The Expanded Antler Restrictions - Who is excited?

[nyantler]

According to the DEC monetary impact on the communities will be minimal, I tend to agree with them. And I think "upstate" is hanging on just fine.

I don't support AR's and in my opinion they don't go far enough to have an impact. Seem's like a half assed attempt to quiet some groups down, the same groups do not want stricter AR's put into place.

I find it interseting how many hunter's cannot age a deer if their life depended on it, mistaking Button bucks for does is crazy to me, balking at a 1.5 year and killing a 2.5 year old and thinking that is any better is crazy to me too. I'm not suggesting being able to tell a 4 yr old from a 5yr old is important, but maybe we should educate hunters on how to tell which buck is a 3.5 yr old compared to a 1.5 or 2.5 yr old and then let them decide what to shoot.

Funny.. it's okay for you to make that statement and you're not a condescending dink...lol... I agree with you by the way.. glad you said it instead of me.. now you won't have to get all upset.

[nyantler]

Wow............

I know.. sometimes the truth is so hard to except... I'll try to be more politically correct from now on so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

[nyantler]

One guy said it earlier the DEC. has stated AR’s are not necessary for whitetail management. So adjusting DMP’s up or down has nothing do with the AR program. It has to do with the state of the deer population in that WMU.

Contrary to what some of you think killing doe’s doesn’t give you more bucks it gives you fewer deer. (notice I said doe’s not antlerless)

Killing does can give you less deer... but thats usually what any good management program is looking for if they're giving out a lot of permits. Deer population should be controlled based on available habitat not on how many deer hunters want to see for hunting purposes.

[growalot]

But the point I was making is the AR program is set up in a manner that in areas of low DMP the younger bucks are going to be killed just as much if not more..I say this because in those areas you now have the OPPORTUNITY of most hunters having not one but two buck tags due to Archery/ML...allowing for if not one young and one old class buck being taken but 2 younger class taken...Now that I have said this...how many ppl do any of you know that don't get 2 buck tags?...I personally don't know any...Now that's not an issue here...because we have high doe tags as well and it's not a big deal to fill the second buck tag....

[Skillet]

I know.. sometimes the truth is so hard to except... I'll try to be more politically correct from now on so nobody gets their feelings hurt.

You give yourself too much credit, no one cares what you think enough to get their feelings hurt.

[nyantler]

You give yourself too much credit, no one cares what you think enough to get their feelings hurt.

Okay then maybe not to offend anyone... because you seem quite offended by the truth. I must have struck a nerve somewhere with you.. since your original BS post you have yet to post another reasonable argument for your position on AR's... just that you're a meat hunter.. well so are most every hunter here... all you've done is name call because you have a hard time with facts and have none of your own to back up your position. I haven't really stated what I "think"... I've only given you proven facts and you don't like them... all your whining isn't gonna change that... it's impossible to believe that anyone can have a reasonable intelligent conversation with someone who thinks breaking the law will be the answer to mandatory AR's... you're exactly the type of hunter New York doesn't need... so go whine somewhere else.

Edited August 9, 2012 by nyantler

[Doc]

It will be interesting to see in these new AR areas, where doe tags were not adjusted to hinder the possible thought..." Crap..it's a 3x2...better take it ...before I end up with tag soup" " Oh...it's a 6pt better..ect..."...will fair in this protect the young and let them grow mantra....Is that the hope? ...the first year take all those medium age bucks...leave the babys...ie spike and four pts...so the older bucks that slipped through make it....but then you just have a repeat...the following year....when doe tags are not adjusted properly address the meat hunters...or does the DEC think ppl aren't meat hunters any more?

Squirting out the side of your comment comes another thought that is independant of doe tags. I wonder how many guys who were nicely moving toward shooting more mature deer are going to feel encouraged to take down a little yearling buck that happened to be so unfortunate as to grow a scraggley little 3-point rack on one side. All because now the state and all their hunter brethren have unanimously agreed that it is a legal adult buck worthy of being shot now. Interesting thought isn't it? Instead of that scrawny little deer maybe getting a pass by some people, perhaps the AR rule will encourage them to shoot it.

[Doc]

Killing does can give you less deer... but thats usually what any good management program is looking for if they're giving out a lot of permits. Deer population should be controlled based on available habitat not on how many deer hunters want to see for hunting purposes.

