What happened to Turkeys

[Lucky118]

All it takes is a couple of bad winters and deep snow and a couple of wet springs and the populations suffer. Been about 10 yrs here with low populations. But this spring i saw 3 different flocks of 20 or more birds and lots of babys so maybe it will pick back up. 

[Grouse]

5 to 10 years ago I used to see large flocks in the woods by me every day.  Now I don't see any.  I didn't even hear any gobblers in my area all spring.  I saw about 3 turkey in the spring.  Used to me hundreds of them.  How can such a drastic reduction in turkey not be something the DEC is alarmed about?  All they did was cut the fall season and it's limit.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Grouse

[WNYTRPR]

21 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Doesn't the state regulate legal leghold traps to just the small ones?  I don't trap, but know people who quit while complaining about the reg changes years ago.

Legal is 5 3/4 “Jaw spread or under .plenty for fox and coyote .would bigger be better ?maybe for coyotes ,but guys get the job done and have for years with what we have .Could be like many states that have banned foot holds .Just got to keep adapting to what you could use and perfect it .Not complain .

[crappyice]

I had about a dozen turkeys roost above me at about 9:30 this morning. With the amount of racket they made crashing into trees, my theory is they decimate their own population by reckless flying!!!!


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[Pygmy]

Bill killed all of the hens in the fall season...

[DirtTime]

My wife had a flock behind her on this mornings hunt. They have been back in that area for a few years now. They roost right behind the camp my buddy and I have.

[Gobbler Chaser]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

They could have left the trappers alone and not implemented all sorts of feel good animal rights trapping methods, removing the old school methods that were effective and easy to use.  Without trappers keeping the predators in check, turkey are disappearing.  It's the DEC's job to know when something like this is happening and stop it.  They didn't.

Last of the trappers disappeared long ago around this part of Ulster county. I honestly don't know any locals in my area that trap. Coon, fox and yote numbers are the same here as they've been for a long time without trappers and we've had awesome turkey seasons just 4 years ago and haven't had anything in a real trapper population since the 1970s. 

[Trial153]

Too much hunting pressure on a limited resource with an increase in efficacy of the hunters. You will see the same thing with deer, cross-guns that 8 years olds can kill with in 15 minutes of picking them
up , 200 yard muzzle loaders and rifles in every county. Won’t be long till your drawing tags like out west.
Hunters made their bed, and now they can sleep
in it

[Gobbler Chaser]

All I can say for you guys who still have a good bird population in your area is enjoy it. Never thought I would see the numbers of birds we had around here disappear to the almost zero numbers we have today. It's a precious resource and once it's gone you really miss it. My last two spring seasons I'd have felt guilty taking a gobbler. And from the lack of turkey flocks I've seen this bow season I'm not expecting much this coming spring

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Too much hunting pressure on a limited resource with an increase in efficacy of the hunters. You will see the same thing with deer, cross-guns that 8 years olds can kill with in 15 minutes of picking them
up , 200 yard muzzle loaders and rifles in every county. Won’t be long till your drawing tags like out west.
Hunters made their bed, and now they can sleep
in it

But if there are far fewer hunters today than there was decades ago, how is there more hunting pressure?  And if the resource is limited, isn't it the DEC's job to protect it from too much hunting pressure?  The state gets harvest reports on deer and turkey, so it's not a case of the DEC not knowing what the harvest numbers are.  Should hunters be blamed for being better at hunting than they used to be, or should the DEC take responsibility for improper management of the resource?

 

[Gobbler Chaser]

38 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

There are Far more Hunters taking up Spring Turkey Hunting every year.

 Let's face it-- it is exciting and no Deer Hunting is going on. 

  And most importantly- nearly all New Turkey Hunters will have a Mentor- saving them years of Frustration. Very Few are Self Taught like myself.

TSS Ammo and taking 60 yard+ Shots. Ever increasing  Trail Cams on Public Dirt. Why Roost a Gobbler when you can get updates on your Smartphone. " Reaping" and crawling out behind a Gobbler Fan. Super expensive Gobbler Decoys. 

   Taking over the Spring Gobbler Limit of 2 NY Birds. This is not talked about- but think about this- if a excited Young Man of 18 takes his 2 Gobblers on May 1st and May 2nd-- do you really think he will hang up his Shotgun until the following May?  

  Poachers and Poaching Familys that stay completely  off all Social Media. Tuning in regularly  as Guests only.

   And add to the above very experienced Spring Turkey Hunters in NY.  

Yea I know we have poaching going on around here.

[Gobbler Chaser]

9 hours ago, Trial153 said:

Too much hunting pressure on a limited resource with an increase in efficacy of the hunters. You will see the same thing with deer, cross-guns that 8 years olds can kill with in 15 minutes of picking them
up , 200 yard muzzle loaders and rifles in every county. Won’t be long till your drawing tags like out west.
Hunters made their bed, and now they can sleep
in it

There you go, throw the crossbow division into the conversation. I have yet to see anyone hunting turkey with a crossbow. And I'm not too sure about seeing the same thing with deer numbers. NYs deer population has been growing if anything.

[Trial153]

There you go, throw the crossbow division into the conversation. I have yet to see anyone hunting turkey with a crossbow. And I'm not too sure about seeing the same thing with deer numbers. NYs deer population has been growing if anything.

