Long shot's

[WNYBuckHunter]

Isn't the distance a person takes a shot a personal matter..unless everyone has a guide looking over their shoulder telling them to shoot or not to shoot it to far not to far... and i don't think thats really hunting. An individual has to make the decision based on his/her experiance, abilities,equipment and conditions the only person who know this is the person loosing the arrow... and they must be able to live with and accept the choice they make. You've never made a long shot so what...some people have and practice to make them.

Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

[sits in trees]

for me its how close i can get to deer, i like to hear em breathing when i draw...long shot put make it all up to the deer, one small movement at a 68 yd shot by the deer and you have a bad or marginal hit. you can have all the confidence in the world and hit a pie plate at 80 every time, it all doesnt mean a thing because where i hunt deer move...

[Doc]

Isn't the distance a person takes a shot a personal matter..unless everyone has a guide looking over their shoulder telling them to shoot or not to shoot it to far not to far... and i don't think thats really hunting. An individual has to make the decision based on his/her experiance, abilities,equipment and conditions the only person who know this is the person loosing the arrow... and they must be able to live with and accept the choice they make. You've never made a long shot so what...some people have and practice to make them.

Actually, I have made a lot of long shots. I used to shoot NFAA field archery and one of the targets was at 80 yards. There were also shots past 50 yards and they were great fun. I still like to shoot long distances at targets on an archery range. So I do understand what capabilities people can have at long distances with a bow on an archery range at a stationery target. That really has nothing to do with hunting conditions and live animals that have the capability of moving at any minute.

But, you are right. The distance that a person wishes to shoot is completely up to them. And the consequences that may or may not result are completely on them. And I am assuming that bad results will actually bother them so they are supposedly motivated to make good choices. But every time this discussion comes up, all I hear is what people can do at the archery range like that's the only consideration. Frankly that's not the only consideration and its not even the most important consideration (in my opinion). But all I can do is to bring up the points against super long shots as I see them and after that, as you say, the final decision is really up to them.

[sweet old bill]

I use to shoot NFAA and you shot from 10 yards to 80 yards. I am in the top A class and sure you put a arrow into a target at 65 yards. BUt that was target in a survey done by the NY DEC years ago almost 80% of deer taken was under 20 yards, another 15% was over 20 years and less than 30 yards and then the rest was like 0ver 30 but less than 40 yards. Now if I had a tool to measure the distance and was a killed archer in total open I may shoot, but I no longer shoot like that. Hell I let a lot walk at under 25 yards due to brush in the way or the change of hitting a twig during first light or last light.

[Doc]

Hell I let a lot walk at under 25 yards due to brush in the way or the chance of hitting a twig during first light or last light.

And yet another good point. I have noticed how a branch or a twig that shows up good in full daylight starts losing definition as the light fades toward sunset. Sometimes we think we have a good clear shooting lane. But lower the light a bit and try to spot every little twig and branch at 50 or 60 yards or more.

[A Sportsman]

Doc,

For what its worth, i couldn't agree more with you. Frankly, I'm having a tough time understanding how anyone can not agree with the point you are making. As hunters, our goal is to be the best we can be in terms of success in the woods, and as stewards of the land and wildlife. In that pursuit, we can control so much with the decisions we make. Such as buying the gear that works best for us, scouting, practicing shooting, maintaining our own safety, etc. But here we are talking about a situation where once that arrow is released, all things within our control are moot and whether or not that deer is killed has so much to do with fate. How a hunter can argue that this is ethical is beyond me. We are supposed to be sportsmen. If the deer is out of reasonable bow range, a sportsman lets it go. who knows maybe you get to see him next time...at 13 yards quartering away.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How a hunter can argue that this is ethical is beyond me. We are supposed to be sportsmen. If the deer is out of reasonable bow range, a sportsman lets it go.

Ok. No disrespect, but if it is that easy to define, let's do it. How far is ethical and what ia "the" reasonable range.

[Doc]

Ok. No disrespect, but if it is that easy to define, let's do it. How far is ethical and what ia "the" reasonable range.

