be some of the hardest hunting east of the mississippi and that's the best comparison to the west we have. 

I see your point, and you are correct, we all usually take the side of the poster if he's been around here for a while, but plenty of threads have turned on the OP for doing something illegal or unethical also.  If my original post was that I have been hunting property for years that I never had permission to hunt and it was leased to a group of guys this year, you would say "well that sucks, but you had a nice run, and you should have leased it yourself" .

 

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Well I may have a solution to the shooting across the lines.

The lumber company sent in a crew to doze the skid roads and clear tree tops from them, of course after we spent the summer killing ourselves with chainsaws and brush cutters.  I'm going down to see if I can pay them to pile the tree tops inside the line, in front of their box stands. One of the things this guy bitched about was how the loggers screwed things up for him when they put the main access road in, the one his stands are on, now they are making it bigger and wider for me. This is really going to upset him. I'm going to use this as an opportunity to speak with him in a more professional level, explaining that this is a logging operation, they have rules, they have lawyers, we have contracts, there are laws and liabilities. I am hopeful I can turn his anger to the corporation and away from us.

 

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13 minutes ago, Don_C said:

Well I may have a solution to the shooting across the lines.

The lumber company sent in a crew to doze the skid roads and clear tree tops from them, of course after we spent the summer killing ourselves with chainsaws and brush cutters.  I'm going down to see if I can pay them to pile the tree tops inside the line, in front of their box stands. One of the things this guy bitched about was how the loggers screwed things up for him when they put the main access road in, the one his stands are on, now they are making it bigger and wider for me. This is really going to upset him. I'm going to use this as an opportunity to speak with him in a more professional level, explaining that this is a logging operation, they have rules, they have lawyers, we have contracts, there are laws and liabilities. I am hopeful I can turn his anger to the corporation and away from us.

 

Sounds very reasonable, but he's going to already be mad the lumber company is coming in so don't expect the best reaction out of him 

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1 hour ago, Don_C said:

Well I may have a solution to the shooting across the lines.

The lumber company sent in a crew to doze the skid roads and clear tree tops from them, of course after we spent the summer killing ourselves with chainsaws and brush cutters.  I'm going down to see if I can pay them to pile the tree tops inside the line, in front of their box stands. One of the things this guy bitched about was how the loggers screwed things up for him when they put the main access road in, the one his stands are on, now they are making it bigger and wider for me. This is really going to upset him. I'm going to use this as an opportunity to speak with him in a more professional level, explaining that this is a logging operation, they have rules, they have lawyers, we have contracts, there are laws and liabilities. I am hopeful I can turn his anger to the corporation and away from us.

 

Make sure you have your phone set to audio record before you talk to him again.

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Kind of a devil's  advocate  here . The OP  said in original  post  that he gave permission  to come on the property to track recover deer.  He gave permission to come on the property....  I am betting he will be searching for lost deer all the time . And unless the judge  hates trespassers  as much as we do  he is going to side on caution with a warning ... if the police  even write the ticket.

 Not trying  to start something... I have discussed  this with a trooper family member.   Just a thought .

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Well it worked. Today on my way out, a guy stepped out if the brush in front of my atv. Holding a rifle. He was not hunting. I was polite and introduced myself, as did he. After some chit chat I told him we will respect property lines and we expect the same. His response was, and I quote. “I brought this in case I ran into any trouble” and looked at his 22 rifle. I knew what he meant.

 

Then he said “I dont know what you are saying to me” I said no hunting or shooting across lines, if you are tracking a deer no problem, have at it. He said “ I have been hunting this area for 40 years, it ain’t changing now. I am an armed citizen and no one is taking anything from me.” He looked down at the .22 he was holding then leaned it against a tree. I responded, I understand. I defused it by asking about other people i have on camera. He said they are his son and his friend. Hmmmm.

Here's one thing you can do if you wanted to really make things hot for the guy. From your fist post you could have a case to try out NY's Red Flag Law.

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On 9/9/2019 at 4:03 PM, Steuben Jerry said:

Going along with the temp thread derailment, how do you change the wording just below your screen name? Mine says "elite hunter" which strikes me as kind of pompous as I don't think I'm an elite anything.

Is it related to post count or some such?

I’m laughing out for real here! I just noticed my elite hunter got changed! So I guess it’s not user-changeable. Funny chit!!

I’ll see if I can live up to it. First I’ll have to decide if I want to be magisterial or haughty at work tomorrow.

 

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Edited by Steuben Jerry
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