Expanded AR's Who is not excited?

[nyantler]

ok those 2.5's are great but i know ppl who have been hunting for yrs without seeing a single buck to shoot. i wanna hear why does the deers age make a diff. or give me some info to read pls id like to hear all the info. on antler restrictions and how the age of a deer helps.

There is plenty of info out there... if you just go back and read some of the AR threads you can get a lot of it. As for guys not seeing a buck to shoot... it has more to do with the hunter than the number or quality of the bucks in the area.

[ants]

I pass on smaller bucks all the time. But if a guy buys a license and wants to hang it on a spike or a 4... let him. I have some nice racks out in the garage and I have some not so nice ones. I'm proud of all of them. Alot of the not so nice racks provided meat that I donated.

I'm just not so convinced on this whole Ar thing. I understand the "lets have giant bucks" thing, but is Ar gonna make that happen?? don't know. Seems the Ar people always overlook the fact that is very important to control the number of deer running around out there and not just the number of big bucks.. I do think AR is going to be state wide with in a few years.

[burmjohn]

im done on this matter so if any of u can give me recipe for antlers id appreciate it or even tag stew since we will have to pass on spikers thanks for them recipes

Nah, but I have a few for 200lb tasty deer.

[dave6x6]

ok those 2.5's are great but i know ppl who have been hunting for yrs without seeing a single buck to shoot. i wanna hear why does the deers age make a diff. or give me some info to read pls id like to hear all the info. on antler restrictions and how the age of a deer helps.

Earlier you posted that AR's would somehow hurt to keep hunter numbers up or that you won't be able to get new hunters interested.. Well if this is your current condition, is there any wonder hunter numbers are declining? If you can go years without seing a buck, you would think you would be the first in line to sign on to AR's. All i can see from here is that your in a pretty crappy situation. What do you want to do? Nothing and enjoy the wonderful hunting you are now? Or embrace this change and get to experience an improved hunt and herd in a couple short years.

[noodle one]

I for one do not like or want AR. I feel the one buck tag is what we need. I think we should have our hunting license issued

like they do in New Mexico. Before you can buy your licence, you have to state your weapon of chose and that is the only weapon that you can hunt with. You are issued one tag for one deer (buck or doe) that's it. When you get a deer you must report it at a check sation. and you are all done. I hunt bow, gun and black powder and if I want to I can take three bucks a year and have done so for manny years. I know this would make many people unhappy , but so be it.

[dave6x6]

I for one do not like or want AR. I feel the one buck tag is what we need. I think we should have our hunting license issued

like they do in New Mexico. Before you can buy your licence, you have to state your weapon of chose and that is the only weapon that you can hunt with. You are issued one tag for one deer (buck or doe) that's it. When you get a deer you must report it at a check sation. and you are all done. I hunt bow, gun and black powder and if I want to I can take three bucks a year and have done so for manny years. I know this would make many people unhappy , but so be it.

If your taking three bucks a year, then your a lowlife poacher..

[Dinsdale]

ok just a question if ar's are so great why doesnt dec just make it happen y do they need our support if it is a huge benefit then they would just do it right or wrong? to me sounds like trophy hunter propaganda. but like i said show me info why it is so great

This is from a former (retired) DEC biologist in region 3.....

http://www.hvqdma.com/biological-needs-for-antler-restriction/

[nyantler]

Man I don't...with the comments made to ppl who are fine with just going out and HUNTING...no wonder human instinct kicks in and vague excuses pop up...who wants to get stung by another hunters not so subtle insults? Why can't other hunters worry about their own legal hunts and let it go...and where are all these no big buck areas? ...because I check every other week and the big bucks I'm seeing in the NYODN are from every single area of the state....

What is vague about the excuse? You forgot to quote the rest of my statement... I wasn't saying I care what he shoots at all... I was saying that if you want to complain that the reason you have to kill yearlings is because there are no big bucks.. then why on earth would you be against a program that would help you get to that end so that you weren't limited to only seeing young bucks to kill? That is what I don't undertand... like I said in the last sentence, which you failed to quote as well.. is I perfectly understand the " I want to kill yearling bucks" excuse.

[Tio1]

Shoot whatever deer you want. The trophy is in the eye of the beholder. The problem is the too many bucks are killed per yr in NY. License holder should only be able to kill ONE buck per season.

[nyantler]

I for one do not like or want AR. I feel the one buck tag is what we need. I think we should have our hunting license issued

like they do in New Mexico. Before you can buy your licence, you have to state your weapon of chose and that is the only weapon that you can hunt with. You are issued one tag for one deer (buck or doe) that's it. When you get a deer you must report it at a check sation. and you are all done. I hunt bow, gun and black powder and if I want to I can take three bucks a year and have done so for manny years. I know this would make many people unhappy , but so be it.

