Bullet choices for deer.

[chrisw]

Will you take hard quartering to or facing shots?


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Hard quartering to shot, no. Hard quartering away I don't like either and I refrain from them whenever I can. If your windage is off in either direction only a matter of inches it will have dramatic effect on your success. You can try to spin this however you like, I have killed a lot of deer with all implements and am very familiar with anatomy and angles and the straight away shot is not a recommended one. Have you ever shot a deer and when/if you recovered it realized that the deer wasn't as broadside or at the angle you thought it was? I have, as have most if not all, now throw that factor into your equation and tell me the results. Or how about shooting from an elevated position? Or shooting up a ridge at an ass? How do you get a bullet into the lungs from an anything but level ground, dead straight away from you angle? You don't.

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[Lawdwaz]

I'd like to see some paper target bullseyes placed at 50, 75 or 100 yards in the woods or field and see how many guys can hit the quarter sized center..........from a field position, not a bench.

ONE SHOT......

[airedale]

24 minutes ago, chrisw said:

But apparently the hunters defending it never miss their mark by any amount...

It is all about knowing and having confidence in your weapon and shooting skills along being totally honest with yourself about such skills. I don't miss my mark, when I pull the trigger I know exactly where the bullet is going to hit. That comes from a lot of practice something too many hunters neglect, a half dozen shots at a target before season and they are good to go and that is where the poor shooting disasters start.

A hunter that does not have confidence in making the shot should not pull the trigger.

Al

Edited December 14, 2019 by airedale

[Nytracker]

Boy did this  thread get sideways....  Thanks for the information pertaining  to the original  post .  As always theres good information to be gleaned from so many people's experiences. 

We get lost in opinions.... While I do value opinions when derived  by facts it's never a good thing to argue opinions  as that  causes emotional responses. Which clouds the facts.

As always thanks for responding 

 

[Buckmaster7600]

Not directed to me but I don’t like those shots either but it is a little different.  You can aim at vitals from front vs traveling 1/2 the deer before hitting vitals.   Either way, I much prefer broadside or close to broadside.  A deer directly facing you also leaves little room for error.   Would you take that shot at say 200yds?   Would you take take a broadside shot at 200yds?   I suspect many would answer no to the first and yes to the second.  Why - less room for error.  

If I’m shooting 200yds at a deer than most likely I’m in a tree stand over a field or big cut and there’s no reason to take a facing shot because I have time to wait for him to turn. If he’s facing me he’s either going to walk closer than 200yds or turn and head a different direction. Situation dictates. If I’m sitting I’m never going to take a frontal or ass shot because there’s no need you’ll have time for a less messy shot. If I’ve tracked a buck all day and he gets out of his bed in front of me at 50-100yds away and is heading opposite direction you bet your ass “or his” I’m shooting.




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[Buckmaster7600]

Hard quartering to shot, no. Hard quartering away I don't like either and I refrain from them whenever I can. If your windage is off in either direction only a matter of inches it will have dramatic effect on your success. You can try to spin this however you like, I have killed a lot of deer with all implements and am very familiar with anatomy and angles and the straight away shot is not a recommended one. Have you ever shot a deer and when/if you recovered it realized that the deer wasn't as broadside or at the angle you thought it was? I have, as have most if not all, now throw that factor into your equation and tell me the results. Or how about shooting from an elevated position? Or shooting up a ridge at an ass? How do you get a bullet into the lungs from an anything but level ground, dead straight away from you angle? You don't.

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You just perfectly explained why I am for the middle. If you’re aiming for the middle angles don’t matter. And if you’re off by a few inches your still going through a lot of deer, the more deer that bullet goes through the better the chances of the bullet hitting something vital or knocking it down for a coup de grace.


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[moog5050]

43 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

If I’m shooting 200yds at a deer than most likely I’m in a tree stand over a field or big cut and there’s no reason to take a facing shot because I have time to wait for him to turn. If he’s facing me he’s either going to walk closer than 200yds or turn and head a different direction. Situation dictates. If I’m sitting I’m never going to take a frontal or ass shot because there’s no need you’ll have time for a less messy shot. If I’ve tracked a buck all day and he gets out of his bed in front of me at 50-100yds away and is heading opposite direction you bet your ass “or his” I’m shooting.




