Crossbows are NOT more accurate than Compounds

[The_Real_TCIII]

"New York Senate Bill 7747 (S7747) would allow youth hunters ages 12-16 and senior hunters ages 55+ to hunt with a crossbow during special archery seasons. The bill also removes current minimum limb width and maximum draw weight restrictions."

So not just seniors


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[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, moog5050 said:

It seems to me that guys that want full inclusion overemphasize how easy compounds are and folks that oppose it do the opposite.  Of course it’s easier for the uninitiated to shoot a crossbow accurately vs a compound.  But it also doesn’t take all that much effort to learn to shoot a compound reasonably accurately at typical NY hunting distances, say inside 30yds.  My first year hunting, I bought my first bow in Sept and killed 2 deer with a bow in Oct.  Not the greatest kill shots but that was more nerves having never killed anything.  My shooting was decent in a few practice sessions.   If I am not feeling up to par with a recurve, I will always take the compound over crossbow because I think it’s easier to move in a stand and carry.  And I think I am equally accurate with it.   Honestly, if you ever hunted with a recurve, you know that modern compounds are not difficult.   But if you want to hand someone an implement that never shot a bow at all, they can shoot a crossbow accurately almost immediately (at reasonable ranges).    I don’t care much either way whether crossbows get full inclusion.  I won’t use one anyways.  

I think you point out something that 99% of people would agree with. Just because the crossbow is easier, doesn't mean the compound is hard. It doesn't take much for a new hunter to be accurate under 30 with a compound and it's even better if this new archer has been hunting and mastered some of the wood skills needed to achieve success. I think by and large many of us would say that the flinging of the arrow itself is relatively easy, but knowing when to stand and draw that is something that comes with time and experience. The later 2 can be eliminated with a crossbow.

But yes, it's not horribly difficult to learn to shoot a compound. Just because it's easier to learn to shoot a crossbow doesn't mean the compound is hard.

[Five Seasons]

15 minutes ago, hueyjazz said:

Belo

"at what distance" 

At fifty yards standing flat footed at a still target.  And a modern compound is still easy to shoot if you have good body mechanics.  

I never said it made you a deer hunter.  

First, why are you even having a youngster shoot at 50 yards? That's not a shot 98% of NY hunters will ever take. And to be clear, you're stating a brand new archer is shooting 5" groups at 50 yards after 1 day of training? That's the width of my hand to put it in reference, just to be sure we're all on the same page with what you're claiming. 

[Five Seasons]

14 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

So not just seniors


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I have a long well documented history of my opinion on full inclusion, but I have always, from day 1 advocated for a senior and easy process for disabled hunters to use the crossbow. 

I am not so on board with the youth exemption and have some concerns regarding the poundage restrictions being removed.

If full inclusion becomes a thing I'll lose zero sleep over it, but I still have a right to feel how I do without a need to explain it, just like anyone has a right to think the opposite. 

[Jeremy K]

I've always thought every hunter should have to start with a bow before being allowed to ever hunt big game with a gun ,that's not a popular opinion I've learned . 

[wolc123]

I would like to see archery season split up as follows:  Give the recurve and longbow folks the first crack: October 1-14.  Call that “traditional archery season”. 
 

The “modern” part would run October 15, until opening day of  gun, and compounds and crossbows could be used in that part.  
 

I think such a compromise would appeal to many more hunters, than the current structure.
 

 Personally, I could care less if full inclusion of the crossbow ever passes, so long as we can keep the best two weeks of southern zone archery season for the crossbow, and have that special early antlerless gun season, that started last year.

The folks who are getting screwed the worst, by the current structure, is crossbow hunters and merchants up in the northern zone.  They don’t even get a single weekend before the guns come in, with early ML season, the way things are structured currently.  The radical anti-crossbow NYB group must have more political influence up there.  

[Jeremy K]

3 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I would like to see archery season split up as follows:  Give the recurve and longbow folks the first crack: October 1-14.  Call that “traditional archery season”. 
 