For me (and I stress for me) the traditional range of a bow back in 1965 when I first started was 20 yards and under. That seemed to be the distance where I felt that it would take something extraordinary to make me miss. That was the distance where I could clearly see all obstructions and where I spent most of my time practicing. It was also close enough to negate a lot of what the deer could do to evade the arrow (including casual incidental movement). Not guaranteed, because nothing in any kind of hunting is guaranteed), but a shot where the odds were put very heavily in my favor. Over the years, with the advent of the compound, that range for me increased to around 25 and I feel pretty darned confident out to 30 yards. To this day, I absolutely will not take a shot over 30 yards, and almost always, I will wait until I can get back down to my old favorite ..... 20 yards or less. That distance is very clear to me as being a very high percentage shot which is exactly what I am after. Yes, I can do a pretty respectable job of shooting out to 40 yards, but that applies on the archery range.

I guess I was brought into bowhunting at a time when archery was considered a close range sport and that was exactly what drew me to it. That was before all the hype about super fast bows got people believing that their latest $1000 purchase performed almost as good as a gun.....lol. Yes equipment has changed radically but it is still a close range hunting activity and most of the things that would foil a shot 40 years ago still exist today. Deer still move. unseen twigs and limbs still exist. unplanned shooting hick-ups still occur. And the farther the shooting distance the more likely one or more of these things will occur. Considering all of that, even with my super fast, low trajectory, miracle-bow (a bit of sarcasm there), I still feel better about a very short shot that emphasizes the hunting part of bowhunting rather than seeing how far I can shoot which is emphasizing the marksmanship (I put in plenty of time on the archery range to satisfy that itch on my archery range).

So, considering all that has been talked about in this thread, that magical distance really wasn't that hard for me to arrive at. I think anyone can easily figure out what's a good max distance for themselves as long as they honestly assess all of the real limitations of bowhunting as we have been discussing in this thread. What really bothers me is when people make that decision based only or mainly on what they can do on the archery range. That is one of the least reliable critera.

[fasteddie]

I totally understand that even a blind squirrel finds an acorn occasionally.

Doc --- put away the BB gun so you won't shoot their eyes out !

[G-Man]

I agree with you doc, it is a close range sport and its the individual that make the decision in the end, it holds true for gun as well. i find it hard to miss a shot with a gun under 50 yards. but i consistantly see guns sighted in for 200 yrds since they allwed rifle hunting in my county. i always ask where do you hut that you can even shoot 200yds? my woods are to thick in most spots to even see 50-75 yrds... then the guy with the 200 yrd sight in shoots high when the deer walks out at 30 yrds and can't understand what happened. You practice and become proficient at the range you expect your shots to mostly be at. Wait till X-bow comes out and guys are flinging bolts try to hit something at 50 yrds + and see it deflect of unseen limbs.. there will be a lot of cheap used x-bows in a few years

[nyantler]

An unethical distance is one you know you shouldn't be shooting from... i know there are some that can shoot remarkably at distances greater than 20 yards.. and who am I to say they shouldn't.. most hunters know their limitations... if you're shooting beyond those limitations then I would think your ethics could be in question

That thought is based on hunting as we know it today as a sport and a conservation effort.. if I'm hunting to eat... ethics gets thrown out the window... and I'm banking on the deer 50-60, hell.. 100 yards away running into my arrow.

Edited September 17, 2011 by nyantler

[burmjohn]

An unethical distance is one you know you shouldn't be shooting from... i know there are some that can shoot remarkably at distances greater than 20 yards.. and who am I to say they shouldn't.. most hunters know their limitations... if you're shooting beyond those limitations then I would think your ethics could be in question

I agree 100% - you can not put a number on an unethical shot with out knowing the area at hand and the bow hunters experience and expertise.

[Doc]

I agree 100% - you can not put a number on an unethical shot with out knowing the area at hand and the bow hunters experience and expertise.

But you can and should put a number on your own shot distance and it should be based on all of the variables that deer and bowhunting involves. And that number is not established only by the results at the archery range. I know that some people have a problem assessing the variables when they come up with a personal hunting proficiency range that begins to sound like something that you might consider appropriate for a shotgun ..... lol. Perhaps some are more willing to let "luck" play a bigger part in the results than others are. That's a personal decision too because whether we like to admit it or not, no matter what the distance, there is still some level of luck involved. I guess it's our job to minimize the impact of luck as much as we are able to.

