THE GREAT HEALTH CARE DEBATE..

[ncountry]

Well said, greybeard.Imo .. I think what it boils down to ,if we all stepped back and looked at the situation, is this.... Do we as a society want to care for our friends and neighbors in their time of need. Or look the other way.... and go back to survival of the fittest. I think it is our obligation to help those less fortunate than ourselves given the opportunity . We either need universal health care of some sort(unfortunately it is going to have to be government run) or let the unfortunate die when it is their "time"

[Early]

Posts like this are great...for identiying the uncaring bastards who suck whatever they can from our society but wish to give nothing to nobody! We would be better off without them!

[fasteddie]

There is a big difference between being Unfortunate and being a Lazy Leech !

[Grouse]

Early, without people who care about what's best for the country, rather than what makes you feel good, this society would be doomed.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Doc]

I have just a few questions for those who are all for creating or expanding these kinds of entitlement programs. Do you recognize any limits as to how far the government should take care of us? I have read some empassioned idealogy relating to how providing for citizens is a societal responsibility. Do you see any limits to that at all? Are you for total cradle-to-grave care, guaranteed to all citizens? Do you feel that all life preparations are the collective responsibility of society? Can we expand that idealogy to such things as food, housing, entertainment, etc.? Is this becoming a deal where we all just throw our money into a pot and let the government dole out life's essentials? Where are the limits? Are there any limits?

Sometimes I think we all assume that we are a lot more evolved a society than we can truthfully afford to be. I am always mindful that there really are limits. Cold and cruel though that may be, the fact is that for the good and survival of our way of life, we do have to put some brakes on our wish to do good. It's just a cold hard financial fact of practicality that if ignored could cost all of us our survival.

[Paula]

18 Years ago My wife had a very bad stoke and when it happened the doctor said that she only had 30 hours to live. The doctor told me to picture an apple and think of it as my wifes brain and then cut the apple in half and that is what happen to my wifes brain.Well she made it through after a month and a half in the hospital and three months in rehab, and then two years of speech. When this happened my wife and I had very good jobs and ins. ,So the cost to us was very little out of pocket.

Now I want to tell you about another stoke victim who was in rehab with my wife and was her room mate. This woman also had a very good job ( RN) and worked hard her whole life and she also had health Ins.. She worked for a very large and well known hospital and her husband worked construction for himself. Now you would think that with her being an (RN) and working for a hospital ,that she would have very good Ins. Guess again. The people at the rehab had told them that their Ins. would not cover her stay and her husband told her that they would have sell their home to cover the cost. All this poor woman did is cry day and night before they shipped her off to a nursing home. There are many people in the same boat and will lose everything if they become sick and have no Ins. That is why we need health Ins for everyone.There are many people out there who have worked hard their whole life and could not afford it , if it were not for Obamacare

I am glad your wife made it, and its too bad the other lady didn't have better insurance, but i don't think that the unfortunate is owed anymore from the fortunate. Even those who feel that they are poor and work still give to what is called welfare to those that are lazy leeches as fateddie calls them. those are the ones that have the newest car and phone the better clothes because they know how to work the system. call me an uncaring bastard because i am sick of giving!

Edited April 8, 2012 by paula

[Early]

Entitlement??......This is a good word to forget...since it is so often misused.

If we could stay out of all the ill-advised wars we are engaged in, and eliminate or drastically reduce the amount we spend on foreign, we could easily take care of our own. Yes....from cradle to grave, if necessary.

Scary to learn that there are so many heartless among us!

[Paula]

Scary to learn that there are so many heartless among us!

stop saying that, i think people are tired of giving when so much is taken with out permission

[sits in trees]

She had insurance - if she wanted more, they could have purchased. Why should I be mandated to pay for someones else's when they choose not to cover themselves sufficiently for their wants. If she was an RN, she made enough to carry proper insurance with lifestyle adjustments. We all have choices.

the mandate is to make people who choose not to have insurance to get insurance. the more people who take responsibility for themselves and get insurance brings the price down. I really dont think you can just leave things the way they are. Health insurance rates have tripled in less than 10 years causing employers to stop providing it, even secure state jobs are charging their employees thru the nose for insurance. The run away cost of unregulated health ins companies have stagnated our economy with many people not receiving any pay increases for years now just so they can keep their health insurance....

[sits in trees]

I have just a few questions for those who are all for creating or expanding these kinds of entitlement programs. Do you recognize any limits as to how far the government should take care of us? I have read some empassioned idealogy relating to how providing for citizens is a societal responsibility. Do you see any limits to that at all? Are you for total cradle-to-grave care, guaranteed to all citizens? Do you feel that all life preparations are the collective responsibility of society? Can we expand that idealogy to such things as food, housing, entertainment, etc.? Is this becoming a deal where we all just throw our money into a pot and let the government dole out life's essentials? Where are the limits? Are there any limits?