Although I'm okay with a one buck rule.. i don't understand why any hunter that wants to take yearling bucks... would be for it instead of AR's... if they stuck to the AR plan and were still allowed the number of bucks that are allowed now.. those yearlng buck hunters would have more chances to take an older buck and possibly multiple older bucks... not sure why one would opt for one young buck a year instead of the option to possibly fill the freezer with 2 or more older bucks. especially since they are arguing that the reason they want to hunt any size they like is to fill the freezer. I think those hunters would be way more unhappy with the one buck rule than AR supporters.

[nyantler]

Shoot whatever deer you want. The trophy is in the eye of the beholder. The problem is the too many bucks are killed per yr in NY. License holder should only be able to kill ONE buck per season.

So you're saying that you absolutely don't want the DEC telling you what type of buck you can shoot, but you're okay with them telling you how many? I've heard the argument on here that "we pay a lot of money for our tags, so we should be able to shoot the buck we want"... wouldn't that argument hold true then for the number of bucks also. Especially if both are being done as part of a conservation effort? Doesn't anyone think it's strange that any hunter would choose a one buck of any age rule over multiple bucks that must have at least 3 points on a side?

And there are not too many bucks killed each year... just too many yearlings.. fortunately those yearlings will be replaced the following year... and every year... the only age groups not getting filled are the ones that were waiting for those dead yearling to fill the older age classes.

[noodle one]

If your taking three bucks a year, then your a lowlife poacher..

How can you say that I am a lowlife poacher. Every deer I have taged with my own tags and legal. I have not nor will I ever take an illegal deer. You don't know me and have no right to make a statement like that. I am 68 years old and have been hunting for 56 years and 52 years for deer . There was a time when a hunter in NY could take 5 bucks if he had the tags and could and find them.

[dave6x6]

Hey Fella, maybe i'm gonna end up looking stupid here or you are. Your quote was that you can take three bucks a year and have done so many times. My super sportsman allows me to take an either sex bow/muzz and a reg. season tag. If there is a way to get a third, i'd like to know how. Sorry to be so blunt. Remember we are talking about deer hunting regulations here.

[mike103]

Well time will tell who is right in the AR fight.

I hunt 4P and 4R as well as 1C at home.

I hope you guys are right and we do see more mature bucks but I have to tell you I don't even see many does. I did not even see a deer in Delware in 2006.

Ar's are here so there is nothing to argue about. I would like to see a one buck rule and a moratorium on doe permits for a few years.

Meanwhile me and my crew are going to hunt the high peaks this year and see if we can find one of them black bears.

Been hunting eastern Delaware for 39 years. Figure I got about 20 or more seasons left.

[wdswtr]

Hey Fella, maybe i'm gonna end up looking stupid here or you are. Your quote was that you can take three bucks a year and have done so many times. My super sportsman allows me to take an either sex bow/muzz and a reg. season tag. If there is a way to get a third, i'd like to know how. Sorry to be so blunt. Remember we are talking about deer hunting regulations here.

I dont see how you can do this every year but every other year is a possibility. If you have a leftover buck tag you can use it for early bow in Northern Tier, then the two buck tags for current year would get you 3. But that means every other year you fill one buck tag to get the 3 the following year. Other than that Im just as confused about 3 buck tags myself.

Edited July 16, 2012 by wdswtr

[covert]

Hey Fella, maybe i'm gonna end up looking stupid here or you are. Your quote was that you can take three bucks a year and have done so many times. My super sportsman allows me to take an either sex bow/muzz and a reg. season tag. If there is a way to get a third, i'd like to know how. Sorry to be so blunt. Remember we are talking about deer hunting regulations here.

Tag one with regular season buck tag, one with bow/MZ either sex tag, one with horns under 3" with an antlerelss tag. Only way I can think of.

[dave6x6]

Tag one with regular season buck tag, one with bow/MZ either sex tag, one with horns under 3" with an antlerelss tag. Only way I can think of.

Ya know, This statement makes me think about something. Do you think there are actually freezer fillers that purposely look to kill buttons and 2" spikes cause they know they can through the antlerless on it?