I suppose that experience helps add a little realism into those shooting distance assessments. When you have personally encountered deflections and finally recognize just how small an obstruction it takes to send an arrow off target, you begin to examine just what distances you can really see something that tiny. I suppose once you see just how good those relexes of a deer are, it dawns on you that you are not shooting at a stationary bale of hay. Once you have had a down-range wind grab ahold of an arrow, you start to realize that conditions where you are standing doesn't necessarily relate to those between you and the deer. And if you ever have the occasion to work out the math of shot distance versus how far and how fast a deer can move with just a casual step, all these things combine to convince you that bowhunting is indeed a very short range hunting activity.

[WNYBuckHunter]

But you can and should put a number on your own shot distance and it should be based on all of the variables that deer and bowhunting involves. And that number is not established only by the results at the archery range.

Right, but I dont believe anyone has said that it should be based solely upon one's skill at the range.

[Doc]

Right, but I dont believe anyone has said that it should be based solely upon one's skill at the range.

As I have said several times already, anytime this subject comes up, we get all these replies that trot out a whole list of aquaintances or videos that they have seen that demonstrate amazing things done on the archery range, and never is there any mention of any other factors being part of the shooting distance equation. The implication is obvious ...... If you are able to shoot coffee cup groups at 60 or 70 yards, you're ready to take those shots at deer. I have yet to hear any advocates of long bow shots ever acknowledge that there are any other considerations when deciding how far to shoot.

My answer has consistantly been that of all the considerations for that decision, archery range performance is way down on the list of criteria. And yet I will guarantee that we will see that same reply repeated many more times that the decision for how far a bowhunter should shoot should be based on his ability.

[Doewhacker]

All I know is after reading the long shots and Texas heart shot threads I am ready to try a 100 yard Texas Heart shot, who's with me?

[Doc]

All I know is after reading the long shots and Texas heart shot threads I am ready to try a 100 yard Texas Heart shot, who's with me?

Let's do it!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

All I know is after reading the long shots and Texas heart shot threads I am ready to try a 100 yard Texas Heart shot, who's with me?

Im in!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

As I have said several times already, anytime this subject comes up, we get all these replies that trot out a whole list of aquaintances or videos that they have seen that demonstrate amazing things done on the archery range, and never is there any mention of any other factors being part of the shooting distance equation. The implication is obvious ...... If you are able to shoot coffee cup groups at 60 or 70 yards, you're ready to take those shots at deer. I have yet to hear any advocates of long bow shots ever acknowledge that there are any other considerations when deciding how far to shoot.

My answer has consistantly been that of all the considerations for that decision, archery range performance is way down on the list of criteria. And yet I will guarantee that we will see that same reply repeated many more times that the decision for how far a bowhunter should shoot should be based on his ability.

You can go back in this thread and look at my first 5 replies to find where many other factors involved in making a long shot on the deer are plainly mentioned, actually focused upon. Never say never

[Doc]

You can go back in this thread and look at my first 5 replies to find where many other factors involved in making a long shot on the deer are plainly mentioned, actually focused upon. Never say never

I don't understand why you are taking this all so personally. I have not been naming names. How does that saying go? ..."it's not always all about you"

[skyhunter]

I had a New Mexico elk guide that put them consistently into the vital area of the 3D target at 100 yards. Ability and ethics are 2 different things and while we don't want just anybody thinking this is OK to try, it is a good thing that they put up the disclaimer that this was a professional shooter executing that long distance shot.

Each individual shooter should have their own standard.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I don't understand why you are taking this all so personally. I have not been naming names. How does that saying go? ..."it's not always all about you"

Oh Im not taking it personally, you just said that you never see people talk about any factors other than what the do at the range. I just pointed out that its been talked about through this whole thread.

[newbee]

I would love to be able to, but I wouldn't.. impressive to say the least though

[Doc]

Oh Im not taking it personally, you just said that you never see people talk about any factors other than what the do at the range. I just pointed out that its been talked about through this whole thread.

Oh my gosh ..... try to discuss a topic and along comes Bill Clinton trying to change the topic to a discussion of what "is" means ..... lol.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Oh my gosh ..... try to discuss a topic and along comes Bill Clinton trying to change the topic to a discussion of what "is" means ..... lol.

Smoking your lunch Doc?