So legalities......

[growalot]

Went to camp and kicked out a bear when I went to check my favorite stand.....he's much bigger than the last two years and been a bad boy for the gentlemen farmer down the road now has only 2 hives...down from 4 and a new electric fence around them...so I know a honey burn should work....but got to thinking...hunting by my self...... I gut my deer out in the field where shot....did so with the last doe I took at that stand....a tad scary in the dark....but gut piles never seem to bother the deer and I routinely hunt over them the next day...deer visit them often...

So here's the legal ?...if I shoot and gut a dee.... hunt that stand again and a bear comes by...is it illegal to shoot it?...even though a gut pile is just a part of hunting?

[G-Man]

If you know it is there its probably concidered baiting. Like a goose hunter hunting a field with spilled grain.... if you acted dumb probably nothing would be said. Since you posed here your screwed.........

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Thats easy...Shoot either before he gets to the pile or after he walks away. That way you wont be shootin a bear ON a bait pile!!! Leave the camera in the truck,Take the batteries out of the trail cam....Oh by the way...Congrats on a nice bear kill!!!

[growalot]

Thanks G-Man....just a thought that came to mind....in these temps ...If I were to score...It would be in a cooler and on it's way back home to be put in the frig...so I'd be safe ...hunt done ....during gun season when the guys are at camp....all deer are dragged back and gutted behind camp not in field....but I don't have the ATV's usually and when I do the deer has to be loaded on the rack ....I'm strong but not that strong ...thus field gutting

[BizCT]

you are baiting for coyotes, fox, bobcat, and a bear walked in....what a luck surprise, good luck!

[steve863]

This is one of those "would you shoot a few minutes before or after legal shooting hours" type questions. Most won't ever be brave enough to admit it, but there is little doubt in my mind that most hunters out there WOULD shoot if the animal they wanted happened to walk in. Law or no law, they will do it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

you are baiting for coyotes, fox, bobcat, and a bear walked in....what a luck surprise, good luck!

x2

[First-light]

No way and if a DEC officer gave you a fine I would fight it all the way. I talked to an officer once about bear hunting. My question to him was if a bear came by solo and I shot it but 5 minutes later here comes a cub could I get charged with a crime.(this actually happened but I did not shoot the sow) He said it would be very hard to make something like that stick. So hunting near a gut pile = baiting a bear, no way. Sometimes we think to much about these scenarios. I like eating apples on stand and throw the core to the ground am I baiting? lol

Edited October 12, 2011 by Burt

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Thanks G-Man....just a thought that came to mind....in these temps ...If I were to score...It would be in a cooler and on it's way back home to be put in the frig...so I'd be safe ...hunt done ....during gun season when the guys are at camp....all deer are dragged back and gutted behind camp not in field....but I don't have the ATV's usually and when I do the deer has to be loaded on the rack ....I'm strong but not that strong ...thus field gutting

I would rather make two drags with 200 pound deer than make one drag with a 200 pound bear. they are the toughest thing I have ever dragged. A big bad of jello...lol. they roll twist and just seem heavier. Good luck and since i wouldn't have placed the gut pile with the intention of feeding I would take the shot. I usually drag my deer about 100 yards away from stands just to keep the yotes away but I have used a stand that a hunting partner had gutted near and I didn't know it was there.

[Doc]

I would have to think that if you hunt over it, you are technically using it as a bait whether intentional or not. If you harvest a bear because of it, I would expect a CO to be enclined to call that hunting bear over bait, especially if it were shot while it was consuming the gut-pile. I think it would make a good question to ask the DEC people.

[KenAxe-7]

I personally feel that if your stand was there and the gut pile is a result of a hunt from such stand there is no problem. It's not like you intentionally put it there to bait a bear.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think it would make a good question to ask the DEC people.

I agree with that, probably the best bet.

[RangerClay]

I used to have ECO's come to my youth fishing camp to talk to the kids. One ECO told me that he hates to answer questions about whether this or that is legal. He told me that no two ECO's will enforce the law the same way.

So I guess it will be a coin toss about what the ECO might say. I doubt an ECO is going to ask to see your bear gut pile and where you shot it. In the end it comes down to your own ethics and what you are willing to do. If I was helping a farmer and a bee keeper who are suffering from bear damage this question would be a no-brainer.

Edited October 12, 2011 by RangerClay

[steve863]

I doubt an ECO is going to ask to see your bear gut pile and where you shot it.

Actually I have heard of them asking to go to the site of the bear kill. How often this happens? Who knows. I guess these days there are more bears shot and fewer officers around, so I guess they can't possibly ask to see the site very often. But in general I think they are more likely to want to see the site of a bear kill over a deer kill and the reasons probably have to do with baiting.

[Dom]

I personaly do not consider that baiting i allmost allways gut my deer within shooting distance of my stand if they think gut piles are used for baitng bears they are gonna have alot of trouble proving it gut piles are and is not baiting but it says we are to bag and take with us when cleanning any game so we may be wrong how many actualy take the guts no one i know of ever

[WNYBuckHunter]

but it says we are to bag and take with us when cleanning any game so we may be wrong how many actualy take the guts no one i know of ever

What says you are supposed to bag and take guts with you?

[Doc]

I suppose it all depends on the personality of the CO. If he's having a bad day, I think that shooting a bear that has been drawn to a stand via some food source (gut pile or whatever) has grounds for calling it baiting. As far as "intentions", that word doesn't really show up all that much in laws. However, if intentions were to be taken into consideration, it probably would not come down to the intentions of why the gut-pile is where it is. They might consider to be more important the intentions as to why you are hunting over the gut-pile and subsequently shot the bear. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that many COs would not even question the circumstances involved in the kill. It certainly doesn't show up during the harvest report .... lol. It probably wouldn't be a real good idea to volunteer that info to a CO.

[RifleSharpShot]

Depends on what dec rolls up on ya i guess im shure there are some that would say its not really your fault so on and so forth.But then theres others that won't take no for a answer and probly tell you that you shouldn't shoot the bear.But hey good luck anyway!

[Z-man]

It does not seem like shooting a bear where you field dressed a deer should be considered hunting over bait. But who knows. It could depend on the DEC officer

Zos41

[coyoteman]

No different if you came upon one eating a gut pile in the middle of the woods. I wouldn't mention that the guts were there. What is the difference if you sat next to a known berry patch or corn field?

[ncountry]

Along the same lines.... What happens when on the way to my favorite archery stand I "accidentally"bump into the apple tree at the base of my stand and some extra apple fall,

Am I baiting?

[growalot]

No for the apple tree is there and you didn't rake them into a pile per say...you can shake all your fruit and nut baring trees all you want ....as long as they stay where they landed

[ncountry]

I think the same could be argued for a gut pile too. As long as you leave it where it lays and don't drag it over to a more agreeable spot, it ought to be legal.

BUT, like others have said it all depends on the disposition of the officer on site.

[Pistol Pete]

man what bs

[Guides ForHire]

I think it is clear the gut pile is a " pre established bait pile" and you would be in violation hunting over it.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/bbfeedrule.pdf

"

The department acknowledges that the use of bait to hunt bears is an effective technique and, though presently unnecessary, may be of value to the department for black bear management at some point in the future. However, currently in New York, hunting black bear with the aid of a pre-established bait pile is expressly prohibited by New York State Environmental Conservation Law (ECL) 11-0901. "

Best to call the ECO as stated by others.