Do we have a Moral obligation to get the vaccine ?

[Shoots100]

3 hours ago, steve863 said:

 

Yes, the insults will keep coming to a$$clown drama queens like you and Grouse.  Someone's got to tell you what you guys are since you don't realize it yourselves.

And if you think that the military won't stick into your a$$ whatever shot they damned well please, you know very little about being in the military.

 

 

 

Again with the insults.

It's getting old and quite boring.

I look forward to retorts with facts and maybe some sarcastic tones, but the drama seems to be coming from one source here.

My grandfathers fought for freedom, not for mandates, unless they mandated everyone a six pack every Friday after work.

Federal law's prohibit mandatory military vaccinations before full FDA approval and are designed to prevent the military from being used as a test bed for medical treatments before their use in the general population. 

You were saying something about knowing very little about the military ?

Even the polio vaccine was tested thoroughly for years before it was distributed to the masses and polio mostly effected children, so their was an extreme urgency to find a vaccine for it.

I wish we had the cooler heads that were in charge back then here now. 

 

 

 

[steve863]

27 minutes ago, Shoots100 said:

Again with the insults.

It's getting old and quite boring.

I look forward to retorts with facts and maybe some sarcastic tones, but the drama seems to be coming from one source here.

My grandfathers fought for freedom, not for mandates, unless they mandated everyone a six pack every Friday after work.

Federal law's prohibit mandatory military vaccinations before full FDA approval and are designed to prevent the military from being used as a test bed for medical treatments before their use in the general population. 

You were saying something about knowing very little about the military ?

Even the polio vaccine was tested thoroughly for years before it was distributed to the masses and polio mostly effected children, so their was an extreme urgency to find a vaccine for it.

I wish we had the cooler heads that were in charge back then here now. 

 

 

 

So, if we question anything you or Grouse post here we are immediately accused of being a leftisf/ Marxist and you think we shouldn't consider that an insult??  Talk about getting old.  He makes 100 posts to every one of mine and most anyone else about political BS.  You guys call me a leftist and I will call you a$$clown drama queens so take it or leave it. 

You can cut and paste anything you want about FDA approval being needed for military vaccinations.  Once you enlist or get drafted the military owns you.  If they can send you to the battlefield the can stick any damned needle they want into your butt.

[crappyice]

Steve , I may be persuaded that it is a moral obligation , but what worries me is the fact that it was rushed out so quickly , albeit out of necessity , of course . If there was solid proof that my not being vaccinated was a detriment to fellow citizens , I assure that I WOULD get the vaccine ASAP- but do you know that for a fact? I don’t think anyone does , that’s why I’m apprehensive . 

Pretty well said and calmly thought through. Please refrain from wasting that type of post here!


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[Northcountryman]

3 hours ago, Shoots100 said:

Federal law's prohibit mandatory military vaccinations before full FDA approval and are designed to prevent the military from being used as a test bed for medical treatments before their use in the general population. 

This is interesting - where did you get this info ? 

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, steve863 said:

What about the guys who saved the world during WWII?   Was it just personal choice or did they think it was their moral obligation to go fight the enemy and save the world?  Lots of them never came back home and knew the possibilities before they left.  The odds were a hell of a lot worse than getting stuck with a little needle like some of you clowns are bitching and moaning about here.  It was a liberal democrat who called those boys to war, too.  I can only imagine how you pansies would act if it were you who got called up.

It depends on how much you know about history and how you look at WWII.

Many of the men who fought in WWII were drafted.  They had no choice.  They did not care for, or trust, FDR.  The men who volunteered did so to fight fascism and tyranny, from both Germany and Japan. They felt they had a moral obligation to prevent totalitarian rule imposed against the will of the people.  They fought for freedom.  The men who fought in Korea fought Communism, which is total government control of your life, the antithesis of freedom.