[erussell]

I dont shoot anything unless its a good size 8. How good a size 8 depends on the yr the deer are having but usually they have to have atleast a 16inch spread or bigger. I prefer bigger so AR's really dont bother me. But I would rather you shot a spike than any of the bigger bucks im watching. Though my wife has banned me from shooting big bucks ( yeah right ) after the shoe leather I brought home last yr. Crock potted a rump roast for 8 hrs and still couldnt eat it. Ended up grinding him up for sausage ( note to self get electric grinder ). I hunt in a high hunter area and do not have a problem finding a good buck to kill every yr. on land a bunch of people are pounding even though they say there are no bucks there I was still able to pass up 16 different bucks before killing a nice 8 point last yr. And for the last 4 consecutive yrs as far as that gos. So I just smile and nod when people say there arent any bucks around. If AR's come then good, maybe I can pass on 30 deer then, but if they dont come no biggy. Your success will come with how much time and effort you put into the hunt anyhow.

[erussell]

Ya know, This statement makes me think about something. Do you think there are actually freezer fillers that purposely look to kill buttons and 2" spikes cause they know they can through the antlerless on it?

Legal under NY state law so dosnt bother me. I dont think I have ever seen a 2inch spiker before though.

[growalot]

Actually I only quoted what jumped out at me and I wanted to comment on...to be honest the whole of your response was to a guy that didn't want AR's to "water down" his hunting efforts by seeing more bigger bucks...

So I wasn't TRYING to cherry pick...I'm saying that even if there are bigger bucks in an area a hunter may feel obliged to say... We don't have many...ect ect and was forced to shoot a smaller one...That would be the vague reason....I mean who wants to be labeled a bad conservationist because they actually chose to take a small buck do to what ever reason?.....Not saying you said the following but lets see....he's the reason we don't have big buck...or if he really knew how to hunt ...or... Ya I passed several of those...I've listened to some nasty statements hunters say to one another and it's uncalled for....Why force some one to come up for a reason they shot what they did other than that's the hunt they wanted?

With all this though...you never answered the rest of my quote...Where are all these NO BIG buck areas?...pics tell different .....and as I said I've seen pretty big buck coming out of all areas of NY...Ya know it's reminds me of the neighbor ...They have claimed that this hill has no doe left...Yet because I'm out there every day...I see dozens during season...Ppl see what they want..... reality is different...they don't believe in Doe shooting and they see no doe....some guys don't have time or perhaps in some cases..lets say patients.... better than saying skill...So they don't see big buck often or every...so every one should have to hunt the way they want.... to accommodate them?...

You say it's only good conservation...but not...Just like all the QDM guys said shoot all the doe it's only good conservation...Oppps not...and I can... won't... go through and send you to videos of those guys backing out of that stance...Charles A is one of them...Drury's another......The latest greats "plan" out there..... problem is when it's a state Forced plan...it's much harder to back out of then the personal approach many hunters are adopting on their own

Edited July 16, 2012 by growalot

[bubba]

Legal under NY state law so dosnt bother me. I dont think I have ever seen a 2inch spiker before though.

hey the light came on. I have said I forget how many times, if button bucks continue to be killed as they are with an antlerless tag, AR is silly. It is ok to kill it as button buck (basically fawn) but next year as a spike or crotch horn, it has ot walk. More people will just kill them as button bucks. If then never get a chance to grow a set of antlers, they will never get a chance to become a big buck.

[WNYBuckHunter]

a moratorium on doe permits for a few years.

Do you have any idea what that would do, especially in some areas? Deer hunting is a tool to control the population. Thats all it is, the rest is ancillary.

[mbucks27]

How can you say that I am a lowlife poacher. Every deer I have taged with my own tags and legal. I have not nor will I ever take an illegal deer. You don't know me and have no right to make a statement like that. I am 68 years old and have been hunting for 56 years and 52 years for deer . There was a time when a hunter in NY could take 5 bucks if he had the tags and could and find them.

I can leagally take 4 bucks in New York every year. I can take one upstate with bow one upstate with gun. Then if i get 2 1c doe permits (long island) which are guaranteed i can shoot two does and get two more either sex tags for 1c long island.

John

[growalot]

Do you have any idea what that would do, especially in some areas? Deer hunting is a tool to control the population. Thats all it is, the rest is ancillary.

I don't believe that...it should all be on an equal playing field as far as importance...but with in a real world realistic goals...this 1:1 is just bupkiss.... in a real world application.....There are too many variables to be able to control and unless they are in inclosed areas....whether 100 or 500 acres with limited pressures...such as predation and vehicle...car or farm kills...diet...stress...ect ect...

Your right though in some areas not killing doe would have a huge impact...in a negative way...JUST like killing too many can have the same effect...unfortunately hunting has left the realm of just deer population and has become linked to States financial health...tourism is building around a states hunting / fishing opportunities far more than in the past...it's become big business..and one can try to dress it up under the guise of pure herd health ..but it's a thin vail at best..

[Meat Hunter]

All I have to say is....for the ppl that claim NYS doesn't have big bucks...they need to subscribe to NY Outdoor News.......