Sometimes I think we all assume that we are a lot more evolved a society than we can truthfully afford to be. I am always mindful that there really are limits. Cold and cruel though that may be, the fact is that for the good and survival of our way of life, we do have to put some brakes on our wish to do good. It's just a cold hard financial fact of practicality that if ignored could cost all of us our survival.

your comparing mandated insurance to a complete gov run health care system, which Obama care is not. It is still insurance provided by the free market and paid for by the individual to the health insurer not the gov. Edited April 8, 2012 by sits in trees

[waterweasle]

Posts like this are great...for identiying the uncaring bastards who suck whatever they can from our society but wish to give nothing to nobody! We would be better off without them!

thats nice that you need to be told WHEN and how much you MUST give by the govt, while I choose to give out of my own charitable donations...............awfully high pedestal you've climbed for yourself

[Doc]

your comparing mandated insurance to a complete gov run health care system, which Obama care is not. It is still insurance provided by the free market and paid for by the individual to the health insurer not the gov.

Ok, I understood that Obama Care was another version of socialized medicine. So what happens to the current medicare program that I have been paying into all my life?

[Mike G]

Mike G....and similar "scrooges"...those who decry any form of govt. assistance to the less fortunated...To you I say, when you have removed yourself from the govt. teat...and have paid back everything you have ever received from the govt...and agree to never more receive anything in the way of govt. service...then, and only then, will I listen to you. But, that will never happen, will it? Remember, those who take from the govt...including you, MIke...should not fault the govt. for giving to others!!!

I don't know what the less "fortunated" are. I am 70 years of age and have never received any government assistance.

So I guess you will listen to me. You are a socialist.

[SteveB]

Posts like this are great...for identiying the uncaring bastards who suck whatever they can from our society but wish to give nothing to nobody! We would be better off without them!

Because I wish to choose who to spend my money on to help rather then feel good about the government deciding where my money gets spent, I am an uncaring bastard? If that is your qualifier then yes, I am one and proud of it.

[bubba]

Early is just a guy who loves to stir things up and call names. In other words a liberal. I bet he lives on the dole and does not want to lose his income. If you notice he or she has no facts or figures just names and finger pointing.

Edited April 9, 2012 by bubba

[Grouse]

I wish the country were full of people like Early. I could quit my job, go on welfare, get food stamps, a free apartment, medical and dental and spend all of my time hunting and fishing.

Of course, so would most of the population, so guys like Early would run out of money fast, which means the system is unsustainable.

Darn, it sounded like a plan while I was thinking progressively. Just proves one can progessively make things worse too.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Grouse

[bubba]

that would be ok if early paid into the system to keep us rather than live off the system

[greybeard]

Mike G. You're the only senior I know who has turned down social secutiy, medicare, and veterans benefits(if applicable). I am glad to see that you have done so well . I have just never heard of that before. Even the wealthy people that I know don't turn those down.I wouldn't do it, but there are apparently some who would like to follow your lead, how did you cancel those government entitlements ? Did you cancel after you figured you met your contribution amount, or just refused it all. I gather that you don't take advantage of the lower hunting/fishing license rates since that would be an entitlement based on your age. Seniors get so many government assisted benfits I'm just astounded that you turn them all down. I realize that on some senior discounts, since I pay less the young pay more, but I accept it and always did. , How come you don't take advantage of those discounts ? . I am truly interested since you are so different from everyone I know.

For those that like to throw the term socialist around so freely. I would ask you again to think about what YOU take from the gov't.... Public roads, public parks,, public hunting land, public schools, etc. Everyone pays so everyone CAN use, but even those who don't use them still pay.

What about disabled people.. I guess in your definition it's socialism for the government to assist them. What about the wounded vets that require lifelong assistance from the government ? What about the veteran benefits that the government provides for free to the combat vets ?

If you go to a nursing home the probability is that most of your lifelong earnings will be depleted you will then be placed on medicaid. There's a possibility of that happening to any of us. Should medicaid be eliminated and the elderly turned out to die ?

For those opposed to health care for everyone, please consider the possibility of the poor not getting preventive health care and infecting you, or your families especially the very young, and very old. The sick will be in your supermarkets , department stores , workplaces, schools, etc. touching the products you touch, the doors you open, etc.and spreading their disesaes that were undiagnosed and therefore untreated.There will be more contagious diseases and those who become infected could include you, or members of your family.

For those who say you don't care about our people as long as you don't have to pay for their healthcare. You will still have to pay the government to collect the bodies from their homes , or pick up the dead from the streets. I guess you like the stories about the plague. I realize that that is a bit of an overstatement, but the reality is that more people will be sick and more will die without funds.