The “modern” part would run October 15, until opening day of  gun, and compounds and crossbows could be used in that part.  
 

I think such a compromise would appeal to many more hunters, than the current structure.
 

 Personally, I could care less if full inclusion of the crossbow ever passes, so long as we can keep the best two weeks of southern zone archery season for the crossbow, and have that special early antlerless gun season, that started last year.

The folks who are getting screwed the worst, by the current structure, is crossbow hunters and merchants up in the northern zone.  They don’t even get a single weekend before the guns come in, with early ML season, the way things are structured currently.  The radical anti-crossbow NYB group must have more political influence up there.  

Why can't we just leave archery season the way it is and admit crossbows are not archery equipment and belong in gunnseadon?

[The_Real_TCIII]

I have a long well documented history of my opinion on full inclusion, but I have always, from day 1 advocated for a senior and easy process for disabled hunters to use the crossbow. 
I am not so on board with the youth exemption and have some concerns regarding the poundage restrictions being removed.
If full inclusion becomes a thing I'll lose zero sleep over it, but I still have a right to feel how I do without a need to explain it, just like anyone has a right to think the opposite. 

Saved me a lot of typing and you can have all the shade lol


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[hueyjazz]

My Belo

We were not hunting and I was not teaching them how to hunt.  Some people actually use a bow to shoot a target.  The bow I had available was my older generation compound hunting bow with target arrows. 

The center of my target is a 5-inch yellow circle.  The longest distance on my range is 50 yards but archery competitions are often held at 70 meters just for reference.  We started closed like most do when they begin and moved them back.  I clearly noted and was impressed that by the end of the day they were regularly hitting most arrows in the yellow.  It was windless and the sun was overhead. 

And even though I would NEVER take a 50-yard shot while hunting, I do occasional shoot there to hone skill.  

My journey started with a recurve with no sights and the arrows were wood with feathers.  I move with the technology as it advanced.

Perhaps I should be arrogant and put forth the argument that they never should have allowed compounds into bow season as they are far easier to shoot.  But I really don't care what you use.

And this senior doesn't need any help at all so stick your special seasons.

Edited February 23, 2022 by hueyjazz

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Robhuntandfish said:

which is easier to shoot?  lol.  Well one i have to have set up at a "Pro" shop before I shoot it.  The other I take out of a box....  seems kinda hands down right.  

I can shoot my xbow lefthanded..... try switching with a compound.  

I can hand my xbow to any of you and you will bullseye with it.   Try it with my compound.  

Which is easier to shoot- a rifle with 6-8 pounds pulling against it to hold it still ?  or a rifle without? 

It amazes me guys that think the compound is as easy, its as if theyve never shot a xbow. I take mine out and shoot it once before season.  GTG.  The compound I start practicing with in August,  and thats after years of shooting. Many guys shoot all year to keep form and practice. 

Its like saying its easier to fly a plane than drive for a pilot.  Because theyve done it so much they might feel that way but it isnt easier. Thats ridiculous.    

Most guys pick up a compound maybe a month before season shot a few dozen arrows and then never shoot another all season unless it's at a deer..  most are not avid archers that practice year round,  of all the members here ( who already have a bias as they are more avid and choose to participate in a forum) its still  the same 20 guys that post..  the 1st shot post are the same group, you cannot say all bow hunters practice all the time. I will say most do not . 

[G-Man]

5 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

Which is easier to draw and hold at full draw ? The one with the boat winch built into the stock or the one where the shooter is responsible for drawing and holding on the stops

The let offs now are so high that the weight of a riser will keep it drawn , with modern cams there is no reason to draw high weights. The arrows kill fine at reasonable hunting distances.

[G-Man]

32 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Why can't we just leave archery season the way it is and admit crossbows are not archery equipment and belong in gunnseadon?

