Crossbow Failed Again

[Five Seasons]

1 minute ago, G-Man said:

I've just watched a 49 year old pick up a bow and make 5 kill shots in his 1st 6 arrows.. release, peep,lighted pins , anchor point marker ( kisser button) 90% letoff .. really compounds are not hard at at all.  A recurve or stick bow I'll conceede...

but if your trying to say compounds are vastly different than a crossbow ........

Seasons don't bother me if they made spears legal I'd use one ,but to exclude a tool that kills the exact same way as any bow is not right.. the poor traditional archers used same.argument and lost and imo should be only ones to have their season contain the rut. As when bucks are rutting and are stupid its to easy and compounds and crossbows shouldn't be allowed..  if you want the pure effort that should belong solely to traditional archers only

Many of us have been archery hunting for a long time. If you've never been busted on the draw, or standing to get ready to draw than you're a liar (not you g-man, just a general statement). 

Compounds have come a long, long way. I'd argue they're still harder to pickup and become proficient with than a crossbow, particularly when not standing in shorts and t-shirt at an indoor range, but when drawing on a 130 class on a chilly November morning in full gear 25' in the air.

Some facts. 

Crossbows can be shot while seated. So can compounds, but the majority will shoot standing.

Crossbows do not require a draw. Drastically decreasing movement. 

Crossbows can be shot off a rest or mount. Generally speaking, compounds can not. 

Crossbows allow for magnified scopes, which increase range and aid in unobstructed shooting lane identification (the invisible twig factor).

A compound, even with a 90% letoff can not be held at full draw forever, while that buck decides to freeze behind the tree.

Generally speaking a crossbow has lot shorter learning curve to become proficient in the 30-60 yard ranges, which many compound hunters in the East do not even attempt a shot at.

 

To reiterate, yes compounds have come a long way. Yes my Mathews Traverse takes a lot to screw up, but that doesn't mean it's all of the sudden on the same level as the crossbow. 

[Buckmaster7600]

20 Yrs from now xbow technology will be where regulation keeps them. Draw Weight, width, etc. You could use the same argument on what advances we'll see in Verts in 20 years also. After all look what the last 20 has brought with Verts. Today with NYs regs the one advantage I see CBs having is not having to draw in the presence of game. That's about it. That can even be argued when someone is in an elevated blind where deer can't see you draw.

Yup, just like when muzzleloader was shoved down our throat as a short ranged weapon, remember scopes weren’t allowed then…

Verts have hit a wall, not much more they can do other than quieter and easier to shoot. Speeds haven’t increased in years, sights haven’t gotten better, rests haven’t changed, arrow technology changed in the last 20yrs making them lighter but now people are going back to heavier arrows anyways so that’s a wash.

Name one gain that has happened with very bows that have made them a quantifiably more lethal weapon in the last 20yrs? Now if you said 40yrs it’s a differ story but that solidifies my argument that vert bows have hit a wall.


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[Five Seasons]

14 minutes ago, Gobbler Chaser said:

Yea the CB vs VB war in NY has been a long bloody one that hurts everyone involved and causes division. Many in our ranks expect you to walk lock step on every single issue with them, and I you don't on one single issue your attacked, which pushes people away in general. But I agree, the CB vs VB issue is definitely in need of some comic relief

if yall are going to take offense to crossgun, there's no way in hell I'm accepting vertical bow

Edited September 8, 2021 by Belo

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Yup, just like when muzzleloader was shoved down our throat as a short ranged weapon, remember scopes weren’t allowed then…

Verts have hit a wall, not much more they can do other than quieter and easier to shoot. Speeds haven’t increased in years, sights haven’t gotten better, rests haven’t changed, arrow tech technology changed in the last 20yrs making them lighter but now people are going back to heavier arrows anyways so that’s a wash.

Name one gain that has happened with very bows that have made them a quantifiably more lethal weapon in the last 20yrs? Now if you said 40yrs it’s a differ story but that solidifies my argument that vert bows have hit a wall.


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prob one of the best things for bow hunting accuracy was the invention of the range finder.  Not a upgrade for the bow itself but def helped the bow hunters esp. 

[Buckmaster7600]

prob one of the best things for bow hunting accuracy was the invention of the range finder.  Not a upgrade for the bow itself but def helped the bow hunters esp. 

I’ve never used one for hunting but I can see where it’s a big advantage for bow hunting out west where longer shots are taken.


