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5 minutes ago, Chef said:


I disagree it’s not disgusting it’s a point to be made... now you tell me how you put a rape clause into a abortion law that makes sense


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I didn't make any laws. I was telling you what my daughter believes.....She is pro life, unless you are raped.. Pretty sure a lot of people fall in that category. 

My opinion is, that it was already decided that abortion is legal. But taking it to the the point where you can practically abort when the babies head is sticking out is disgusting. 

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I didn't make any laws. I was telling you what my daughter believes.....She is pro life, unless you are raped.. Pretty sure a lot of people fall in that category. 
My opinion is, that it was already decided that abortion is legal. But taking it to the the point where you can practically abort when the babies head is sticking out is disgusting. 

I don’t disagree with that! I think the cut off should be around 28 weeks


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14 minutes ago, Chef said:


I disagree it’s not disgusting it’s a point to be made... now you tell me how you put a rape clause into a abortion law that makes sense


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The morning-after pill is a type of emergency birth control (contraception). Emergency contraception is used to prevent pregnancy for women who've had unprotected sex or whose birth control method has failed.  if someone is raped they can take action right away . its when the baby is formed that people have problem with it  .

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On 9/20/2020 at 9:39 AM, BowmanMike said:

Trump has done nothing to address climate change. Scrapped the clean air act,supports coal and oil. More of the same. The U.S. is the biggest polluter per capita in the world. It would behoove us to become a leader in alternative energy and set an example,then we would be in a position to address it in other countries. Trump withdrew from the world climate summits.

I am not a climate change denier I know that the chemicals put into the air can not be helpful like the smoke I put into my lungs can’t be helpful this is common sense. We as U.S citizens have a large carbon footprint as we all have one or more cars on average live outside citys or for this forum group travel outside the city’s to be sportsman. The technology we are using for alternative energy is bs solar panels and lithium batteries, are all made with rare earth minerals that are coming out of mines in China with no environmental restrictions, made in factories powered by coal and not recycled at end of life these are the issues. I believe we need to put are energy and money into r&d as we have no technology that makes sense financially or environmental at this time. Trump may not of addressed climate change but by bring jobs back to the U.S from China has, you know the factory jobs Obama and Biden said were never coming back. China manufacturing processes is a joke a solar panel manufactured  in China caused twice the pollution than one manufactured in Europe or the USA. Even without the clean air act we are pulluting less than China when manufacturing the same goods again not stating any pollution is good. Making aggrements with countries that are not manufacturing much and getting all the oil and gas from Russia is not helping climate change at all and I for one don’t want to live in a city like much of Europe does. Please also not the U.S is the largest food export in the world which also does not help per capita.

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18 minutes ago, phantom said:

The morning-after pill is a type of emergency birth control (contraception). Emergency contraception is used to prevent pregnancy for women who've had unprotected sex or whose birth control method has failed.  if someone is raped they can take action right away . its when the baby is formed that people have problem with it  .

Its only about 80 something percent effective and women are also not in the right frame of mind sometimes to remember to take it

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On 9/20/2020 at 7:09 AM, BowmanMike said:

And that is exactly why not much meaningful progress has been made. Everyone is concerned about their little day to day. If you think the word is still out on climate change I dont know how to have a discussion. 

Just jave a look around. The hottest years on the world have been all in the last ten years. The record breaking wildfires are a result of changing patterns. The hurricanes breaking records. If we wait to make meanigful change muchblonger it will be too late. Natures systems are very tolerant of being messed with up to a point,and almost all scientist agree that we are approaching the point of no return fast. 

Once things get really bad this pandemic will seem tame,my guess the next 20 years will be enough to proove that to everyone.

I dont understand why people are afraid to shift priorities,there are enormous economic possibilities in making the world sustainable. We have the knowledge but not the will. It's too bad,since the climate crisis will affect everyone,rich or poor,republican or democrat,white or brown. 

Thinking about this makes me happy i dont have children because they would be affected for so much more of their life than I will be. That is actually a big reason I dont have kids.

World population is another,which also is an enormous challenge in its own right.

Ok,one cant dwell on this or I would want to bury my head in the hot sand too,so i choose to focus on hunting!