Unfortunately, we know that deer populations are controlled to satisfy human co-existance with the critters with very little influence of available habitat or deer herd welfare. If you don't believe that, just take a look at the various disciplines represented in the Citizen Task Forces. Go through the descriptions of the candidates for these task forces and their requirements and place them in pro-deer, and anti-deer categories. It really does show the true colors of the DEC management scheme.

Sorry to bump the conversation sideways, but it probably is about time for a bit of a reality check when it comes to the real criteria for population size selection and the setting of permit quotas.

[Fairgame]

Before ARs people were encouraged to shoot a "straggley" 3 inch spike. All its doing is giving some of these deer a chance to live past the first year. The hunters that dont hunt these areas don't know what it really was like. Before all this the straggley spike or 5 point was all you were going to see in the woods. Thats why some hunters that are getting it for the first time are worried. The chances of shooting any legal buck drop for the first year but gets alot better after. My chances of shooting a 2.5 or a 3.5 year old deer have risen 1000 percent compared to 6 years ago. There is no comparison.

[nyantler]

Unfortunately, we know that deer populations are controlled to satisfy human co-existance with the critters with very little influence of available habitat or deer herd welfare. If you don't believe that, just take a look at the various disciplines represented in the Citizen Task Forces. Go through the descriptions of the candidates for these task forces and their requirements and place them in pro-deer, and anti-deer categories. It really does show the true colors of the DEC management scheme.

Sorry to bump the conversation sideways, but it probably is about time for a bit of a reality check when it comes to the real criteria for population size selection and the setting of permit quotas.

Unfortunately your exactly right... my comment was about what it is suppose to be not how it is. If I was speaking about NY I would not have used the words "good management program".

[Doc]

Before ARs people were encouraged to shoot a "straggley" 3 inch spike. All its doing is giving some of these deer a chance to live past the first year. The hunters that dont hunt these areas don't know what it really was like. Before all this the straggley spike or 5 point was all you were going to see in the woods. Thats why some hunters that are getting it for the first time are worried. The chances of shooting any legal buck drop for the first year but gets alot better after. My chances of shooting a 2.5 or a 3.5 year old deer have risen 1000 percent compared to 6 years ago. There is no comparison.

What I was getting at is that there has been a growing pressure among hunters not to accept yearling bucks as viable harvests. Now basically what ARs are saying is that if you can squeeze any old 3 points on either side, let the lead fly. It is universally sanctioned in those AR areas.

[Fairgame]

I see what you are saying. I wish these AR areas were like it is in other parts of N.Y where you could see all different age bucks. These restrictions wouldnt be needed and everyone could basically hunt the way they wanted. These areas before ARs were hurting for a buck over 1.5 years old. Sounds crazy but its true.

I dont see any negatives since the program started except for the initial first year on opportunity on shooting a buck because they were that rare. After that I actually experienced alot more buck sightings in the woods while hunting.

[Meat Hunter]

What ARs are saying is do not shoot yearling bucks and three points on a side is a quick rule of thumb as to what is a yearling in the current AR area. In the area that has ARs in NY 3 points protects 70% of the yearlings. And hunters finally have a choice of adult bucks.

Hunters do not end up harvesting lots of yearling bucks with 3 points. Only 15% of the harvest is yearling bucks in the AR areas and that includes the youth hunters who can kill three inch spikes. I know that lots of those 3-4 point yearling bucks survive because I see them after the hunting season. Before ARs when we could feed the deer I never saw small racked or any buck after season even with feed.

[Skillet]

Okay then maybe not to offend anyone... because you seem quite offended by the truth. I must have struck a nerve somewhere with you.. since your original BS post you have yet to post another reasonable argument for your position on AR's... just that you're a meat hunter.. well so are most every hunter here... all you've done is name call because you have a hard time with facts and have none of your own to back up your position. I haven't really stated what I "think"... I've only given you proven facts and you don't like them... all your whining isn't gonna change that... it's impossible to believe that anyone can have a reasonable intelligent conversation with someone who thinks breaking the law will be the answer to mandatory AR's... you're exactly the type of hunter New York doesn't need... so go whine somewhere else.

Nah, I'll stay here and piss in your wheaties. You seem like just the type of guy I like to screw with. I think this is the beginning of a long and wonderful relationship. Have a good night joey!

