New York Crossbow Hunters..

[skyhunter]

I'm so on the fence with xbows. I support the benefits, but the detractors also concern me, namely the technology issue as mentioned (vertical archery going bye bye) and bow season impact if undertaken in current regs. References to Ohio are a good use as they have been around the longest. But, Ohio is also a one and done state. I think that difference is huge when trying to make an apples to apples comparison to NY, which is not a one and done state. Ohio also doesn't have the same hunter density/numbers.I'm not all up to date on PA, but is PA a one and done?

Not sure about "one and done" states but I question your concern for the dissapearence of vertical archery. I presently own a crossbow but only bought it to play with, and as a possible backup to a compound in the future. While injury and old age are things that some vertical bowhunters are concerned with, many of us haven't yet thought much about these things or reached the point in their lives where they can see physical inability as part of their future.

That being said if crossbows became legal in archery season here in NY, I would still be going afield with my Bowtech Invasion vertical bow while I'm stil able, and would only relegate myself to the crossbow if I were no longer able to pull my compound. I'm also sure there are many a NY bowhunter that shares my view on this and would choose the compoiund over the crossbow as long as they are able to.

Supermen out there; please look to the future as one day this will be in your best interest as well. In the mean time you could also help support the ability of seniors to get back in the game while they still have some time left.

Edited February 13, 2012 by skyhunter

[WNYBuckHunter]

NFA, I have a few questions about your reply. First, what makes you say someone with a crossbow is less experienced than you, or that they aren't or won't be safety concious? Just because they don't hunt the way you do? Second, what yore hunters are out there with blaze orange? Third, who are you to say that a crossbow hunter won't get a thrill out of taking a deer at close range, with archery equipment, just like you do?

Honestly, it sounds to me like you view anyone that doesn't hunt like you as being beneath you.

[phade]

Not sure about "one and done" states but I question your concern for the dissapearence of vertical archery. I presently own a crossbow but only bought it to play with, and as a possible backup to a compound in the future. While injury and old age are things that some vertical bowhunters are concerned with, many of us haven't yet thought much about these things or reached the point in their lives where they can see physical inability as part of their future.

That being said if crossbows became legal in archery season here in NY, I would still be going afield with my Bowtech Invasion vertical bow while I'm stil able, and would only relegate myself to the crossbow if I were no longer able to pull my compound. I'm also sure there are many a NY bowhunter that shares my view on this and would choose the compoiund over the crossbow as long as they are able to.

Supermen out there; please look to the future as one day this will be in your best interest as well. In the mean time you could also help support the ability of seniors to get back in the game while they still have some time left.

Visioning is not hard to do in this situation. Harrisburg's sport show this year was filled with more crossbow products and services than plain old archery. Crossbow presence has been building at that show for a few years and now it is clear that there are more crossbow products and services offered there than vertical bow. Heck, I think someone made a post in this thread or the xbow practice range where the person said he would drop using the bow in the field and use the xbow.

The industry has shown that they are focused on increasing speed and narrowing the width of crossbows (which is one of the hinderances of its use in stands). In a mere 2-3 years, the width of high hend crossbows have dropped considerably. That trend will continue...also, cocking a xbow is getting easier with the creation of the built in crank system that aligns it perfectly every time...(Ten Point)...as well as Parker's CO2 operated drawing system.

While these advances are great and I generally support them, these kinds of things start to point that most people will opt for the better implement if given a choice between two in the same season. Take, for example, late archery/mz. I bet a large percentage of those hunters are using mz instead of the bow. I align myself much more as a bowhunter than any of the other means; however, I'm just as big of a nut with the bang sticks as anyone...yet I take my mz out 9:1 for every time I tote the bow in late season. People are even taking their modern mz now in regular season because it has an advantage over modern shotgun technology. While you may still choose to take your bow out, you are more than likely in the minority of most hunters - which are casual hunters...not the die hards that typically hunt hard, take vaca time, and are are active members on forums debating such topics (pretty well for this thread might I add).

The impetus has also been seen in the compound revolution and its impact on traditional archery. Please understand that I am not anti-crossbow...I just think that the implications and trends lead to a clear vision of vertical archery being reduced to what traditional archery is now at best in 10-20 years with the integration of crossbows.

Past states have had xbow for a while, but that was also during a period of limited manufacturer support and relatively little pressure from state game departments/laws. The snowball effect of multiple states and intense manufacturing involvement just basically is a nail in the coffin for the future of vertical bows.

Edited February 14, 2012 by phade

[apoallo]

I have been hunting for a few years now shotgun rifle and my compund bow. Unfortunatly for me I also have eye problems which caused loss of sight Im only 27 yrs old. I have switched out the apature sight in my compound to the largest opening I could find but still no luck. I sold my compound and purchased a xbow looking fiorward to the upcoming season.I understand the concerns of vbow archers and cant say i agree nor disagree. Regular season opens and people flood the areas hunting mainly public land. Which would definately happen more if xbow goes into normal bow season.. I think this is more of a conern for the people who hunt NYS Public land. Private land owners have the control to regulate the amount of people that have access. There will be some New , inexperienced hunters with xbow but hopefully the Hunter safety programs that are in place will work. I feel NYS should require a xbow safety course instead of signing the paper and tearing it out of the regulations magazine. We all had to take a bow course and hunter course for shotgun, rifle and pistol so why not Xbow?