I find it hard to believe these men would support the illegal mandates and lock downs America saw in 2020, or the way the government is trying to force a vaccine on it's citizens with penalties and fines.  Seems to me the people who are willing to die for their beliefs today are the one's who want to be free to live their lives as they choose.  I know a few WWII vets in their 90's and many Korean War vets too.  All of them reject the current government abuse they see happening because of this virus.

The people who accept unconstitutional government mandates are the compliant ones.  They accept the government demand to get the vaccine because they are the ones who fear dying.  Us "pansies" are the one's who have a moral obligation to stand for freedom and will be willing to fight tyranny and oppression again, even if it means fighting our own government.

[Grouse]

Edited August 8, 2021 by Grouse

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Northcountryman said:

This is interesting - where did you get this info ? 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/07/why-isnt-military-mandating-covid-vaccines/619554/

 

So far, the Pentagon hasn’t required service members to be vaccinated because the vaccines have been approved by the Food and Drug Administration only under an emergency-use authorization. Service men and women have to give their “informed consent” to receiving a medical intervention that has not yet received full approval. Removing that legal requirement would take a presidential waiver.

[G-Man]

Do you morally get a flushot every year?

  Can't see an emergency, lost its pandemic status last July and  hasn't gone back to levels that constitute  pandemic Acording to cdc and who.  

Saw this meme and it sums up the vaccine pretty well imo.

 

 

[G-Man]

Keep in mind the template for this vaccine was developed for sars over 10 years ago and it was Not Approved for use!!  But was forced thru as emergency use only... when someone can show me the emergency like 1 in 4 people you know dyingn ike 1918 flu then I can see it or even 1 in 20  heck even 1 in 100   of people you know and see every day.. that would be emergency... 

Edited August 8, 2021 by G-Man

[Shoots100]

8 hours ago, steve863 said:

So, if we question anything you or Grouse post here we are immediately accused of being a leftisf/ Marxist and you think we shouldn't consider that an insult??  Talk about getting old.  He makes 100 posts to every one of mine and most anyone else about political BS.  You guys call me a leftist and I will call you a$$clown drama queens so take it or leave it. 

You can cut and paste anything you want about FDA approval being needed for military vaccinations.  Once you enlist or get drafted the military owns you.  If they can send you to the battlefield the can stick any damned needle they want into your butt.

If someone post's replies that coincide with the liberal/ leftist diatribe, what would you call them, conservative ?

Are you playing devils advocate  Mr. Hannity ? 

Questioning without some type of verified facts/findings to back you, is you just stating your opinion.

Just like you your opinion on the military's vaccine regulations.

It's a federal law and no one is going to risk their military career getting shit canned because of the vaccine until it gets FDA approval.

 

 

 

 

[steve863]

Try Googling the anthrax vaccine during the Gulf War for an unapproved vaccine given to US troops. 

2/3 of the US military have already gotten the Covid vaccine so obviously they trust it more than many here and the US populace in general.

Edited August 8, 2021 by steve863

[Grouse]

It is estimated that 310,680 doses of the anthrax vaccine licensed by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) were distributed to the Gulf War theatre and that 150,000 U.S. troops received at least one anthrax vaccination (Christopher et al., 1997; Committee on Veterans' Affairs, 1998).

The anthrax vaccine was first produced on a large scale in the United States by Merck, Sharp, and Dohme in the 1950s for Fort Detrick (GAO, 1999c). Production was turned over to the Michigan Department of Public Health (MDPH) in the 1960s, and some changes were made in the manufacturing process; a different strain of anthrax was used in the MDPH vaccine, and the yield of protective antigen was increased (GAO, 1999c). In 1966, the Investigational New Drug (IND) application was submitted to the Division of Biologic Standards (DBS), formerly in the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Product licensure for Anthrax Vaccine Adsorbed was granted on November 10, 1970. The safety study of the anthrax vaccine submitted to the DBS contained information on the administration of approximately 16,000 doses. In 1985, an FDA advisory panel reviewing the status of bacterial vaccines and toxoids categorized the anthrax vaccine in Category 1 (safe, effective, and not misbranded) (FDA, 1985).