I can't argue with you if you are on the climate change bandwagon. But the problem is that, like too many things in life, you can find anything that fits your agenda. And not just for climate change for anything. The forensic evidence in a trial for instance. Each side has a specialist that fits what they are trying to achieve. They can't both be right....

Just like in a trial, i can have a rebuttal. It doesn't mean i am right, it just means i can dispute things you present as facts.

There are lots of scientists the rebuke climate change. You just don't ever hear them on the news....IMO it is also why they changed Global warming to climate change, because the world stopped getting warmer....

It is false that the hottest years on the world have all been in the last 10 years. The earth was MUCH warmer long ago

The record breaking wildfires were set by man and are out of control because California refuses to do any forestation. All old growth forest and dry underneath with tons of tinder. If they did forestation, like most states, they would have a younger forest and it wouldn't be as dry which would limit wildfires. 

What hurricanes have broken records? Katrina cause the most damage ever.

Hurricane Allen had the highest wind ever at 190MPH in 1980

Hurricane Gilbert in 1988 hit 185MPH

Flordia Keys Hurricane in 1931 185 MPH

All the rest have been 175 MPH and less.....So record breaking damage...Yes...more people than ever live on coastlines with high property values and people packed in every square inch to look at the pretty ocean. ....Record breaking hurricanes.....no....

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14 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Its only about 80 something percent effective and women are also not in the right frame of mind sometimes to remember to take it

yea but still the point is if someone is going to do that they should do it asp not wait until it is almost a fully  formed baby  that is  what really freaks people out . 

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1 minute ago, phantom said:

yea but still the point is if someone is going to do that they should do it asp not wait until it is almost a fully  formed baby  that is  what really freaks people out . 

Neither of us have been in that situation so we don't know what goes through a womans mind. Its unfair imo to judge a women who is pregnant from rape on how she deals with the pregnancy 

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1 minute ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Neither of us have been in that situation so we don't know what goes through a womans mind. Its unfair imo to judge a women who is pregnant from rape on how she deals with the pregnancy 

still should be some limits NO ?   like the last months ?   

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climate changed can not be stopped unless country's  like china stop polluting .

so to mess up are economy first with out china stopping what they are doing  will only make things worse  .  

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56 minutes ago, phantom said:

still should be some limits NO ?   like the last months ?   

I dont like or agree with abortion at all, especially beyond a month or 2 ..

I Do 100% believe though , that it's up to the woman..whether I like it or not..

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1 hour ago, ApexerER said:

I can't argue with you if you are on the climate change bandwagon. But the problem is that, like too many things in life, you can find anything that fits your agenda. And not just for climate change for anything. The forensic evidence in a trial for instance. Each side has a specialist that fits what they are trying to achieve. They can't both be right....

Just like in a trial, i can have a rebuttal. It doesn't mean i am right, it just means i can dispute things you present as facts.

There are lots of scientists the rebuke climate change. You just don't ever hear them on the news....IMO it is also why they changed Global warming to climate change, because the world stopped getting warmer....

It is false that the hottest years on the world have all been in the last 10 years. The earth was MUCH warmer long ago

The record breaking wildfires were set by man and are out of control because California refuses to do any forestation. All old growth forest and dry underneath with tons of tinder. If they did forestation, like most states, they would have a younger forest and it wouldn't be as dry which would limit wildfires. 

What hurricanes have broken records? Katrina cause the most damage ever.

Hurricane Allen had the highest wind ever at 190MPH in 1980

Hurricane Gilbert in 1988 hit 185MPH

Flordia Keys Hurricane in 1931 185 MPH

All the rest have been 175 MPH and less.....So record breaking damage...Yes...more people than ever live on coastlines with high property values and people packed in every square inch to look at the pretty ocean. ....Record breaking hurricanes.....no....

No, there is a consensus among actual scientists that climate change is real and that the results will be perilous if we don’t act. Serious GOP leadership doesn’t dispute this either. It’s always the most ill informed who seem to be hellbent on denying the indisputable rather than actually putting a little bit of effort to learn real things. This notion that everything is arbitrary and has two equally well reasoned positions, each being identically plausible, is absurd. It’s gaslighting at best.  There is no debate about the reality of climate change. Rather, the conversation needs to be centered on how to proceed. If your position is that you don’t care because you’re shortsighted and lack the imagination to consider the outcome of inaction, that’s fine. State that position. Don’t deny it merely because it’s comforting or because you’re lazy. 

