How did coyotes get on Long Island?

[squirrelwhisperer]

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what kind of danger do yotes pose to ppl? I have never seen one. Not sure how big they are. I think they are somewhere between a fox and a wolf, is this correct? So here is the scenario...They become confirmed here on the island. I am walking thru the woods in the dark, let's say to my stand...how concerned should I be for my safety? Do I start carrying a pistol while bowhunting? I know that is against the rules but if it comes to self preservation.....

[Jeremy K]

7 minutes ago, squirrelwhisperer said:

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what kind of danger do yotes pose to ppl? I have never seen one. Not sure how big they are. I think they are somewhere between a fox and a wolf, is this correct? So here is the scenario...They become confirmed here on the island. I am walking thru the woods in the dark, let's say to my stand...how concerned should I be for my safety? Do I start carrying a pistol while bowhunting? I know that is against the rules but if it comes to self preservation.....

Depends who you ask ,I know a guy who was surrounded by coyotes in the woods at night after shooting a deer , I'm willing to bet the common denominator was the dead deer. Isn't one of the tricks the guys out west do to preserve the game they shot that has to sit at night is to throw their base layer over it so the coyotes stay away.

Edited February 3, 2020 by Jeremy K

[squirrelwhisperer]

Just now, Jeremy K said:

Depends who you ask ,I know people who have been surrounded by coyotes in the woods at night after shooting a deer , I'm willing to bet the common denominator is the dead deer. 

If they are confirmed here, I will be ready and more than willing to defend myself. Hopefully the ECO buys the "it was coming right for us" explanation. 

Not sure how you upstate fellas deal with this but it is a bit scary to think about. Kinda like swimming in the bay/near shore areas in June (wife makes fun of me because I won't go in past my ankles)...lots of sharks. So much so we target them from the beach with success. 

Great Gun Beach (Smith Point Park)...Brown shark...don't try to lip this fish!!! lol 

[Curmudgeon]

This is a really funny thread. The Flores book should be required reading before anyone is allowed to post on coyotes.

BTW - they are really terrifying. So much so that when they walk through the pastures, the sheep don't even get up. That actually happened. 43 years of keeping dumb, slow sheep and never a problem with coyotes. Domestic dogs on the other hand............. 

[NonTypical]

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/coyote-robert-moses-park-1.41309317?utm_source=fb_nd

An article in today’s paper confirmed that there is at least one on Fire Island. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by NonTypical

[Curmudgeon]

Why don't you guys start a Long Island chapter of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club?

[rachunter]

20 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Why don't you guys start a Long Island chapter of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club?

I just reread this thread and don't see where anyone said they hate coyote? I'll say this long Land and the 5 borough's is no place for yotes to be introduced by anyone for any reason.

[Rattler]

9 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

Why don't you guys start a Long Island chapter of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club?

Then they would constantly be battling with the Upstate NY Coyote Lovers Club.

Why don't you enlighten us as to what Dan Flores has to say about the Eastern Coyote in the Catskills, specifying where his research data was acquired?   I don't know about anyone else, but I couldn't care less about the western coyote.

[Rattler]

I happened to pull up and watch this video of Dan Flores lecturing at Brigham Young University to find out who he is.  What I see here is not a scientist, but a romanticist.  He has clearly studied the history of the coyote, but displays no science or biology credentials to support his views on the subject, even readily admitting he was inspired at 12 years old to defend yotes by Walt Disney and his "Coyote's Lament" short film.   I can't help but think he must have also been inspired by "Bambi" as well.  He wallows in the ancient deification of yotes by primitive people and modern day bohemians as if that was some sort of justification for loving them.  He even ventures into the realm of Wile E. Coyote, of road runner cartoons to further persuade us yotes are to be respected.

Apparently he is degreed in History, not science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Flores

He does a long winded dissertation on attempts to poison and trap yotes in the past.  However, not once did he address  any of the reasons coyote have been persecuted all these years, as if to say they are merely misunderstood creatures that are harmless.