[apoallo]

I agree with the above post before my first one. If everyone remebers compund bows when first intriduced was in the catagory that xbows are in now. Eventually NY move the use of compund bow to bow season. After a few years it was forgotten and this is what is now concidered normal. I believe xbows will be moved into bow season eventually. Our neighbors (New Jersey) have already done this for xbow use during bow season

[fasteddie]

apoallo ---- am I reading you right , Your vision is too poor to shoot a Compound so you are shooting a cross-bow . Just asking for clarification .

[hunter49]

NFA, I have to agree with WNY's last post here . I have been hunting 48 yrs. and do feel I have enough experiance & shooting know how to use a x bow if I want. I have hunted with shotgun , recurve, compound bow, rifle, muzzleloader & now I think it would be nice to try a x bow just for something new & different. Also to the people who think the youth would be missing out on the old ways, how about requireing them to use a long bow or compound the first year of archery hunting & teaching them the in & outs of the bows. (see now the compound is the old way,who would have thought!) Seeing that the hunting age is lower now & they have plenty of time to learn & hunt. Just a thought. If I do get a x bow it would be nice to use it whenever I would like to no matter what the season.

[hunter49]

Fasteddie , I DO like your avatar, makes me laugh ! Our V.P. for sure.

[nyantler]

Any weapon for hunting is good by me.. I'm in..

[Slugger09]

If not in all seasons, I'd like to see xbows in the late muzzleloader/archery season

[apoallo]

fasteddie yes you are reading right. I lost just enough vision that it effects my vision thru the aperature. The light captured is not enough.to compensate for the vision loss. Prior to vision loss I was fine with it. I am not legally blind, just for those who might want to comment and question why am I shooting firearms. Scopes allow plenty of light in and I have a 3 dot reddot scope on the crossbow as well

[WNYBuckHunter]

If not in all seasons, I'd like to see xbows in the late muzzleloader/archery season

It already is

[SteveB]

Crossbows have been legal long enough in enough areas that those with safety concerns should have plenty of data available to support their positions. Please post it for all to see.

Thanks.

Edited February 14, 2012 by SteveB

[Slugger09]

It already is

Touche helps if I read

[WNYBuckHunter]

[growalot]

This thread has me checking out crossbows again...and what I'm reading here doesn't jive with what I'm reading and seeing on the net....like 100yrd shots from 12000.00 PSEs and wow quiet with a bunch of dampeners...50yrds accurate from 430.00 titans ...steady eddied for holding the weight...kids drawing 180#'s no problem with draw cables....bows that are only 13inches wide at the widest...not seeing where Vbows have an edge as some say...OTHER than if a shot is missed or bad a possible quick follow up can happen....SOMETIMES

Edited February 14, 2012 by growalot

[growalot]

Also got to thinking...are cross bows legal for turkey in NY...seeing they were allowed in gun during deer season?

[Skillet]

I'm all for it, the more of us out hunting, the better.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Grow, there is a minimum and maximum draw weight in NY, as there is a minimum width requirement, so all of those trick crossbows like the Horton Scorpion, etc are irrelevant here.

Also, its not easy or quick to draw them, so a second shot is pretty far fetched. A vertical bow is pretty simple to "reload". Quiet? Not near as quiet as a vertical bow with any amount of dampeners. Stand next to someone shooting one and youll see what I mean.

Oh, and no, they are currently only legal for deer.

[XCAL1]

As posted before, I used a crossbow this year during the gun season. My realistic range is 30 yards, I practised all summer and felt confident shooting a nice 10 point buck. The crossbow arrow trajectory is less than that a compound Vbow.....like throwing a rock. As far as requiring experience to use one like some else posted, I say yes, I spent most of the year on the Archery Talk forum and gained vast knowledge of xbows and their use in hunting and safe use. The experienced xbow hunters think shooting at a game animal over 40 yards is irresponsibal and uneithical. The xbow is a bow that doesn't require arm strength to hold back. And that's about all the difference. I also posted that I owned a camp in the Southern Tier. Probably, three people were afield during archery season in the surrounding woods. I had very poor success during this archery season. With all the gun hunters afield during the gun season my hunt was usually successful. The deer were few in that area because of nusance permits given to the farmers during May, the hunters took out three deer with one shot. ...The doe they shot and two fawns. If more deer were taken in that area there would be fewer farm permits and win win for hunters. Maybe there would be a few more people in the woods if crossbows were permited during archery season.

[landtracdeerhunter]

I wanted to take the crossbow out during muzzle loader last season. Just needed more confidence or something, never did use it. So much more different than a compound. Never had the same issues with that. More practice this year, hopefully heading afield with it. Maybe take a bow coarse over, to go through safety issues of it. Nothing like teaching from a good instructor, and hands on. Owe it to the deer.

