head shots

[erussell]

I was just talking to my buddy the other day and he said he was walking by a window during bow season and looked out in his yrd.There was a big buck walking around in circles in his back yrd and to his amazement it went down kicked a little and died. He tossed on his boots and ran out to it. It ended up being a ten point. He looked all over the deer couldnt find a wound. But while checking the rack out he noticed some blood on the head and something sticking out between its eyes. It ended up being the threads to a broadhead which was lodged inside the bucks skull. Some bone head had taken a headshot with a bow and the deer had made it into his yrd and died. He called around to neighbors and asked if they knew who did it but no one fessed up.

[cwhite]

2nd don't compare a police officer firearms ...with someone who is a die hard hunter...most police hardly ever shoot there weapon, only to qualify...and most glocks shoot like **** you can't compare to a long gun......

now if you want to talk swat sniper that is a whole different monster

Not sure where you get the most officer statistic from because all the officers I know fire there weapons several hundred times a year. This includes long guns. How often do you think the average die hard hunter fires theirs? I shoot my rifle anywhere from 8-10 times a year. Police are taught center mass (center of largest target available to shoot at) because that is the most effective at stopping a threat.

I have taken upper neck shots on a deer at less than 25 yards. Mostly because they were too close and I wasn't able to dial down my scope. I couldn't tell where I was exactly on the body so the only accurate shot I had was the upper neck and head. I prefer 3-4 ribs behind the shoulder on a doe. Dead within 100 yards and nothing ruined at all.

[KEVA]

Like cwhite said, cops do not aim for vitals but center mass and shoot until the threat no longer exists. But if talking about cops is not a rabbit trail, I do not know what is...

Personally, never understood the purpose of the head shot. Yea, I know you are not ruining meat that way, but the ribs seem like the better target if your not wanting to ruin meat. Several have mentioned only head shooting at a close distance, once again this eludes me. More likely to be accurate, but the error potential of a few inches seems troublesome at any range. Just my opinion, not well enough versed in the subject to hold head shooting against some one (except those who don't think it through thoroughly like some weekend warriors). I wait for a broadside shot and aim behind the shoulder. If this shot does not present itself there is always tomorrow!

Oh, but anyone who takes head shots with a bow is off their rocker . Just need a tad of common sense to figure that one out.

[Elmo]

Comparing cops and hunters is dumb because they do not relate at all.

#1. Cops are taught to shoot center mass because it is the largest target and helps avoid over penetration.

#2. Cops are not trying to "kill" the target in a human fashion. They're goal is to neutralize the threat like KEVA mentioned.

#3. The deer doesn't shoot back at the cop. If passes up on the shot because he/she feels they don't have the right shot, there is a possibility they can die.

#4. Police snipers in a hostage situation are taught to shoot straight on at the nose. The nose is made of cartlidge and not hard bone so it won't deflect bullets as easily. Also, the bullet will then travel to the back of the head and destroy the base of the brain where it connects to the spine and where the medulla oblongata is located. Destroying either of those two drops you on the spot. You can live with portion of your brain destroyed. Most recent example, Gabrielle Giffords. Another example is the lobotomy clinics where people use to be able to walk into, have a doctor scrape away the front of your brain with an ice pick, and walk back to work all under 15 minutes.

Finally, I'm going to follow the rabbit trail to the hole. You can train all you want for any situation. You can "simulate" any situation as many times as you want. None of them will EVER come close to the real thing because you know in the back of your mind, if you fail, you'll just try the simulation again. Not in the real world. In the real world, you're shittin' in your pants.

If I put you in a dark warehouse, give you a pistol, and tell you that there are a couple of guys hiding in there that are out to kill you...you're going to tell me going to hit bulls eye on a split second decision? No. What I imagine is the moment you hear any noise behind you, you're going to jump and start shooting in the direction of the noise. Point is cops are human and they have fears. If a cop has his gun drawn on you, my advice is don't make an rapid movements, and definitely don't jump out of the shadows and yell "boo"!

Edited November 29, 2012 by Elmo

[the blur]

They specifly tell you in hunters ed class, where to shoot, and where NOT to shoot.

[Doc]

It just might be that this thread has uncovered why you hear so many shots and see so few deer actually being pulled out of the woods .... lol. Seems like some guys are passing up the much larger target for a tiny lower percentage target. Sounds more like an ego thing than a meat thing.

[Paula]

It just might be that this thread has uncovered why you hear so many shots and see so few deer actually being pulled out of the woods .... lol. Seems like some guys are passing up the much larger target for a tiny lower percentage target. Sounds more like an ego thing than a meat thing.