I did not hear him say anything about Eastern Coyotes, touch upon how they are different, or what types of problems they cause.

He is right that the methods tried in the past have had no impact on lowering yote numbers, but he's promoting the fatalist view that we must simply accept them, and all the baggage they bring with them, and conform to a life yotes manipulate.  He seems to believe we should all allow nature to rule our lives without being able to control nature for our benefit.  Not having anything invested in any area that stands to lose money because of yotes, I can see how he might feel that way.  He is a die hard conservationist, which is to say preservationist.

It's an emotional appeal, not scientific data.

Watch for yourself:

 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Rattler

[Jeremy K]

10 hours ago, rachunter said:

I just reread this thread and don't see where anyone said they hate coyote? I'll say this long Land and the 5 borough's is no place for yotes to be introduced by anyone for any reason.

It might help the rat problem

[Jeremy K]

36 minutes ago, Rattler said:

I happened to pull up and watch this video of Dan Flores lecturing at Brigham Young University to find out who he is.  What I see here is not a scientist, but a romanticist.  He has clearly studied the history of the coyote, but displays no science or biology credentials to support his views on the subject, even readily admitting he was inspired at 12 years old to defend yotes by Walt Disney and his "Coyote's Lament" short film.   I can't help but think he must have also been inspired by "Bambi" as well.  He wallows in the ancient deification of yotes by primitive people and modern day bohemians as if that was some sort of justification for loving them.  He even ventures into the realm of Wile E. Coyote, of road runner cartoons to further persuade us yotes are to be respected.

Apparently he is degreed in History, not science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Flores

He does a long winded dissertation on attempts to poison and trap yotes in the past.  However, not once did he address  any of the reasons coyote have been persecuted all these years, as if to say they are merely misunderstood creatures that are harmless.

I did not hear him say anything about Eastern Coyotes, touch upon how they are different, or what types of problems they cause.

He is right that the methods tried in the past have had no impact on lowering yote numbers, but he's promoting the fatalist view that we must simply accept them, and all the baggage they bring with them, and conform to a life yotes manipulate.  He seems to believe we should all allow nature to rule our lives without being able to control nature for our benefit.  Not having anything invested in any area that stands to lose money because of yotes, I can see how he might feel that way.  He is a die hard conservationist, which is to say preservationist.

It's an emotional appeal, not scientific data.

Watch for yourself:

 

Ok, now you list your credentials on the subject

[Rattler]

24 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Ok, now you list your credentials on the subject

Master's in Business Administration and Management from U of MD and 20 years of field research with real life Eastern Coyote in their natural environment.

How about yours?

[diplomat019]

19 hours ago, squirrelwhisperer said:

At the risk of sounding ignorant, what kind of danger do yotes pose to ppl? I have never seen one. Not sure how big they are. I think they are somewhere between a fox and a wolf, is this correct? So here is the scenario...They become confirmed here on the island. I am walking thru the woods in the dark, let's say to my stand...how concerned should I be for my safety? Do I start carrying a pistol while bowhunting? I know that is against the rules but if it comes to self preservation.....

You need be very concerned.  At this point an attack is not if, but when.  I would stay armed at all times when in the wilderness of long island.  Pistol is a must. Maybe staying with a group walking to and from stands in a outward facing circle so all angles are covered.  Self preservation is first.  All else comes second.  

Edited February 4, 2020 by diplomat019

[Robhuntandfish]

isnt it obvious?.....

[Dr Juice]

isnt it obvious?.....

That must be one of those dependable ACME rockets

[rachunter]

1 hour ago, Jeremy K said:

It might help the rat problem

Plenty of food for them to eat.The problem will be when a yote snatches a lap dog in front of the family.There's a youtube video with a biologist explaining the deference between urban yotes and rural yotes .I'll post it if I can find it again it's very interesting 

[Robhuntandfish]

22 minutes ago, Dr Juice said:

That must be one of those dependable ACME rockets

one of them eventually worked.  It was manifest destiny! 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Why don't you guys start a Long Island chapter of the He-Man Coyote Haters Club?