[nyantler]

What I was getting at is that there has been a growing pressure among hunters not to accept yearling bucks as viable harvests. Now basically what ARs are saying is that if you can squeeze any old 3 points on either side, let the lead fly. It is universally sanctioned in those AR areas.

That is definitely a downside of the 3 on a side rule... it still allows hunters to hunt close to the rule instead of promoting shooting only mature bucks... One can't argue much with the stats though ( if they are reliable)... less yearlings are being harvested in AR areas and from what I have heard from hunters in those areas they are seeing more mature bucks in general... so, although not perfect, they seem to be accomplishing their objective.

[nyantler]

Nah, I'll stay here and piss in your wheaties. You seem like just the type of guy I like to screw with. I think this is the beginning of a long and wonderful relationship. Have a good night joey!

LOL.. kids! You aren't old enough to know what type of guy I am or to know how to screw with me. Shouldn't you be texting someone now anyway?

[fishuntrapper]

wow. no wait. WOW!!! LOTSA STUFF HERE. ar or no ar matters little to me. i am still going hunting and will harvest what ever i want that is legal. my concern is where is this going to stop? 3 points now,4 points couple years from now,then 5 on a side? will we tire of 6s and 8s and demand 10s and 12s. will we get so envolved in big antlers that we cant be bothered taking our children or grand-children out for fear they will spook that big buck away. if every one killed "wall hangers" all the time, i might grow so accustomed to the big ones that i wouldnt be excited about seeing your pics. i just dont want deer hunting turning into something it should not be. it should be fun, fullfilling, and rewarding for the whole family and for each one of us envolved. i want to share the results of my hunting with all without being put down because i killed a spike, nor do i need to be put on a pedistile for killing an older buck. i have hunted in 3 states, killed 100 deer and i have to say all have been trophies and all have been quality deer. i am proud of them all. i will tell the stories to all that care to listen, as i also listen (read) with excitement your hunting stories. good luck and happing hunting.

thanks

[growalot]

]That is definitely a downside of the 3 on a side rule... it still allows hunters to hunt close to the rule instead of promoting shooting only mature bucks... [/b]One can't argue much with the stats though ( if they are reliable)... less yearlings are being harvested in AR areas and from what I have heard from hunters in those areas they are seeing more mature bucks in general... so, although not perfect, they seem to be accomplishing their objective.

Well the point I was trying to make is in there...but in your stats or even hunter sightings / takes..... is there any stats on the # of hunters that have left the areas to hunt else where in the state?...IE...In 8N DMP's are given out like candy....Right next door....8M the DMPs are limited....... in the past even hard to get...so the guys apply for 8N and we have an increase of hunters here....I could see the same premise with AR's.... Which of course would lower buck takes and change stats

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I managed to get my hands on the 2012-2013 Hunting Guide. There are 2 articles regarding the management plan. I scanned them in just for you guys. This is getting confusing. Enjoy!

20122013deer article2.pdf

20122013deerart1.pdf

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hmmm. DEC is basically saying the tha arguments being used in support of AR's are...wel....BS

[burmjohn]

Its not that confusing, the DEC and one biologist in particular is not for AR's and makes that quite apparent. Its a shame more research isnt done before posting these articles, I'd expect a little bit more from someone like that.

[Doewhacker]

Or maybe you fella's are just wrong? nah couldn't be. lol

[Skillet]

LOL.. kids! You aren't old enough to know what type of guy I am or to know how to screw with me. Shouldn't you be texting someone now anyway?

Yeah, you're starting to try too hard. I think I have a really good idea of what kind of guy you are. Texting? Where did that come from? I don't even have text. It's OK, I know your mind is starting to go. You must have me confused with someone else. My name is Skillet, remember, joe? The poacher, remember?

Edited August 10, 2012 by Skillet

[Skillet]

Or maybe you fella's are just wrong? nah couldn't be. lol

You shut up! How dare you.

[Doewhacker]

Yeah, you're starting to try too hard. Texting? Where did that come from? I don't even have text. It's OK, I know your mind is starting to go. You must have me confused with someone else. My name is Skillet, remember, joe? The poacher, remember?

yea well I bet you text while you are poaching from the truck so thats double illegal! ha