Doc, think i agree with you.

[pistolp71]

What meat do you "head shot" hunters not want to waste? Theres little to no usable meat on the ribs and aim above the heart if you want to save it if you're such a good shot that your shooting it in the head. Why risk it by taking a shot like that?

X2.

[ants]

X3 Right through the ribs = dead deer + no wasted meat.

[Robinson446]

My grandpa does, for the simple fact that he doesnt want to track them because he cant get around like he use to. Everytime he shoots them in the head.

[Five Seasons]

Im playing too many video games? If you have a doe and shoot for the head and you move a bit or she does its most likely going to be a clean miss. I didnt say I like to do it because its fun, I said you dont ruin any meat and the odds of wounding the deer are small. And im not saying take a head shot at a moving deer, free hand or even a semi long shot. WNY let me get some of that popcorn lol

what's odd is that i've never ruined any meat with a double lung shot...

somehow I don't see the connection between police training and deer hunting............

my point was they teach you to aim for the target with the highest probability and stopping power.

OK

1st. I don't play video games....and I really don't like people that do

2nd don't compare a police officer firearms ...with someone who is a die hard hunter...most police hardly ever shoot there weapon, only to qualify...and most glocks shoot like **** you can't compare to a long gun......

now if you want to talk swat sniper that is a whole different monster

3rd....I I can't tell you how many deer I put down someone shot in the A** or shot in the leg....a bad shot is a bad shot whether you shoot the head or the ribcage

but hell what do I know.....

I hang my deer by the neck, and shoot 50 yards with my bow

1, you dont like me because i spend an hour on my saturdary morning relaxing and shooting zombies in my living room? I'm a horrible person without a good job and family because of this?

2. We can talk snipers too, ask how many head shots they're trained to take when a vital shot is also present

3. sounds like you're a bad shot. I've shot plenty of deer and never shot one in the ass. Worst I had was my first bow kill (at 20 yards) that was guts but was lucky enough to nick an artery. Have a missed outright? sure. twice. happens.

Finally, I'm going to follow the rabbit trail to the hole. You can train all you want for any situation. You can "simulate" any situation as many times as you want. None of them will EVER come close to the real thing because you know in the back of your mind, if you fail, you'll just try the simulation again. Not in the real world. In the real world, you're shittin' in your pants.

this is what i tell most new bowhunters. practice is great and still greatly encouraged but there's nothing that can prepare you as a bowhunter for that 10 point walking out and giving you a broadside shot. knees wobbling, chest thumping, sphincter tightening haha

Edited November 29, 2012 by Belo

[WNYBuckHunter]

3. sounds like you're a bad shot. I've shot plenty of deer and never shot one in the ass. Worst I had was my first bow kill (at 20 yards) that was guts but was lucky enough to nick an artery. Have a missed outright? sure. twice. happens.

He never said he shot a deer in the ass

[Five Seasons]

He never said he shot a deer in the ass

you're right. i misread that. my bad.

[dbHunterNY]

least meat loss is in the head but it had to be perfect conditions. i've only done that once at 106 yards. i never aim for the neck. i've seen deer go down hit there but i still don't. i cut up my own deer. lots of meat on the neck that can go into ground venison or slow cooked and separated from connective tissues and what not. feasibly the least meat loss would be to shoot a deer through both lungs, avoiding the heart, liver, and any meat in the shoulder. can run a little ways though, but they'll make it much less if you can put a second round in the same area. done that many times. i usually end up taking out the heart with a bow just because i'm aiming for bottom 1/3 in case the deer reacts to the shot by loading up it's legs. that's my thoughts anyway.

Edited November 29, 2012 by dbHunterNY

[dbHunterNY]

I have taken several does with head/ neck shots under 150 yards with bipod. To avoid the jaw shot i only take the shot with the deer straight on. Shoot low and still take them through the neck and spine. I have always dropped them right where they stand without problem

not saying this is wrong or right. just telling a true story....

my dad shot a buck in this same way but the bullet ended up getting up in it's sinuses... between the hide and its nose bridge part of the skull. deer just stood their shaking its head. he shot again and put it down. that was using a 30-06 150gr soft point cor-lokt.

[Doc]

I still recall the deer that I heard wheezing and gasping for air a bunch of years back. I put her down in a mercy killing. When I got up to her, I could see that her windpipe had been blown apart by a neck shot. Her attempts at breathing were causing a super loud rasping wheeze that I could hear long before I could see her. there was almost no blood at all, so I have no idea how long she might have had to live that way if I hadn't have coincidentally been there at that particular time. Again, looking at the pictures in the Deer Anatomy thread it is amazing how much area in the neck is not immediately lethal.