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But that’s the point.  You wait for the deer to turn for a reason.  It’s a higher percentage shot. I understand your point that you like to track and your style may require that shot.   Still not a shot most of us would teach our kids to take.  If that makes me too proud, so be it.  

[Lawdwaz]

I still don’t miss stormy.....

[moog5050]

58 minutes ago, Nytracker said:

Boy did this  thread get sideways....  Thanks for the information pertaining  to the original  post .  As always theres good information to be gleaned from so many people's experiences. 

We get lost in opinions.... While I do value opinions when derived  by facts it's never a good thing to argue opinions  as that  causes emotional responses. Which clouds the facts.

As always thanks for responding 

 

Sorry.   Back to your program.   I hunt mostly shotgun areas until the last two years.   Killed deer with 270 and 30-30.   Both did the job.   Out to 300, I am sure the 270 is a better option.  Creedmoor is next up.   

[grampy]

As a hunter ed instructor, we teach new hunters to always take the highest percentage shot, for a quick clean kill. The butt shot is not one of them. In fact we discourage those shots in class. Once a hunter has gained experience with their firearm, and their own abilities, they can make their own choices. But it is not something advised, or taught to new hunters for a good reason. Too much could go wrong, by being just a little off with shot placement. Leading to a horribly slow and painful death to the deer, and or, no deer recovered by the hunter.

Speaking only for myself, I've passed up a good many deer, that only offered a rear shot, or hard quartering. It's just not worth it. And I do consider myself experienced, as well as very comfortable with the firearm I'm using.

To each their own. But I've mentored a good many hunters, and never, have I encouraged that shot to be taken.

 

[goosifer]

At the risk of getting verbally beaten like a pinata, if it is close and still, would a back of the head/neck shot be a better option than the Texas heart shot? Maybe it's just my Sicilian coming through.

[Buckmaster7600]

But that’s the point.  You wait for the deer to turn for a reason.  It’s a higher percentage shot. I understand your point that you like to track and your style may require that shot.   Still not a shot most of us would teach our kids to take.  If that makes me too proud, so be it.  

A proper rifle bullet going end for end of a deer is about as high percentage as you can get. My reason for waiting has nothing to do with percentages, like I said before “less messy.”

My point of jumping into this argument had nothing to do with what we want to teach our kids. It was to Jeremy’s point on it being “ethical.” I will stick to my guns and still say that when done with a proper bullet an ass shot is a 100% ethical shot. A bullet going end for end of a deer no matter what it’s entry point is 100% lethal and usually in a very short time.

Stupid argument to begin with you’re going to take shots you want to and are comfortable with as will I and neither of us are going to change each others minds.

If that shot makes me an unethical hunter than so be it.



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[TreeGuy]

At the risk of getting verbally beaten like a pinata, if it is close and still, would a back of the head/neck shot be a better option than the Texas heart shot? Maybe it's just my Sicilian coming through.

Stay away from the head.... But if you must do a head or neck, you better be dang sure of your abilities as a marksman. 1 inch off and that deer could end up wounded and not recovered AKA coyote bait. But, if a neck shot is well placed, DRT.

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[moog5050]

18 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Stay away from the head.... 

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DRT if a good shot but gruesome.   I made that mistake once.   Never again.   

[Buckmaster7600]

DRT if a good shot but gruesome.   I made that mistake once.   Never again.   

I agree, that’s a shot I will never take! Zero margin for error and absolutely disgusting if successful.


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[goosifer]

This season, a guy I was hunting with hit a buck in the high neck area and the bullet ricocheted up into the skull (as best we could tell). It ended up causing the left eyeball of the buck to bulge halfway out. We called it the Marty Feldman buck.

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by goosifer
dyslexia?

[moog5050]

12 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I agree, that’s a shot I will never take! Zero margin for error and absolutely disgusting if successful.