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[Robhuntandfish]

3 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I’ve never used one for hunting but I can see where it’s a big advantage for bow hunting out west where longer shots are taken.


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i use mine a lot but dont range the deer just trees or spots near the stand.  Always gives me a good base 

[G-Man]

I get a kick out of the compound users ,they will cite archers who continually shoot the newest fastest bows, arrows broadheads and will not budge on a crossbow even a recurve crossbow.. whom they surpass with their super light hi tech carbon fiber bow now with super light gathering fiber optic pin and self ranging site..   

For those that shoot traditional I feel for you the archers that consistently take gains bucks with antique equipment and tech are the real bowhunters . I love Barry Wensel..  modest traditional archer who consistently takes his deer At or under 15 yards..  unless your doing the same consistently to say something is easier or not a bow is self loathing.. and greedy imo.  A stick and a string is just that no matter if horizontal vertical, self drawn or auto cooked.  It kills by hemorrhaging period.   

But go out and buy the newest easier accessories for your compound and declare its so much harder than a crossbow is not solid on any level...   

90% of crossbow owners are compound archers as well ..  I use both and prefer my  v bow.. why???  it's easier to maneuver much lighter, easier to carry and way quieter..    

Inclusion is coming as as I feel for traditional archers  when compounds were allowed..  their mantra was just practice compounds are to easy is the exact same one compound users are trying now..    a sharp broadhead kills the same way...  

Why fight I'd rather see more hunters and more families in the woods together  from great grandpa that can't pull a bow anymore to the child who can't pull legal poundage yet at 12 years old..  we are only 3% of nys population and dwindling...

[Five Seasons]

15 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i use mine a lot but dont range the deer just trees or spots near the stand.  Always gives me a good base 

same, even stands i've hunted for 15 years. first few hunts i bring it with me and mentally mark tress. I have 2 pins and second is setup for 35. So I know what stump is my limit and what imaginary circle I can shoot a deer at and what's under 30 for the main pin.

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

I've just watched a 49 year old pick up a bow and make 5 kill shots in his 1st 6 arrows.. release, peep,lighted pins , anchor point marker ( kisser button) 90% letoff .. really compounds are not hard at at all.  A recurve or stick bow I'll conceede...

but if your trying to say compounds are vastly different than a crossbow ........

Seasons don't bother me if they made spears legal I'd use one ,but to exclude a tool that kills the exact same way as any bow is not right.. the poor traditional archers used same.argument and lost and imo should be only ones to have their season contain the rut. As when bucks are rutting and are stupid its to easy and compounds and crossbows shouldn't be allowed..  if you want the pure effort that should belong solely to traditional archers only

You've made this argument before and we dont agree on it. 

[G-Man]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You've made this argument before and we dont agree on it. 

That's the beauty of opinions you don't have to

[Robhuntandfish]

2 hours ago, G-Man said:

I've just watched a 49 year old pick up a bow and make 5 kill shots in his 1st 6 arrows.. release, peep,lighted pins , anchor point marker ( kisser button) 90% letoff .. really compounds are not hard at at all.  A recurve or stick bow I'll conceede...

but if your trying to say compounds are vastly different than a crossbow ........

Seasons don't bother me if they made spears legal I'd use one ,but to exclude a tool that kills the exact same way as any bow is not right.. the poor traditional archers used same.argument and lost and imo should be only ones to have their season contain the rut. As when bucks are rutting and are stupid its to easy and compounds and crossbows shouldn't be allowed..  if you want the pure effort that should belong solely to traditional archers only

Easy during the rut? Maybe on Gman property. Lol. 2019 I went 61 hunts and never filled a tag.  If it was easy everyone would do it. Honestly if it was that easy I probably wouldn't do it.  It's the challenge that I like.  Gotta look at it as most people don't have a private 500 acres. 

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

I get a kick out of the compound users ,they will cite archers who continually shoot the newest fastest bows, arrows broadheads and will not budge on a crossbow even a recurve crossbow.. whom they surpass with their super light hi tech carbon fiber bow now with super light gathering fiber optic pin and self ranging site..   

For those that shoot traditional I feel for you the archers that consistently take gains bucks with antique equipment and tech are the real bowhunters . I love Barry Wensel..  modest traditional archer who consistently takes his deer At or under 15 yards..  unless your doing the same consistently to say something is easier or not a bow is self loathing.. and greedy imo.  A stick and a string is just that no matter if horizontal vertical, self drawn or auto cooked.  It kills by hemorrhaging period.   

