Contest Shut Down By Antis

[Five Seasons]

On 1/28/2020 at 3:05 PM, Belo said:

i remember the bill that came up on this, I actually sent it to Rinella because it bothered me. Here was the post in that thread from April of 2019

 

I know not everyone loves Rinella, but he has the #1 outdoor podcast and an estimated couple hundred thousand listeners each episode. I emailed them a few weeks ago to alert them to this topic and he actually brought it up in this weeks live episode. I thought that it was pretty cool and the more awareness the better.

 

Starts around the 1 hour mark

 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-meateater-podcast/id960902903?i=1000436052254

 

and in case you missed it Phade, I did take action in opposition to the bill that was proposed to ban tournaments. 

[Jeremy K]

41 minutes ago, NFA-ADK said:

Why support it?  It helps WILDLIFE!  Killing the top predator allows all the little game animals we love to hunt, others love to view to thrive and expand.  Tell that to your anti's. 

The whole "If you kill them they will only breed more." concept is the dumbest thing I have ever heard, humans have wiped out entire populations literally and can still do it.  With the exception of insects there is not a population we could not wipe out if we really wanted to.  

I am not that into contests when talking about hunting game yet have no objections to them or if they fall by the wayside.  I do feel that they encourage us to get out and participate and if it stopped would not cause hunting to stop.  I do hate the anti's and have stated that I would stand with them on deer population controlled by Government, simply put they (big brother) are not an effective tool for population control.  IMO

I wear my camo hat everyday (In circles where anti's thrive.) and I am willing to debate hunting with any anti who is willing to have a normal conversation.  I never hide my deer and always have them on the outside of the truck when transporting and drive real slow so everyone can see.  Some will say that gives the anti's more fuel but this is how it has been done for years and I will never hide what I love to do and when I am successful at it.  I promote archery and deer hunting through seminars and have written letters to officials multiple times on a variety of issues. 

What did I do to support this effort, nothing.  Go ahead and beat me down I can take it, lol.  Just because I was not an active supporter for one issues does not make me an anti!  I do agree if you want to support something like this you should put forth the effort to make links to elected officials along with pre-written statements.  This would be a great start for someone who wants to get us to show our support and I would join in with e-mailing elected officials and other things to help the cause.   

 

 

It's been proven that  coyotes will Increase litter size if the population decreases. Ive been listening to Dan Flores on the subject of coyote recently and never realized how incredible these creatures are . I have way more respect for them then I did before learning more about them.

[Rattler]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

If you are intent on knocking down coyote numbers to boost deer or small game numbers on your land, forget plugging the random predator during deer season and focus on the fawning season. Removing coyotes from the landscape in April or May means there is less time for other coyotes to move in. Most coyote control efforts in sheep country, for instance, take place right before or during the lambing season, for good reason. That’s when it helps reduce livestock loss the most.

Have you checked the NY regs on the coyote hunting season?  Seems to me NY is not at all interested in reducing coyote numbers in this state.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rattler

[steve863]

1 minute ago, Jeremy K said:

It's been proven that  coyotes will Increase litter size if the population decreases. Ive been listening to Dan Flores on the subject of coyote recently and never realized how incredible these creatures are . I have way more respect for them then I did before learning more about them.

 

I've heard them referred to as "rats" in this thread, but I think these creatures deserve way more respect than that. 

[Rattler]

5 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

It's been proven that  coyotes will Increase litter size if the population decreases. Ive been listening to Dan Flores on the subject of coyote recently and never realized how incredible these creatures are . I have way more respect for them then I did before learning more about them.

Incredible?  How about invasive?  Way more respect?  I have way more concern that we are not allowing the solutions to this invasion to be implemented.

[Rattler]

1 minute ago, steve863 said:

 

I've heard them referred to as "rats" in this thread, but I think these creatures deserve way more respect than that. 

Based on what?

[chrisw]

Based on what?

How many coyotes do you kill each year Rattler?

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[Rattler]

Every one I see.

[steve863]

Just now, Rattler said:

Based on what?

Based on the fact that rats are scavengers that feed off of garbage that humans left behind.  Coyotes find their own way in the wild and can very nicely fend and survive on their own without any help from man. 

[Rattler]

2 minutes ago, steve863 said:

Based on the fact that rats are scavengers that feed off of garbage that humans left behind.  Coyotes find their own way in the wild and can very nicely fend and survive on their own without any help from man. 

At this time maybe.  What do you think they would do if their numbers were allowed to multiply without restraint?  They already take small pets and have even attacked small children where their numbers are too high.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rattler

[chrisw]

Every one I see.

Which is how many?