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47 minutes ago, ncountry said:

I dont like or agree with abortion at all, especially beyond a month or 2 ..

I Do 100% believe though , that it's up to the woman..whether I like it or not..

Good man. This shouldn’t be a controversial position today. 

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19 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

No, there is a consensus among actual scientists that climate change is real and that the results will be perilous if we don’t act. Serious GOP leadership doesn’t dispute this either. It’s always the most ill informed who seem to be hellbent on denying the indisputable rather than actually putting a little bit of effort to learn real things. This notion that everything is arbitrary and has two equally well reasoned positions, each being identically plausible, is absurd. It’s gaslighting at best.  There is no debate about the reality of climate change. Rather, the conversation needs to be centered on how to proceed. If your position is that you don’t care because you’re shortsighted and lack the imagination to consider the outcome of inaction, that’s fine. State that position. Don’t deny it merely because it’s comforting or because you’re lazy. 

Not lazy or denying it....Like i said before, there are arguments against everything. I can post 100 more articles. Someone is right and someone is wrong. Not saying i am right. I'm not even saying it isn't happening. I am just not at all alarmed by it. Especially to the point we are worrying about cow farts. Do i want cars running around with no emission controls and factories polluting and dumping however and where ever they want. No, and we have laws against that right now. Do i want every field i drive by that used to be pretty and green to be full of solar panels....I don't want that either. There has to be a happy medium and i think we are there. At least until other countries follow along so we are all on the same playing field. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong/#4992600212d6

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/09/nolte-scientists-prove-man-made-global-warming-is-a-hoax/

https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2019/07/90-scientists-global-warming-is-a-total-hoax/

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36 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

No, there is a consensus among actual scientists that climate change is real and that the results will be perilous if we don’t act. Serious GOP leadership doesn’t dispute this either. It’s always the most ill informed who seem to be hellbent on denying the indisputable rather than actually putting a little bit of effort to learn real things. This notion that everything is arbitrary and has two equally well reasoned positions, each being identically plausible, is absurd. It’s gaslighting at best.  There is no debate about the reality of climate change. Rather, the conversation needs to be centered on how to proceed. If your position is that you don’t care because you’re shortsighted and lack the imagination to consider the outcome of inaction, that’s fine. State that position. Don’t deny it merely because it’s comforting or because you’re lazy. 

good luck getting country's like     china to not pollute   and  how can you even trust them even if they  agree to something like that ? look at the lies  they said about the virus .

and that's if climate can actually be controlled  which I'm skeptical    just because we know its changing does not mean we can control it .

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7 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

Not lazy or denying it....Like i said before, there are arguments against everything. I can post 100 more articles. Someone is right and someone is wrong. Not saying i am right. I'm not even saying it isn't happening. I am just not at all alarmed by it. Especially to the point we are worrying about cow farts. Do i want cars running around with no emission controls and factories polluting and dumping however and where ever they want. No, and we have laws against that right now. Do i want every field i drive by that used to be pretty and green to be full of solar panels....I don't want that either. There has to be a happy medium and i think we are there. At least until other countries follow along so we are all on the same playing field. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/11/25/why-everything-they-say-about-climate-change-is-wrong/#4992600212d6

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/04/09/nolte-scientists-prove-man-made-global-warming-is-a-hoax/

https://www.afa.net/the-stand/culture/2019/07/90-scientists-global-warming-is-a-total-hoax/

My point was that you can’t just claim to be impartial because “there are arguments.” You need to explore the soundness of those arguments. There’s a market for writing controversial (and usually wrong) articles because of the clicks they draw. This doesn’t mean the arguments make sense. Climate change is one of the topics where there is a clear winner based on data and soundness of reasoning. I can’t think of any politicized topic where the starkness between correct and false is as clear as with climate change. 

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6 minutes ago, phantom said:

good luck getting country's like     china to not pollute   and  how can you even trust them even if they  agree to something like that ? look at the lies  they said about the virus .

and that's if climate can actually be controlled  which I'm skeptical    just because we know its changing does not mean we can control it .