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Bedded doe.   20g took 1/2 of head off.   Felt like I had to hide it from family when butchering.   Dead is dead but it felt wrong.   

[Buckmaster7600]

Bedded doe.   20g took 1/2 of head off.   Felt like I had to hide it from family when butchering.   Dead is dead but it felt wrong.   

 

Yup, been there. Mine was a finishing shot on a doe I hit in the spine and don’t realize. I shot her in an overgrown field walked up to her and the started getting up so I shot at what I would see. Hit her in the nose and the rest was very gruesome. Live and learn that’s for sure.

 

 

 

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[Daveboone]

3 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Stay away from the head.... But if you must do a head or neck, you better be dang sure of your abilities as a marksman. 1 inch off and that deer could end up wounded and not recovered AKA coyote bait. But, if a neck shot is well placed, DRT.

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I have chosen a base of the neck shot a fair number of times. A bit high, you brain em, a bit low you still take out the neck. Gruesome yes, but the deer were no deader than if I shot them elsewhere. I chose this shot over a butt shot each time, which I will not take (and which my rifle and I can easily handle). I am aiming directly at the kill zone, not two feet in front of where the vitals are and most likely if I pull the shot to the sides, the deer is missed. As is mentioned previously, if the deer isn't angled perfectly for the rear shot for you despite your best aiming, very unhappy results follow. I love whitetails. The most beautiful animal on the planet, and I am sorry each time I kill one, but that is part of the life. I do not have to and will not take a questionable shot, and my intent is to utilize the deer to the best of my skill and utility. It starts with the pull of the trigger. There are a lot of deer in the woods. I can wait for the next one. All the folks I knew who felt they had to shoot at every seen deer I eventually quit hunting with  because they were ...a little too eager to shoot in general. 

[Borngeechee]

I use the old standby 150gr Remington CorLokt in my 308. Inexpensive but works.

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[Pygmy]

1 hour ago, Borngeechee said:

I use the old standby 150gr Remington CorLokt in my 308. Inexpensive but works.

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That bullet has been killing deer and other big game for going on 100 years...If it works, don't fix it...

As much fun as it is for some of us gun nuts to discuss pros and cons of different bullets, it is mostly just splitting hairs....Apply most any  modern bullet that is designed for medium  or big game hunting to a vital spot on the animal, and you will have meat in short order..

[TreeGuy]

That bullet has been killing deer and other big game for going on 100 years...If it works, don't fix it...
As much fun as it is for some of us gun nuts to discuss pros and cons of different bullets, it is mostly just splitting hairs....Apply most any  modern bullet that is designed for medium  or big game hunting to a vital spot on the animal, and you will have meat in short order..

Unfortunately, they are the least accurate out of my savage. If the SST is a 1" group the rem was 3". Hornadys American whitetail held groups much better.

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[Pygmy]

1 hour ago, TreeGuy said:

Unfortunately, they are the least accurate out of my savage. If the SST is a 1" group the rem was 3". Hornadys American whitetail held groups much better.

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Every rifle is an individual....

[LET EM GROW]

On 12/14/2019 at 3:04 AM, wolc123 said:

Probably because venison is better eating than paper.   A better question would be "Why not take that shot ? "  These examples show that a shot taken from the rear can result in less meat damage than one taken from the front.  If the only alternative is an unfilled tag, it would seem dumb not to take that shot.  There still seems to be a few folks, on some kind of moral/ethical high horse, who are just too proud to ever consider such a thing.  Hopefully they enjoy their store-bought chicken.   I prefer red meat.               

I agree sir, im not knocking it. he does that on his own property thats fine but not on mine. He also had 3 tags filled already. Im not 8itchin, the animal was harvested ethically. But there wont be ass shots taken on my property. 

[HuntHarder20]

Despite the caliber by far the best bullets that stay together for a in and out(two hole)delivery on game are Barnes TSX/TTSX/LRX. Also wanted to note that Swift A-Frame bullets are amazing as well and perform almost the same as the Barnes. The Barnes are solid copper and the Swift is a lead and copper bullet with a partition in the middle and bonded point in the front. I’ve used both very accurately and with perfect results