[shawnhu]

not saying this is wrong or right. just telling a true story....

my dad shot a buck in this same way but the bullet ended up getting up in it's sinuses... between the hide and its nose bridge part of the skull. deer just stood their shaking its head. he shot again and put it down. that was using a 30-06 150gr soft point cor-lokt.

That's really weird, a 30-06 should blast right through the head, it got lodged in there?

[Elmo]

That's really weird, a 30-06 should blast right through the head, it got lodged in there?

Seriously. Something must be wrong with that particular cartridge. Powder didn't burn all the way? A 30.06 going through the sinus should have blasted a hole through the back of the deer's head.

[shawnhu]

Seen one enter the nostril and exit the rear jaw. Pretty sure the softpoint didn't fully expand yet either.

[arrow nocker]

there is no meat wasted if you hit it in the rib cage.Heart/lungs area.I don't know why this gets asked every year.If yo can hit the head,you can hit the heart.If you question your shooting ability and want a kill or clean miss you shouldn't be shooting.Hit the heart.You owe the animal that much at least.

[shawnhu]

Heart shot = slower more painful death. Headshot = instant death. Easy choice ain't it? Totally different for bow though, but anyone capable should consider all options.

[ncountry]

In my early hunting years, I hunted with a 308 reloaded with 47 gr 4064 powder and 125 gr siera boat-tails. It was an older Mauser action that someone had done a lot of work on "glass bedding and the works". I lucked out and picked it up cheap and it was my 1st gun and only gun for years. Never missed ..lol.. In those days I shot most of the deer in the neck (spinal region) .Always resulted in an instantly downed deer that never moved again. I think ,due to the "explosiveness" of the light bullet and high speeds this was very effective. Now that I have moved on to different gun/s and do not practice anywhere near as much as in the past I have moved on to the behind the shoulder shots, a lot bigger target ..lol.

[Elmo]

Here's the way I see it. Assuming you're a competent shooter. The double lung/heart shot is a very large target and will have 100% success rate of the deer expiring within 1/2 hour. The head shot has a 95% success rate but it's an instant death. 5% chance the deer walks off wounded and dies a very slow death.

I equate the 5% to the brain being a small target encase in a thick skull AND it's not enough to damage the brain. You have to specifically damage the medulla oblongata (the part of the brain that controls the bodily functions). All it takes is a twig here, a gust of wind there, and flinch to knock your aim off an inch or two and the difference is instant death and a deer with a shatter skull, it's left brain hemisphere ruptured and it running several miles and dying several hours later.

You can hunt for years and the odds can always be in your favor but let's not deny the fact that you are playing those odds.

Would I take a head shot? I hunt with a 12 gauge or a 308. The hydraulic shock from those rounds increases my chance a bit. Yes, at 50 yards and under with those calibers, I can live with those odds. But only if a double lung shot isn't available.

Now I'm not going to sit here and tell others which choice they should make because honestly, I don't know myself which is the right choice. None of us do. I'm just saying is just realize you're making a deciding between 100% slower death versus instant death with a small chance of failure.

[erussell]

Heart shot = slower more painful death. Headshot = instant death. Easy choice ain't it? Totally different for bow though, but anyone capable should consider all options.

Heart shot = no more blood pumping to brain and instant death with a bullet. Doe I shot this yr with 240 grain xtp hollow point from the smokepole, dropped on the spot. Centered her right through the heart and she died just as fast as the three deer I have head shot. I prefer double lung and heart, heard to many horror stories of guys taking hero shots and them not turning out like they expected it to. I no longer consider the head a viable option. If you keep it in the ribs you wont waste any meat. Take your time and aim. If you can hit a small target like a head you should have no problem with the vitals. Guys waste meat because they rush the shot and spine the deer or they shoot them through the shoulders and need a follow up shot. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast!!!

Edited November 30, 2012 by erussell

[Five Seasons]

Heart shot = slower more painful death. Headshot = instant death. Easy choice ain't it? Totally different for bow though, but anyone capable should consider all options.

bahahah

Would I take a head shot? I hunt with a 12 gauge or a 308. The hydraulic shock from those rounds increases my chance a bit. Yes, at 50 yards and under with those calibers, I can live with those odds. But only if a double lung shot isn't available.

probably the best advice here. only take it if you dont have the later. And I hope nobody takes neck shots to save meat over the heart/lungs. I love me a slow cooked neck roast in the crock pot.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Belo