But go out and buy the newest easier accessories for your compound and declare its so much harder than a crossbow is not solid on any level...   

90% of crossbow owners are compound archers as well ..  I use both and prefer my  v bow.. why???  it's easier to maneuver much lighter, easier to carry and way quieter..    

Inclusion is coming as as I feel for traditional archers  when compounds were allowed..  their mantra was just practice compounds are to easy is the exact same one compound users are trying now..    a sharp broadhead kills the same way...  

Why fight I'd rather see more hunters and more families in the woods together  from great grandpa that can't pull a bow anymore to the child who can't pull legal poundage yet at 12 years old..  we are only 3% of nys population and dwindling...

You mean the one percent of people who still use traditional archery equipment ? 

[grampy]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

You mean the one percent of people who still use traditional archery equipment ? 

It's that one percent of traditional archers, who are the REAL bowhunters. Everyone else takes the "easy" route.

[Jeremy K]

21 minutes ago, grampy said:

It's that one percent of traditional archers, who are the REAL bowhunters. Everyone else takes the "easy" route.

Nobody was even shooting those things when I started hunting, for good reason.  You want model Ts to race nascar next?

[grampy]

10 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Nobody was even shooting those things when I started hunting, for good reason.  You want model Ts to race nascar next?

I started bowhunting with a traditional bow. Killed my first bow buck with that. Then I went the "easy" route, with a compound. Same exact argument that some like yourself are using against crossbows, is it not?

[Jeremy K]

11 minutes ago, grampy said:

I started bowhunting with a traditional bow. Killed my first bow buck with that. Then I went the "easy" route, with a compound. Same exact argument that some like yourself are using against crossbows, is it not?

Use them in gun season all you want , crossbows stay cocked all day long.

[grampy]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Use them in gun season all you want , crossbows stay cocked all day long.

So will my 270. Whatever is easiest right?

[Jeremy K]

46 minutes ago, grampy said:

So will my 270. Whatever is easiest right?

Might as well use the 270 in bow season then.

[grampy]

11 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Might as well use the 270 in bow season then.

No......that would only put your panties in a bunch even more than trying to hunt "your" season with my crossbow.

[Buckmaster7600]

I would be all for full inclusion as long as us trad guys got the woods to ourselves from the 10th of November until gun


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[DirtTime]

2 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I would be all for full inclusion as long as us trad guys got the woods to ourselves from the 10th of November until gun


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Don't you have the woods to yourself for the most part anyway? You hunt some remote areas of the ADK's, or at least that's how I have perceived your posts over the years.

[Buckmaster7600]

Don't you have the woods to yourself for the most part anyway? You hunt some remote areas of the ADK's, or at least that's how I have perceived your posts over the years.

By the dates I figured it was pretty obvious I was referring to SZ, the ADK’s is in the NZ.


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[DirtTime]

9 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

By the dates I figured it was pretty obvious I was referring to SZ, the ADK’s is in the NZ.


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OK.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 hours ago, Belo said:

 

Crossbows allow for magnified scopes, which increase range and aid in unobstructed shooting lane identification (the invisible twig factor).

 

I find the "invisible twig factor" is exaggerated by the magnification. With a scope you focus right through small objects like that. I've spent years using magnification optics for work and it amazes me how many things you can "look right through" with magnification. 

[Gobbler Chaser]

5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Yup, just like when muzzleloader was shoved down our throat as a short ranged weapon, remember scopes weren’t allowed then…

Verts have hit a wall, not much more they can do other than quieter and easier to shoot. Speeds haven’t increased in years, sights haven’t gotten better, rests haven’t changed, arrow technology changed in the last 20yrs making them lighter but now people are going back to heavier arrows anyways so that’s a wash.

Name one gain that has happened with very bows that have made them a quantifiably more lethal weapon in the last 20yrs? Now if you said 40yrs it’s a differ story but that solidifies my argument that vert bows have hit a wall.


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In the last 20 yrs there have certainly been advances in speed and letoff. Back in the late 90s  bows I owned were 50 60% letoff. Shooting 300fps was only accomplished with 70 lb bows shooting dangerously light arrows. I'm twenty yrs older at 65 and can hold my PSE compound longer than my Matthews Solo cam of early 2000s