In December 1997, the Secretary of Defense announced that all U.S. military forces would receive anthrax vaccinations for protection against the threat of biological warfare. The Anthrax Vaccine Immunization Program (AVIP) began vaccinations in March 1998; the first personnel vaccinated were members of units deployed or scheduled to deploy to high-threat areas (Claypool, 1999).

It is estimated that 68,000 doses of the U.S. anthrax vaccine were distributed from 1974 to 1989; 268,000 doses in 1990; and 1.2 million doses from 1991 to July 1999 (Ellenberg, 1999). The exact number of people who received the vaccine is not known.

Scores of troops refused to take that vaccine. Some left the service. Others were disciplined. Some were court martialed and kicked out of the military with other-than-honorable discharges.

In 2003, a federal judge agreed with service members who filed a lawsuit asserting the military could not administer a vaccine that had not been fully licensed without their consent, and stopped the program.

The Pentagon started it back up in 2004 after the FDA issued an approval, but the judge stopped it again after ruling the FDA had not followed procedures.

Eventually the FDA issued proper approvals for the vaccine, and the program was reinstated on a limited basis for troops in high-risk locations.

Military experts say the legal battles over the anthrax vaccine could be why the Biden administration has been treading cautiously. Until now, the government has relied on encouraging troops rather than mandating the shots. Yet coronavirus cases in the military, like elsewhere, have been rising with the more contagious delta variant.

If the military makes the vaccine mandatory, most service members will have to get the shots unless they can argue to be among the few given an exemption for religious, health or other reasons.

According to the Pentagon, more than 1 million service members are fully vaccinated, and more than 237,000 have gotten at least one shot. There are roughly 2 million active-duty, Guard and Reserve troops.

https://abc7chicago.com/military-vaccine-mandate-covid-vaccines-for-troops-unvaccinated-mandatory-us/10934497/

Edited August 8, 2021 by Grouse

[G-Man]

[Northcountryman]

I had a debate last night with a woman   Who’s left leaning , Trump hater , etc. and also VERY much a pro Do what the government mandates vaxxer. She was respectful and polite for the most part , but there were times where I could detect her contempt and revulsion for “ people like me who haven’t been vaccinated  yet”. Basically , her argument is that we ( the unvaxxed) are the ones fueling the current surge in hospitalizations and perpetuating the spread of the virus; further , she contends that the virus would fall flat in its face now if only the rest of us would go get it . She supports mandates to compel vaccination in all citizens and believes that if you don’t get vaxxed and get sick , then you shouldn’t get treated at a hospital because it’s punishing her and the “vaxxed” crowd because it increases their health care costs- I was absolutely mortified . I said to her “ well, if we take your logic one step further , then what about obese people ; should we not treat them if they suffer a heart attack because of their life choices ? Should we make them pay full price for their bp meds to force them to “ wake up” and stop impacting us economically?  Some people are just SO EXTREME in their thinking - unreal .  

[Grouse]

I wonder if she supports "My body, my choice" and government paying for abortions?

[Shoots100]

This man manipulated virus is already on it's 4 or 4 delta+ or 5th strain now.

The vaccines that were initially created, were meant to work on the 1st strain and they have no clue if they'll work on any other strain without testing, which is why they want people to get the vaccine, free testing.

If it doesn't work, oh well, lets mandate another dose and see what happens.

If it does, that's great, but we want you to get a booster shot, just in case.

The common cold has been around for centuries, without a cure, because it has mutated to over 150 strains.

Same as the Flu virus.

Flu vaccines are only 50% effective at best.

Does a virus mutate to counteract a vaccine, natural antibodies of previously effected hosts or because it somehow knows the previous strain isn't killing hosts anymore ? 

 

 

[Just Lucky]

I didnt know we had a vaccine yet. When is it being released?