They kill by hemoraging and are propelled by a string.  Same as a bow.  What does it matter if they are included in all season  harvest rates are the same.  You can use a recurve or long bow in same season.  You still have to move into position for a shot 35 yards and in for 90% of shot taken  most under 20 yards..   just admit you fear someone killing a deer , that's it..  most on here hunt private land so won't effect us at all.  And requiring the archery course  instead of a piece of paper signed would deter many from even taking it up , as it is now ,nybh has created a free for all with the idea they are a gun.. arrows don't fly like a bullet at all..  shots will deflect same as any arrow.. 

[G-Man]

41 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I would like to see archery season split up as follows:  Give the recurve and longbow folks the first crack: October 1-14.  Call that “traditional archery season”. 
 

The “modern” part would run October 15, until opening day of  gun, and compounds and crossbows could be used in that part.  
 

I think such a compromise would appeal to many more hunters, than the current structure.
 

 Personally, I could care less if full inclusion of the crossbow ever passes, so long as we can keep the best two weeks of southern zone archery season for the crossbow, and have that special early antlerless gun season, that started last year.

The folks who are getting screwed the worst, by the current structure, is crossbow hunters and merchants up in the northern zone.  They don’t even get a single weekend before the guns come in, with early ML season, the way things are structured currently.  The radical anti-crossbow NYB group must have more political influence up there.  

I'd  give the 1st 2 weeks of November to  traditional archery and oct 1st 2 week as compound , traditional only then open up crossbow traditional compound for last 2 weeks oct..  if it's truly about preserving "archery " then the hardest to use should have the best time, bonus is tons of bucks would make it thru season and be available for gun hunters.

[Jeremy K]

7 minutes ago, G-Man said:

The let offs now are so high that the weight of a riser will keep it drawn , with modern cams there is no reason to draw high weights. The arrows kill fine at reasonable hunting distances.

Are you trying to convince me or yourself? I already know where crossbows stand as far as archery equipment .

 

[rob-c]

The elephant  in the room for bow vs crossbow , is the crossbow is cocked and ready. How many of us that bow hunt have been busted drawing our  bow? I know I have been . I have several guy’s  I work with and they all hung up the compound and went to a crossbow, I’ve asked them all is it easier to get a shot off at a deer with the crossbow ? And all said absolutely it is. One coworker is a pretty die hard bow hunter but says when ever he’s in one of his elevated blinds or ground blind he uses his crossbow ( P.A hunter ) because it’s so much easier. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing full inclusion doesn't bother me In the slightest .

Edited February 23, 2022 by rob-c

[G-Man]

2 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Who said it was “hard”?

About anyone who thinks crossbows are easy..target vs hunting situations are totally different,  can be great target shooter but shale like a leaf with game in front and not be able to hit broadside of barn...

[G-Man]

4 minutes ago, rob-c said:

The elephant  in the room for bow vs crossbow is the crossbow is cocked and ready. How many of us that bow hunt have been busted drawing our  bow? I know I have been . I have several guy’s  I work with and they all hung up the compound and went to a crossbow, I’ve asked them all is it easier to get a shot off at a deer with the crossbow ? And all said absolutely it is. One coworker is a pretty die hard bow hunter but says when ever he’s in one of his elevated blinds or ground blind he uses his crossbow ( P.A hunter ) because it’s so much easier. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing full inclusion doesn't bother me In the slightest .

Busted moving into position, never drawing ..  if your busted drawing you drawing wrong time, or bow makes noise.   Easier from a blind yes off a rest yes.. from normal ladder or hang on ,same  if not harder as tree gets in way of horizontal limbs.. one of the reasons  I have no issue with limits on limb with or draw weight.  It's a trade off. 

[Four Seasons]

48 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Why can't we just leave archery season the way it is and admit crossbows are not archery equipment and belong in gunnseadon?

Because crossbows do not kill with bullets. 

[G-Man]

8 minutes ago, Jeremy K said:

Are you trying to convince me or yourself? I already know where crossbows stand as far as archery equipment .

 

Unless your shooing a traditional recurve or long bow your using same technology, and archery equipment when drawn by hand , which  would be glove, tab or fingers... 99% all use a trigger release today. 