Edited February 14, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[growalot]

Thanks WNYBH...for the answer....perhaps miss understood the second shot comment...I meant a VBow has the advantage on second possible shot...the noise part ...I was going on the sound from video demo of the new PSE...bunch of dampeners on that...Does the DEC have a list of specs that are allowed?...not that I need you to post...just steer me in right direction ...I don't get them (DEC) allowing X-bows for big game like deer during a gun season and not for turkey

[WNYBuckHunter]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28182.html

Crossbow - shall consist of a bow, string, and either recurve or compound limbs, having a minimum width of 17 inches (tip of limbs, uncocked), mounted on a stock. The stock shall have a trigger with a working safety that holds the string and limbs under tension until released. It shall have a minimum overall length from the butt of the stock to the front of the limbs of 24 inches and be able to launch a minimum 14 inch arrow/bolt, not including the legal arrowhead. It shall have a draw weight of 100 to 200 pounds.

[NFA-ADK]

NFA, I have a few questions about your reply. First, what makes you say someone with a crossbow is less experienced than you, or that they aren't or won't be safety concious? Just because they don't hunt the way you do? Second, what yore hunters are out there with blaze orange? Third, who are you to say that a crossbow hunter won't get a thrill out of taking a deer at close range, with archery equipment, just like you do?

Honestly, it sounds to me like you view anyone that doesn't hunt like you as being beneath you.

1) That referance is to new hunters going out and purchasing a crossbow for thier 1st weapon and hunting thier 1st year. May be you should reread my post... If you think they have more experiance and are safer than me OK... That was not a referance to experenced hunters at all... And has nothing to do with HOW I hunt.

"Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons." This was in the 2nd pharagraph...

2)I am sorry you have never seen a Yote hunter wearing BO, but some do... Might have been hunting for Bear I am not sure as I was trying to escape the area... DId not stop and ask as they were firing too many rounds and I had feared for my life...

3) Not sure where I said a cross bow hunter will not get enjoyment out of a close hunting encounter, could you point that out.

4) I am sorry you feel I THINK I am above anyone, I do not care how anyone hunts as long as it is legal, ethical, and safe, if that puts me above them in your oppinion so be it. Sorry you feel that way...

My point is this: Young kids are going to try the newest equipment. If cross bow's are allowed during bow season, IMO more kids or people with little hunting and woodsmanship skills will enter the woods with less help from experianced hunters due to the fact that less use a bow in general. If the seasons stayed the same people would be more inclined to try and use a bow for additional time in the woods.

5) How about if you have 3 or more years of experence hunting big game, then you are legally allowed to use a cross bow? (during bow season) THAT would make me feel much safer... And would make me all for Cross bows... JMO

Again this is not about allowing, that is all ready done, this is about safety.

PS: Who ever said I had taken a deer at close range with archery??? News to me... Do you have pics for me? I would love to have them... :-)

[XCAL1]

I am with you Chevy. I am sorry but I do not want cross bow's when I am out with a bow. IMO these hunters are the least experienced and the 1st to shoot which scares me... Due to lack of shooting knowledge which comes from practice, you do not need a lot of practice with a cross bow...

I have enough problems with Yote hunters and early bear season during bow now you want to add additional hunters into the same time frame, No. Sorry but I am against this... Makes me wonder why the DEC has 2 season with 2 different hunters using the same area. No so fun when I am encircled by Bear and Yote hunters in BO while I am in Camo with a bow, but yea let's get more hunters into the area at the same time. So much for thinking about safety. OK I am going home to get my flack jacket for the replies to this post... Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons. Bow's(traditional, recurve or compound) require a lot more practice and knowledge to get good at causing the hunter to become a better shooter and IMO a better hunter who will identify his target and place his shot making him a more effective and SAFER hunter.

If they keep it the same more will try shooting a bow to get extra time in the woods than would use a compound IMO. Otherwise the yutes will just use a cross bow and never experience the thrill, experience and knowledge of shooting a bow.

Shooting a compound I have learned:

1)How and where to place my shot: due to a better understanding of deer anatomy

2)trajectory and elevation and windage ajustments and calculations

3)extream knowlege of my weapon: not just that the trigger works and the arrow goes straight.

4)A deeper understanding of my prey. Hunting with a bow has allowed me to hone my skills due to the effectiveness of my weapons range.

I just feel going to the local store and buying a cross bow will elliminate much of what is learned by using a weapon that requires a lot of practice. And yes despite the fact that compounds are effective and do not require as much practice, you still have to practice a lot to be good at multiple shooting angles and feet position and elevation not to mention weathers affect on you arrow and bow.

So I vote NO due to safety concerns and the fact that many new hunters will miss out on a world of experiance with a normal bow, be it compound traditional or recurve...

To use a crossbow you have to have an archery licence. There are different safety issues, such as keeping your fingers away from the rail and to treat a crossbow as a loaded gun when cocked. And yes you do have to practice with the xbows, they drop faster than a compound verticle bow with the same speed rating. I respect your opinions but alot of people have varied ideas that xbows are the same as a gun to be picked up, shoot without practice and then put away until next season......wrong.