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[Rattler]

BTW, it's man helping to supply them with the venison they so enjoy.  If we didn't, they would kill all the deer and move on to better feeding and kill all of those deer, then move again, forever.

 

[steve863]

Just now, Rattler said:

At this time maybe.  What do you think they would do if their numbers were allowed to multiply without restraint?  They already take small pets and have even attacked small children where their numbers are too high.

 

You see, you are automatically making an assumption here that I am against controlling their numbers by simply saying that they deserve more respect than "rats".   You are being NO different than the flaming liberal who make automatic assumptions about hunters, guns owners, church goers, etc. without hearing the rest of their stories.

 

 

 

 

[Jeremy K]

Only humans have spread over a larger area . I'm all for hunting or trapping but to label them as rats or down play how Intelligent they are is just ignorant. 

[Rattler]

1 minute ago, chrisw said:

Which is how many?

It varies on how much time I can afford to hunt.  Anywhere from 4 to 12 a year during the last decade.  (Not counting the one's I've hit with my truck)  I'm 64 now.  Time for you youngsters to do you share.

 

[Five Seasons]

Slight departure from the fun. I've literally been out once, but I enjoyed it and I'm going again. If you own a deer rifle you can get in entry level under $500, and that's if you want to go at night. If you want to hunt like the guys from NY downwindoutdoors (check out their youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/DownWindOutdoors), you just need your deer rifle and a mouth call.

Thanks to wnybuckhunter I got a great deal on a used primos alpha dogg, which retails for $230.

$230 caller, there are cheaper ones

https://www.amazon.com/Primos-Hunting-3756-Electronic-Predator/dp/B005A3FWNW/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=primos+alpha+dogg&qid=1580406914&sr=8-2

$80 gun light

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GB122TF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$35 headlamp

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NRJ938L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$30 decoy (not necessary)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WIU59M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$40 for rechargeable batteries and a charger

 

I encourage those who were hesitant to give it a shot. If you really love it, you can then look into thermal and night vision etc. But it is a good time and I'm not ashamed of hunting them. Thank you to moog, treeguy, wny and all the others who have pointed me in the right direction and got me off my ass and into this season.

 

[Rattler]

Just now, steve863 said:

You see, you are automatically making an assumption here that I am against controlling their numbers by simply saying that they deserve more respect than "rats".   You are being NO different than the flaming liberal who make automatic assumptions about hunters, guns owners, church goers, etc. without hearing the rest of their stories.

I'm not making any assumptions.  I pointing out what will be the case if predator control regarding yotes is banned.  I merely replied to your explanation of why you respect them.  I'm pointing out the flaw in near sighted views.

[Rattler]

3 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Only humans have spread over a larger area . I'm all for hunting or trapping but to label them as rats or down play how Intelligent they are is just ignorant. 

Rats are very intelligent.

[Rattler]

I don't know about other hunters, but I prefer to see a lot more deer and turkey around than yotes.  Hunting economies thrive when desirable game is abundant.  I don't think those economies would thrive if the yotes were the major animal to hunt.  Besides, by the time it reached that point, all the other game animals would be vastly depleted and the yotes would be moving on.

Deer and turkey hunters don't know how much they owe yote hunters.

Support the contests or you allow the anti's to win the animal rights war.  You won't like the lifestyle they will impose on you if they win.

Edited January 30, 2020 by Rattler

[left field]

Isn't there some evidence that the best control is a stable family population. They become self limiting and only grow to the size that the area and their traditional food source will support. And they keep other coyotes away. Disrupt that and the remaining will scatter, look for non-traditional food and establish new packs. 

There are even some pheasant hunters that favour having coyotes in the are as they kill the animals that prey on nests. https://pheasantsforever.org/BlogLanding/Blogs/Pheasants-Forever/Like-Pheasants-Thank-a-Coyote.aspx

 

[Jeremy K]

6 minutes ago, left field said:

Isn't there some evidence that the best control is a stable family population. They become self limiting and only grow to the size that the area and their traditional food source will support. And they keep other coyotes away. Disrupt that and the remaining will scatter, look for non-traditional food and establish new packs. 

There are even some pheasant hunters that favour having coyotes in the are as they kill the animals that prey on nests. https://pheasantsforever.org/BlogLanding/Blogs/Pheasants-Forever/Like-Pheasants-Thank-a-Coyote.aspx

 

One of the biggest reason wolves were so easy to maintain numbers is because they are so pack driven ,the scent from one could lure the entire pack back in. Like you said ,coyotes have no problem going out on their own when they sense the pressure.

[chrisw]

It varies on how much time I can afford to hunt.  Anywhere from 4 to 12 a year during the last decade.  (Not counting the one's I've hit with my truck)  I'm 64 now.  Time for you youngsters to do you share.
 