[Buckmaster7600]

This is the most idiotic article I’ve wasted time on reading in a long time!

If 10 members on this site can walk out with their compound and shoot a 3” group at 50yds I would be shocked!

Every member could do it with an Xbow

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[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, G-Man said:

Unless your shooing a traditional recurve or long bow your using same technology, and archery equipment when drawn by hand , which  would be glove, tab or fingers... 99% all use a trigger release today. 

Not the same ,draw and hold on the stops like a bow or its not the same.

[BizCT]

4 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Who said it was “hard”?

I mean it seems everyone is so concerned with their method being harder than the next. But besides Trial, I don't see anyone on here consistently bowhunting through all gun seasons like I do on bowsite. 

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, hueyjazz said:

And this senior doesn't need any help at all so stick your special seasons.

lol what?

[Five Seasons]

3 hours ago, rob-c said:

The elephant  in the room for bow vs crossbow , is the crossbow is cocked and ready. How many of us that bow hunt have been busted drawing our  bow? I know I have been . I have several guy’s  I work with and they all hung up the compound and went to a crossbow, I’ve asked them all is it easier to get a shot off at a deer with the crossbow ? And all said absolutely it is. One coworker is a pretty die hard bow hunter but says when ever he’s in one of his elevated blinds or ground blind he uses his crossbow ( P.A hunter ) because it’s so much easier. I for one wouldn’t mind seeing full inclusion doesn't bother me In the slightest .

People often forget in 2022 that the archery season began as a challenge. It wasn't meant to reduce deer populations, it was intended to challenge the hunter beyond the challenges of the centerfire. I will admit my first bow was a compound with carbon arrows and a release, I cannot help when I was born. But I'm from a long line of hunters and I've seen the bins full of wooden and aluminum arrows with giant fletchings. The first few compounds and the recurves, the thumb tabs etc. 

I understand that technology has blown way past what the first generation or archers had in mind. I understand that state fish and game have now seen this season as more of a heard reduction exercise than it was ever intended to be. So much so now that many states allow full inclusion and even this state now has an early firearm season for god's sakes. 

It's the same old argument here. Why do you care? You can hunt with a recurve and set your own limitations. For sure, that is absolutely correct. And no, no I don't think you're killing "my deer". But yes you can call me an elitest, but I prefer purist because I do love pulling back on a my bow at just the right time when the buck is behind the tree and praying with every ounce of spirituality that I have that he doesn't stay behind that tree too long. Praying that I have enough calm to slow the pounding in my chest and still the trembling of my knees while keeping my peep in focus and not blurring out so that when he does step out I can slip one behind his shoulder. I pray that I remember to keep my bow arm up, I pray that I follow through and had my grip correct and level so that IF I'm lucky enough to see the arrow penetrate, that it landed where I intended.

Finally, I'm walking the blood trail with nervous anticipation because unless you saw him go down, you're never really quite sure are you? Then that moment... that moment where you walk up on the animal and all those hours in the spring and summer, all that time, all that practice, all the money and effort has paid off. It's f*cking beautiful. I don't like the idea of a young kid starting out with a crossbow and you can't change my mind on that. I've never come close to experiencing what I just described with raising a gun and putting the crosshairs of a gun on a deer and I've shot some dandies with one. I imagine i's so rewarding because it's not easy. Some here will say it is, but you're not the norm. Taking a nice buck with a bow is hard. And anything in life that is hard, is worth doing and that much more special when you're good at it. The crossbow just erodes at that challenge, it chisels away at what it means to be a bowhunter.

You may consider me thick headed, stubborn or even ignorant but I've always considered myself pretty open minded and the idea or using one of these in the woods just cannot and does not conjure up the challenge and pureness of archery. So what that there are cams on my bow and a fiber optic pin? So what that I pull it back with a strap around my wrist? It's still archery in every same body-mechanical way that it was 60 years ago, even if it's more advanced now.

This... this just isn't.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Belo

[Waterfowler]

I don’t know what’s worse a vaccination thread or crossbow....