[Grouse]

[Lucky118]

Got mine. Greatest president in the history of the United states of America made sure it got done. So like my drill Instructor  said in basic" Don't  be a twat get in line and get your shot maggots" 

[Northcountryman]

As Ive said before, I could be persuaded to get it- just saw on FOX that 3 first responders died , all unvaxxed.  I DO believe that with delta, you can still get -and transmit- COVID if vaxxed, but you also (likely) will not have as severe an outcome of the disease as those who are unvaxxed.  For me, its been a cost-benefit analysis ever since I first got COVID myself back in Feb. After I fully recovered, I felt good and figured I was covered in terms of immunity- at least for awhile.  Now, with the devpt of delta and the likelihood of other variants developing, that may not be the case. Im 53 right now, am very healthy , and have some immunity due to my previous bout w/ COVID- should I get the vax? Right not, my answer is no as I feel that I'm likely to fight off the virus if contracted again- is that a guarantee? Of course not; life is fraught with risks that are associated with countless choices we must make. This is but another example of that. On the other hand, If I were 75 and had more health issues, I would already be vaxxed; no question about it, as my chance of having a more severe outcome if contracting the virus would be much greater- far greater than it is currently- and would far outweigh any concerns I may have with long term side effects from getting the vaxx. 

[Shoots100]

I'm in the same boat as you. 

Middle aged, survived covid.

I work in hospitals though, so my contact with covid is at a much higher risk.

I don't get flu shots or any other shot but tetanus every 3 years.

There are some instances that I'll jump before getting the whole picture, but when it has to do with something being injected into my body, I'm not so brash.

The initial vaccine was developed to fight the C19 1st variant.

It's already mutated to the 4th + delta strain now, So will the original vaccine fight this latest strain too ?

So far no one has any definite answers for this question and that makes me even more hesitant to get inoculated.

In the meantime, I wear a mask and I've stocked up on meds that'll help me fight Covid, if I get it again.

 

 

 

[Grouse]

One way in which the CDC's unscientific approach is currently on display is its refusal to acknowledge that recovering from covid confers immunity to the disease, to the same extent, and probably more, than being vaccinated. This stands to reason, since the whole point of vaccination is to mimic the effect — production of antibodies — of having a disease.

[Doc]

So far, I have not found a reason to resist taking the Trump vaccine. I do remember that when I was a little tyke, there was a whole list of vaccinations that were mandated in order for me to enter public schools. The same thing was required when I enrolled my two boys in the public school system years ago. I don't recall any moral or political issues being involved then, and I also had no problem with an injection of the Trump vaccine. I got it for my own well being so that being an old fart, I felt I was lessening a threat to my life. 

I do wear seatbelts too. It began to satisfy a law, but today it just plain feels weird to be going down the road without being buckled up. After reasonable logic, it seemed that it is the smart thing to do, and no particular sane reasons not to. This vaccine falls into the same category. It is not a nice situation that such things have become a mandate mandated, but to me it just plain makes sense to get it. 

Is it really a moral dilemma? It wasn't for me, but I do understand that there are people who do not want to be forced by government to put a material into their body. I have not yet become quite that paranoid yet. But I will not belittle those that have these kinds of concerns even though I cannot understand the resistance. 

[diplomat019]

The Trump vaccine has saved countless amount of lives.  @DocIm going to start calling it the Trump vaccine as well.  Well said!

 

if it wasn't for DT putting restrictions in place as early as he did with travel, as well as getting the Trump Vax out as soon as he did, who knows what would have happened.  Thank goodness the other side of the aisle wasn’t  in charge cause we would have been in a whole worse situation.  
 

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by diplomat019

[Northcountryman]

16 minutes ago, Doc said:

Is it really a moral dilemma? It wasn't for me, but I do understand that there are people who do not want to be forced by government to put a material into their body. I have not yet become quite that paranoid yet. But I will not belittle those that have these kinds of concerns even though I cannot understand the resistance

Paranoid? Dunno if id frame it that way- more like apprehensive about taking it now due to lack of comprehensive study into  potential longterm side effects associated with its use.  Are there any ? Perhaps not, but that remains to be seen!!