Maybe when you start paying the taxes on people’s land the they bought for their hunting enjoyment. Not the Vermin’s!! You do know that some of us actually hunt right? You can enjoy feeding the puppies on your property to cause problems for other hunters in your area and some of us can enjoy blowing them same puppies sky high. It’s all good!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rattler]

The only threat yotes place on Long Island right now is deer predation.  I have heard stories Long Island has lots of deer and some big one's too.  It may not be long before that will become a fond memory if the yote population explodes like it did in my area of the Catskills.  What more do you need to be concerned?

[NonTypical]

5 minutes ago, rachunter said:

Plenty of food for them to eat.The problem will be when a yote snatches a lap dog in front of the family.There's a youtube video with a biologist explaining the deference between urban yotes and rural yotes .I'll post it if I can find it again it's very interesting 

And that is the reason that nobody including the DEC will ever admit to how they ended up on the eastern end of Long Island first. Usually when you have an expanding population, they will gradually extend their range from where it originated. In this case they ended up about 100 miles east of Manhattan and had to travel through the most populated parts of Long Island where there is probably more food than you would ever think. Just the feral cat colonies alone would be enough to feed the yotes for quite some time. I still think they were placed there. 

[NonTypical]

4 minutes ago, Rattler said:

The only threat yotes place on Long Island right now is deer predation.  I have heard stories Long Island has lots of deer and some big one's too.  

Fake news. All the bigs ones have been killed. 

[Rattler]

3 minutes ago, NonTypical said:

And that is the reason that nobody including the DEC will ever admit to how they ended up on the eastern end of Long Island first. Usually when you have an expanding population, they will gradually extend their range from where it originated. In this case they ended up about 100 miles east of Manhattan and had to travel through the most populated parts of Long Island where there is probably more food than you would ever think. Just the feral cat colonies alone would be enough to feed the yotes for quite some time. I still think they were placed there. 

I don't believe it was the DEC.  I suspect animal activists hoping to ruin hunting for deer by depleting the deer population with predators.  Got to be plenty of them animal lovers out in the Hamptons.

[NonTypical]

20 minutes ago, Rattler said:

I don't believe it was the DEC.  I suspect animal activists hoping to ruin hunting for deer by depleting the deer population with predators.  Got to be plenty of them animal lovers out in the Hamptons.

Either way, I believe they had help getting here. And I also believe with the amount of small game, rodents, roadkill, and feral/stray cats, live deer are probably only a very small part of their diet  If it was animal activists, then they truly are as stupid as they look. I wonder why when DEC acknowledged them in a letter written to the farmer who submitted pics a few years back, they said not to shoot them? They have no problem bringing in the USDA snipers to shoot the deer, but not the coyotes. They want them here. 

[left field]

41 minutes ago, NonTypical said:

And that is the reason that nobody including the DEC will ever admit to how they ended up on the eastern end of Long Island first. Usually when you have an expanding population, they will gradually extend their range from where it originated. In this case they ended up about 100 miles east of Manhattan and had to travel through the most populated parts of Long Island where there is probably more food than you would ever think. Just the feral cat colonies alone would be enough to feed the yotes for quite some time. I still think they were placed there. 

They couldn't afford the Hamptons so had to go to Montauk. 

 

[NonTypical]

I’ll be very curious as to what happens to the coyote that is on Fire Island at Robert Moses State Park. He’s going to be eating well with all the feral cat colonies over there. It’s going to be a while before he makes a dent in the large non hunt able deer population that exists there. I don’t think that the animal activists are going to be too happy about it overall. I’d be very surprised if DEC gets involved. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by NonTypical