Bury your head where the sun doesn’t shine all you want, however cross guns are a perfect example of an increase in hunter efficacy, along with the other examples that I and others have mentioned above.
Increase efficacy and participation while trying maintaining the resource and you have to find balance someplace. The only place is limiting opportunities or allowing the resource to decrease and decline.
That’s exactly what we seen with NYs true key population and in other states turkey’s populations. Unfortunately we are as always behind the curve.

[Grouse]

In my area I have not seen any large increase in turkey hunters in the spring or fall.  I certainly haven't heard a lot more shooting.  I don't think a lot of turkey hunters have switched to archery equipment of any sort and haven't heard of anyone around here doing a lot of poaching.  Yet the turkey population here seems to cut itself in half every year.  Now, the numbers are so low, it's rare to even see a few.

Something is taking them down, and it's not hunters.

[mowin]

Zero trapping on the lands I hunt, and all of the surrounding properties. Lots of yotes, coon, fishers, hawks, few eagles.  

Tons of turkeys.  

Yes there was a few years in a row when we had horrible spring weather and most of the clutches of eggs didn't hatch. And if someone did, they didn't make it due to the cold and wet weather. 

Easy to blame the predators, but weather alone has more to do with it then predators. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

Outdoor cats.

[DirtTime]

Aside from seeing and hearing turkeys by our camp, that were never there in the past 8 years I've been camping and hunting up there I have seen turkeys popping up in a few other places they never used to be, while areas that had birds seem to be quiet.

4 miles down the road from me there was a flock with poults that showed up late last Spring and are still hanging out in that field.

 

Everyone is so fast to jump on predation and all of a sudden poaching, but another problem is often over looked. Development. Around here condo developments are popping up all over the place. The flock I mentioned above was probably having a great time hanging out a few miles away then all of a sudden that land is no longer woods. They have to go somewhere. I don't see the turkey population suddenly boosting the economy and getting jobs to buy a condo to stay where they were. They are going to move to areas where they feel safer.

 

I'm not saying predators aren't hurting numbers, it would be insane to think that way. I just wonder how many people who say turkey numbers are dropping live in the burbs next to large cities that are getting larger, or where housing developments and strip malls are going up in record fashion these days.

[mowin]

6 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

Outdoor cats.

Lol. Assuming you mean house cats, How many cats do you see in the woods while you're hunting? 

[Versatile_Hunter]

4 minutes ago, DirtTime said:

Aside from seeing and hearing turkeys by our camp, that were never there in the past 8 years I've been camping and hunting up there I have seen turkeys popping up in a few other places they never used to be, while areas that had birds seem to be quiet.

4 miles down the road from me there was a flock with poults that showed up late last Spring and are still hanging out in that field.

 

Everyone is so fast to jump on predation and all of a sudden poaching, but another problem is often over looked. Development. Around here condo developments are popping up all over the place. The flock I mentioned above was probably having a great time hanging out a few miles away then all of a sudden that land is no longer woods. They have to go somewhere. I don't see the turkey population suddenly boosting the economy and getting jobs to buy a condo to stay where they were. They are going to move to areas where they feel safer.

 

I'm not saying predators aren't hurting numbers, it would be insane to think that way. I just wonder how many people who say turkey numbers are dropping live in the burbs next to large cities that are getting larger, or where housing developments and strip malls are going up in record fashion these days.

Yes, habitat remains the #1 issue across the board. Give them land (managed for young forests for feed, nesting) and they'll be robust to the challenges you mention. 'Till then, ban outdoor cats... and sure, restrict crossbows for the incapacitated.

[Versatile_Hunter]

5 minutes ago, mowin said:

Lol. Assuming you mean house cats, How many cats do you see in the woods while you're hunting? 

This one ain't eating Eukanuba

But yeah, I do see them in the CATskills near where I hunt. They are an actual problem: https://abcbirds.org/article/outdoor-cats-single-greatest-source-of-human-caused-mortality-for-birds-and-mammals-says-new-study/

[crappyice]

Lol. Assuming you mean house cats, How many cats do you see in the woods while you're hunting? 

Haha…I hunt a “postage stamp” in suburbia and see two different cats almost every hunt….and the property is over run with Turkey


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[mowin]

9 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

This one ain't eating Eukanuba

But yeah, I do see them in the CATskills near where I hunt. They are an actual problem: https://abcbirds.org/article/outdoor-cats-single-greatest-source-of-human-caused-mortality-for-birds-and-mammals-says-new-study/

A bobcat isn't what I think of when someone says " outdoor cats" lol. 

[Versatile_Hunter]

5 minutes ago, mowin said:

A bobcat isn't what I think of when someone says " outdoor cats" lol. 

I thought the wink would keep you from being thrown off... I guess technically an outdoor cat but yes not what we were discussing. Cool pic though!

[Versatile_Hunter]

19 minutes ago, crappyice said:

Haha…I hunt a “postage stamp” in suburbia and see two different cats almost every hunt….and the property is over run with Turkey


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Think about how many more cats there could be be if we got rid of the turkeys....

[mowin]

11 minutes ago, Versatile_Hunter said:

I thought the wink would keep you from being thrown off... I guess technically an outdoor cat but yes not what we were discussing. Cool pic though!

I definitely missed the wink.  I imagine house cats could have a effect on song birds, but I've seen a hen turkey mess a small dog up when he decided a poult snack sounded great. Dog was hurting. Think the same would happen with a cat, but they are defy more stealthy than a small dog.