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Age this buck by tooth wear

Enigma

By Enigma,
in Deer Hunting

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Enigma

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Ok experts! Age this buck from the pics provided. Curious as to what others here thought as to the possible age of this buck.

I know its not an exact science and no, I don't have the front teeth to send in for cementum analysis. All pics are of the same left side of the jaw at slightly different angles.

This is for entertainment purposes only lol. Post up your best guess and questions if you think you need more info. Thanks!

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Enigma

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1 hour ago, G-Man said:

2.5 dentine isn't wore past equal.part.of enamel 

Agree on your observation. I'm a novice at reading the tooth wear but thought easy 2.5yo maybe 3.5.

I thought 4.5 at first based on body size, the rack and previous bucks I've killed on that farm. But his teeth say younger to me. Idk lol.

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G-Man Veteran

G-Man

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1 hour ago, Enigma said:

Agree on your observation. I'm a novice at reading the tooth wear but thought easy 2.5yo maybe 3.5.

I thought 4.5 at first based on body size, the rack and previous bucks I've killed on that farm. But his teeth say younger to me. Idk lol.

Every area is different  sandy soil wears teeth quicker, but I am. Only confident to age by tooth to 3.5 after that it's kind of subjective imo. Can send them off for cementum analysis if suspect older.  Age and antler characteristics are a bell curve,I believe it was at top of curve 2.5  .

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wolc123 Grand Master

wolc123

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I am going to give you 3.5 on that one, also taking the 180 pounds and antlers into consideration.   I judge them on numerous factors, leaning heavily towards the skull size.  That works very well up to 3.5.  

Looking just at the teeth, I can see how folks could easily be fooled into 2.5.  I saved the lower jaw of one that I killed a few years ago, that was just 2 pounds heavier than that one on a "legal for trade" butchers scale (only deer that I have scaled in the last 34 years).   

I think many folks (especially on this site) put far too much emphasis on deer weight, using uncalibrated, rinky-dink, made in China spring scales.  Also, a deer weight varies a lot with time after the kill, and is typically about 75 percent water, which has zero nutritional value. 

 My 182 pounder was killed just after sunrise on opening day of SZ gun season, was hung gutted, hanging in the breeze all day, and was weighed 1.2 hours after sunset.  

A far more accurate measurement to use for estimating meat volume (the real important number for me since I always know how many quart-sized packs of boneless meat that I need and how much freezer space is available) is chest girth.  That is the circumference taken just behind the front legs,  asap after the deer gutted.

I have to personally thank G-man for turning me on to this method a few years ago.  It has helped me out a lot in simplifying my harvest decisions and managing my family's food supply.

Here is a close up of that lower jaw, supported by the 3.5 year old skull (3rd from top).  That buck had a 42" chest girth.  The 3.5 just below it measured 43", and produced several more quarts of meat.  The 3.5 above it had a smaller chest girth and produced about the same amount of meat (arrow kill so less shot damage to trim).

The ones on top and bottom are 2.5's, and the little skull plate is an Adirondack 1.5 (the rest are all from WNY zone 9F). For me, comparing the skull size is the easiest way to estimate the age.

 

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Edited by wolc123
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wolc123 Grand Master

wolc123

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8 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:


Thats what i was thinking too, 180 is a beast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You really need to look at all the available information.  Aging by tooth visual observation alone is a very inexact science that does not take into account what the deer has eaten.  That plays a big role in tooth wear.

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Enigma Proficient

Enigma

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Interesting comments. Thank you. Keep them coming if you wish!

I was gathering up some stuff the other day and ran across this deer's jaw and the euro I did on the skull. I always wondered about his age because he was a big deer from that particular farm. I had planned on sending in the front teeth to get an age but alas, some schmuck (me) lost his front teeth during the euro boil. I was distracted while cleaning up the skull lol.

Anyway, back in the day when NYS had the check stations I would skip school on opening day and hang out there watching the deer come in. I was fascinated by the DEC biologists aging and weighing the bucks that showed up. I just got to wondering what he might have been aged at if I'd of showed up with him in person at a check station like old times. 

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Lawdwaz Grand Master

Lawdwaz

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4 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I am going to give you 3.5 on that one, also taking the 180 pounds and antlers into consideration.   I judge them on numerous factors, leaning heavily towards the skull size.  That works very well up to 3.5.  HUH?

Looking just at the teeth, I can see how folks could easily be fooled into 2.5.  I saved the lower jaw of one that I killed a few years ago, that was just 2 pounds heavier than that one on a "legal for trade" butchers scale (only deer that I have scaled in the last 34 years).   

I think many folks (especially on this site) put far too much emphasis on deer weight, using uncalibrated, rinky-dink, made in China spring scales.  Also, a deer weight varies a lot with time after the kill, and is typically about 75 percent water, which has zero nutritional value.  A whitetail deer is 75% water??

 My 182 pounder was killed just after sunrise on opening day of SZ gun season, was hung gutted, hanging in the breeze all day, and was weighed 1.2 hours after sunset.  And you are surmising what from this? 

A far more accurate measurement to use for estimating meat volume (the real important number for me since I always know how many quart-sized packs of boneless meat that I need and how much freezer space is available) is chest girth.  That is the circumference taken just behind the front legs,  asap after the deer gutted. And your well touted Chest Girth Tape is about as accurate as a Chinese spring scale, no?  Is there a specific amount of  torque used in the application of this method or is it just a shot in the dark? (and yes, I've seen and used said devices, chalking them up to something sold at a backwoods carnival) :)

I have to personally thank G-man for turning me on to this method a few years ago.  It has helped me out a lot in simplifying my harvest decisions and managing my family's food supply. More specifically, how the heck does this help you after you've killed a deer?  After the deer is dead, the decisions are moot at best, yes?

Here is a close up of that lower jaw, supported by the 3.5 year old skull (3rd from top).  That buck had a 42" chest girth.  The 3.5 just below it measured 43", and produced several more quarts of meat.  The 3.5 above it had a smaller chest girth and produced about the same amount of meat (arrow kill so less shot damage to trim).  My brain is going to explode.

The ones on top and bottom are 2.5's, and the little skull plate is an Adirondack 1.5 (the rest are all from WNY zone 9F). For me, comparing the skull size is the easiest way to estimate the age. Have you sent your findings to the DEC yet? You might, or might not be onto something?

 

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If you'd like to continue this discussion, you're welcome to come by and handle a pile of skulls, jaws, sections of teeth and drink cold beer.  I'll fire up the bbq and we can grill some sausage.... :)

 

 

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wolc123 Grand Master

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1 hour ago, Lawdwaz said:

If you'd like to continue this discussion, you're welcome to come by and handle a pile of skulls, jaws, sections of teeth and drink cold beer.  I'll fire up the bbq and we can grill some sausage.... :)

 

 

Only if you can promise me that it will be a Genny product. 

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Lawdwaz Grand Master

Lawdwaz

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39 minutes ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

If the true weight is 180lbs dressed, it’s likely older than 2.5 but the jaw appears 2.5. Maybe eating a diet that’s easy on the teeth?


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Or just maybe its a healthy, low stressed 2.5 year old?

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Enigma Proficient

Enigma

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6 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

If the true weight is 180lbs dressed, it’s likely older than 2.5 but the jaw appears 2.5. Maybe eating a diet that’s easy on the teeth?

I stand correct on the weight. I checked notes and a pic and I'll revise to 176#. The scale was legit. 

4 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:


180 at 2.5 its a steady diet of Krispy Kremes

Or older but been drinking alfalfa smoothies all his life haha. 

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