In conclusion I ask those who oppose our government helping all of it's people.

.

.Why do you have such harsh feelings for those less fortunate then you regardless of circumstances ?

When many factory workers in the midwest lost their jobs why do you oppose the government assisting them until they can recover ? Is it ok that their children starve, or go without medical assistance because you don't want to pay a a few tax dollars to help them.

When tornados, hurricanes,floods, or other natural disasters strike our communities don't you feel that our government should step in to assist it's people ?

If it's you who needs help will you stand up for your beliefs and refuse all assistance from the government for you and your family ? Will you look your children in the eye and tell them that you would rather that they suffer then have them eat, or get medical care, or shelter because the funds would come from the government ?

Do you really want to be like a 3rd world country ?

[NFA-ADK]

1. Social Security
   
2. Medicare
   
3. Out of control fed and state salaries, pensions, medical and dental coverage.
   
4. War's we can not afford at the cost of good american lives.
   
5. Oil prices that our middle to poor can not afford yet our gov does nothing.
   
6. Now you want me to trust the people who messed all this up with my health care? I think you know my point of view...
   They can not even fix what is broken now and you want me to think this health care is not going to spiral out of control, sure, twinkie anyone?
   

[sits in trees]

Ok, I understood that Obama Care was another version of socialized medicine. So what happens to the current medicare program that I have been paying into all my life?

To be totally honest with you i dont really know.

[Early]

Most likely...if the govt. works true-to-form, our Medicare premiums will go UP!

[sits in trees]

My first question was about the mandate. It seems alot of folks here have been brainwashed by good ole Fox news that the affordable healthcare act is some kind of complete gov takeover/universal healthcare type thing, which it is not.

I dont beleive it is socialism because it was invented by republicans way before Romney ever put it into place in his home state where in fact it is working.

So getting back to the Mandate which is what this whole thing hinges on (forget all the idealogical debates). Isnt it a good idea to make people take responsibility and make them pay for their own health care? Our biggest problem is too many folks who could afford some sort of health insurance just choose not to do so..Example>>OOOhhhh im only 35 and im healthy and my wife runs 5 miles a day and is also healthy why the heck should i pay 10 thousand buck a year for health care. Eample>>>Mister im healthy and only 35 gets a pain in his chest and finds out he needs a catheterization and it cost 58 thousand bucks for the operation. He says hey i aint got the money and he owns a home which has an underwater mortage and is worthless in todays economy or lives in an apartment and there really isnt any way to make him pay.

So what does the hospital do, hell yaa they raise the price on the folks who do have insurance! its an endless cycle and that is why a catheterization cost 58 thousand bucks in America and half that in Germany or France!

Saying this this health care law is socialism just doesnt make sense in my opinion, it does what ever goog God fearin flag wavin conservative talks about all the time, Make folks take responsibilty for their own health insurance.

[sits in trees]

So now for the idealogical part. Example>> when Mr im only 35 and healthy and i dont need health insurance gets his chest pain and goes to the emergency room and is asked that very first question, the one they ask before where does it hurt.....this one> " sir do you have health insurance" and he replies, uuuhhh i aint got none should we put him back in the ambulance and take him home????

Or better yet he brings his 7 year old little girl to the emergancey room because she is passing out and white as a sheet and they find out its acute lymphocytic leukemia and it will cost over a million dollars for years of treatments that will save her little life, what do we do? send her home with mom... That would solve this whole problem in a nutshell and we would not need mandates right?

[Paula]

Most likely...if the govt. works true-to-form, our Medicare premiums will go UP!

that would be mandatory giving and you seem ok with that

[Doc]

I spent a bit of time out on the net reading some of the stuff that is published about Obama care. I have to give a lot of credit to anyone who can read that stuff and come away with any single conclusion. Just about every statement has another site that will refute it. A lot of it is self contardictory as you read further. Everybody seems to represent themselves as the sole authority on the program.

No one seems to actually get down to some of the details such as the quality of the insurance that is being forced to be purchased. We all know that there are huge differences in what different policies and companies will cover. Deductibles, and just plain items that are covered or not vary all over the place. So what are the real nuts and bolts of these policies that we are forced to buy. Some may not be worth the paper they are printed on.

Also, when it comes to the poor magically being made to purchase policies, there seems to be a bit of confusion about how that is going to happen. They can't afford to buy them now, but some how they will be able to with the implementation of Obama care. Oh yes, I did read something about them getting tax credits to help. Tax credits for the poor???? I think it is the old promise of something coming out of nothing.

So, I finally gave up on all the contradictory info out there. I guess we will all have to wait until we are personally effected before we will know whether it is a good thing or not. Imagine some of the shocking surprises we are in store for when it turns out that what we thought we knew isn't true at all......ha-ha.