I too take every opportunity I get to kill a coyote but not being big into coyote hunting any longer they are more creatures of opportunity now. But what separates you and I is I enjoy sharing the woods with animals of all kinds. I enjoy being outsmarted, I enjoy having all of the technological advances stacked on my side and still being outsmarted by a "rat." I base my beliefs from people who are far more versed in actual science and studies rather than anecdotal evidence. I do not believe NY State has a coyote problem as a whole, I believe we have done coyotes an injustice by labeling them as the devil without understanding them. Coyotes are no more a bloodthirsty canine than your dog on the couch. I fully respect coyotes, they are pretty, elusive, highly intelligent, adaptable and great at living right under your nose with no evidence but howls and tracks. I find that most people that have such a dismay for anything is based on fear or lack of knowledge. I hope coyotes are never eradicated because I for one like those times when I'm walking out of the woods in the dark, and hear that eery, raucous noise and realize that I'm just another animal out doing what comes natural to me, hunting for survival. Perhaps you should take a step back and come at the species with an open mind and let science and studies form your "opinion" of these creatures a bit more than blind fear of them taking over the world...
Just a cool quote I'll leave here. "When his body is killed, he simply puts his life forces together again, and comes back to life. “Coyote cannot die”, say the native people. In more then one legend, it is prophesied that the coyote will be the last animal on Earth."

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

@Belo one thing I would share with someone that was against the coyote hunting or the contests (which take a very very small percentage of the take) is that when all efforts fail to control a population, mother nature will surely step in and there is little we can do as a 21st century hunters that are as cruel as mother nature. I can't imagine how lingering and painful a death by exposure would have been for this one while he was literally scratching his own fur off. 

[NFA-ADK]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

the science is a little mixed on that. Certainly it's mixed enough, that you can't definitively state that. While I agree that it helps, it's not as great a factor as you may think. At the end of the day, you should hunt them because you want to and it shouldn't matter. But one hunter should never tell another hunter how to feel (I know you're not doing this, but I want to restate it). 

True predator population control would come from trapping, not hunting and even trapping has shown to have little or no affect over a span of several years. 

Most of these below cite studies and the blogs/articles are a lot easier to digest then linking you to the study

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/game-changers/does-predator-control-really-work-science-behind-hunting-coyotes-and-other/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-killing-coyotes-doesn-rsquo-t-make-livestock-safer/

https://www.fieldandstream.com/predator-control-truth-about-coyotes-vs-deer/

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/predator-hunting/coyote/shooting-coyotes-save-deer-populations

To think that we are not capable of removing ANY normal predator is simply moronic.  We have decimated and even removed completely animals from areas when we wanted to and enough people where motivated to help out.  Coyotes are simply a small enough predator that most people are not bothered by them until the pets start to get removed. 

Yes A female will produce more at times when food is good and available but many thing factor into that.  If 30 females are removed from an area the 5 left will no way compensate for what the 35 total would reproduced.  The reduction in adult population would have a much greater affect on local animals than 5 litters of pups. 

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, Rattler said:

I don't know about other hunters, but I prefer to see a lot more deer and turkey around than yotes.  Hunting economies thrive when desirable game is abundant.  I don't think those economies would thrive if the yotes were the major animal to hunt.  Besides, by the time it reached that point, all the other game animals would be vastly depleted and the yotes would be moving on.

Deer and turkey hunters don't know how much they owe yote hunters.

Support the contests or you allow the anti's to win the animal rights war.  You won't like the lifestyle they will impose on you if they win.

 

1 hour ago, left field said:

Isn't there some evidence that the best control is a stable family population. They become self limiting and only grow to the size that the area and their traditional food source will support. And they keep other coyotes away. Disrupt that and the remaining will scatter, look for non-traditional food and establish new packs. 

There are even some pheasant hunters that favour having coyotes in the are as they kill the animals that prey on nests. https://pheasantsforever.org/BlogLanding/Blogs/Pheasants-Forever/Like-Pheasants-Thank-a-Coyote.aspx

 

it seems that a few in this thread have done zero research and some of the suspects I know don't believe in global warming and I presume also believe the earth is flat so I'm not sure why I bother. There is a real bad habbit that many hunters have (myself included) and that is to make assumptions off of your own back 40, or assumptions on how you think nature works. People dedicate their lives to these studies and some guy writes a few sentences and calls them fact based on a dozen sits in the deer woods. Best example of this is deer numbers. I haven't seen a deer on my 10 acres all year, numbers are way too low! robble  robble robble.

For the love of God at least educate yourself on some of these topics, isn't that what we ask the anti's to do?