Phantom, you’re almost starting to make sense! That’s a great starting point for the conversation. Given that we acknowledge that climate change is real and that changing course will be a monumental challenge, how do we proceed in generating incentives that promote clean energy, both here and abroad? Boy, that smells like a new thread to me. 

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35 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

My point was that you can’t just claim to be impartial because “there are arguments.” You need to explore the soundness of those arguments. There’s a market for writing controversial (and usually wrong) articles because of the clicks they draw. This doesn’t mean the arguments make sense. Climate change is one of the topics where there is a clear winner based on data and soundness of reasoning. I can’t think of any politicized topic where the starkness between correct and false is as clear as with climate change. 

But you are deciding the arguments against climate change are false. There are a lot of scientists that disagree with climate change. They post the studies and their reasons behind it. I'm not smart enough to know what is right and what is wrong. I am guessing it is somewhere in the middle. To me bottling cow farts isn't in the middle. I don't know what other word to use other than ridiculous.

Co2 levels were just as high as they are right now millions of years ago. That is a fact that can't be disputed. Man didn't cause that back then. The earth was warmer, millions of years ago. That is also a fact and man didn't cause that. It was also colder millions of years ago, also a fact. 

Every plant on the earth uses CO2 and emits oxygen. Co2 isn't some chemical spilling into a river. Not to be a wise @ss but maybe we should stop turning green fields into solar farms and plant some trees. Maybe the rising Co2 Levels have nothing to do with cars, coal, electricity, factories etc and more to do with the fact that we keep eating up green space, cutting down the rain forest etc(which isn't in our country so we can't stop it). I don't know and i am not smart enough to know. 

What i do know is even though you deny it, there are two sides to the the climate change argument. One is just much louder than the other because it fits their narrative....

The great thing is, this is America and we all get to decide what is important to us and what issues we support and are able to vote that way. 

 

Edited by ApexerER
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I voted for Trump based primarily on his anticipated SCOTUS appointment. Expected one, was hoping for two. Three is just to good to be true. We might actually end us with a SCOTUS that rules based on the Constitution and not legislating from the bench or pushing their personal views when Trump gets his next 4 years. 

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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin

"The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money." - Margaret Thatcher

"When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both.." - James Dale Davidson, National Taxpayers Union

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7 hours ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Phantom, you’re almost starting to make sense! That’s a great starting point for the conversation. Given that we acknowledge that climate change is real and that changing course will be a monumental challenge, how do we proceed in generating incentives that promote clean energy, both here and abroad? Boy, that smells like a new thread to me. 

why not gov around the world figure out how to carbon capture  I think would be a better way to go about it then trying stop people from  using cheap forms of energy I mean I'm for doing what we can do but you cant tank the economy  here while china  and others cheat    and  just  pollutes even more and more every year  .    Clean energy good but its got to be cheap and practical  to get everyone especially in poor country's  to use it  or it will be all for nothing  they will cheat if its not  that's the problem .  

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How many here drink soda , beer, seltzer do you know where then carbonation (co2) comes from oil refineries. So it not all bad we are already cracking a lot of these gas look how far semi tractor diesels have come with dpf and scr catalyst. 

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35 minutes ago, 9jNYstarkOH said:

How many here drink soda , beer, seltzer do you know where then carbonation (co2) comes from oil refineries. So it not all bad we are already cracking a lot of these gas look how far semi tractor diesels have come with dpf and scr catalyst. 

Several materials are products of oil refinery but that’s immaterial to the discussion.

Edited by Versatile_Hunter

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16 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Several materials are products of oil refinery. That point is immaterial to the discussion.

To you maybe as you are seem to be argumentative and not open for any discussion again you are a true leftist. what I am showing is with r&d into technology we have came a long way in carbon capturing and can go much further do I see this as something material to this discussion yes. also who are you to run this forum and state what is immaterial?answer nobody just like me so if you do not like what I said or can not understand it and it was not directed at you why would you not keep your fingers of the keyboard as it makes you look like a petty jackass. What do you know about diesel dpf and scr catalyst or any catalyst and air separation or the need of these gases in alternative energy products manufacturing as it seems to be very little.

Edited by 9jNYstarkOH

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