Who wants Yearling Buck Protection with ARs in their area?

[KenAxe-7]

....says the clown trying to push their personal standards on everyone else....

You see me pushing anything? I simply made a statement.

[KenAxe-7]

I would rather see someone take a doe than a spike or crotch. Self control is needed but most of us don't have it. I have shot my share of young bucks but realized early on that it is just as easy as shooting a doe.

[WNYBuckHunter]

You see me pushing anything? I simply made a statement.

Yes, you want ARs statewide because anyone shooting something less than your standard is a "clown". Thats about as plain of a case of wanting to push your standards on others as it gets.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wrong again Steve.. for your information the biggest lobbies for the yearling buck protection are the QDMA and NYS Deer Management Coalition... they were instrumental in getting the AR's into the areas where they now exist in NY and are working directly with the DEC in doing so. They are also behind the current push for AR's in Central NY...Jeremy Hurst's comments were the least considered when looking at yearling buck protection in NY. You being the armchair informant with no real knowledge of the truth is what fuels the ignorance... also for the record the lead person heading up the push in NY for yearling buck protection which got the ball rolling in the AR WMU's is also the President of the NYS QDMA Chapter. Another example of feeding BS without knowing what the reality is... so the point you made many times on various threads... is the same misinformed point you made here and is truly the "complete nonsense".

Who are you refereing to as the "NYS QDMA Chapter" President? I have no knowledge of a NYS chapter. I know the Hudson Valley chapter was in support of the AR's down there but as far as I know the Central NY chapter is inactive. Do you have information contrary to that?

[KenAxe-7]

Yes, you want ARs statewide because anyone shooting something less than your standard is a "clown". Thats about as plain of a case of wanting to push your standards on others as it gets.

I simply stated my opinion. I set no standards only stated that there are clowns out there that shoot the 1st deer they see. Seems I hit a nerve with you. Are you one of those clowns that has no confidence in his hunting abilities and takes the 1st chance he gets? Is that your biggest buck in your 39 years on this earth? (your profile pic). Do you keep a box of kleenex close by for when you start crying over someones statements?

Don't start an argument over a statement made on the internet. I simply answered the topics question, without going into detail about my beliefs on AR's. I added the clown statement because I see it way too much. Then the same people complain that they don't see any big, mature bucks.

[Paula]

I am one of the clowns, no shame here

[SteveB]

I would rather see someone take a doe than a spike or crotch.

What is the difference if they shoot a 1.5 if it has 6+pt's instead of a crotch or fork?

You must have missed my questions to you on post #199?

[phade]

I simply stated my opinion. I set no standards only stated that there are clowns out there that shoot the 1st deer they see. Seems I hit a nerve with you. Are you one of those clowns that has no confidence in his hunting abilities and takes the 1st chance he gets? Is that your biggest buck in your 39 years on this earth? (your profile pic). Do you keep a box of kleenex close by for when you start crying over someones statements?

Don't start an argument over a statement made on the internet. I simply answered the topics question, without going into detail about my beliefs on AR's. I added the clown statement because I see it way too much. Then the same people complain that they don't see any big, mature bucks.

Wow.

AR is a standard that not all agree with. Calling hunters who follow laws, etc. clowns? Grow-up.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I simply stated my opinion. I set no standards only stated that there are clowns out there that shoot the 1st deer they see. Seems I hit a nerve with you. Are you one of those clowns that has no confidence in his hunting abilities and takes the 1st chance he gets? Is that your biggest buck in your 39 years on this earth? (your profile pic). Do you keep a box of kleenex close by for when you start crying over someones statements?

Don't start an argument over a statement made on the internet. I simply answered the topics question, without going into detail about my beliefs on AR's. I added the clown statement because I see it way too much. Then the same people complain that they don't see any big, mature bucks.

Yes, that is my biggest buck to date. I passed a bunch of smaller ones this past season before I took him. He makes me happy and I actually dont care what anyone else thinks of him.

Im not 39 years old, not sure where you get that.

Yes, it does strike a nerve with me when others want to force their standards on the rest of the people out there. No box of tissues here, but I will express how I feel about it to whomever I choose, whenever I choose. How I feel about people that belittle others for not living up to their personal standards is that they are usually arrogant, self centered and egotistical. No better than the people telling us what kind of guns we should be able to own.

BTW, I saw multiple 3 1/2 year old or better bucks this past season. Came to full draw on a couple of them, had a few others within range, just couldnt seal the deal. Im not complaining, or saying id like everyone to live up to my standards.

[Single_shot]

Yes, that is my biggest buck to date. I passed a bunch of smaller ones this past season before I took him. He makes me happy and I actually dont care what anyone else thinks of him.

Im not 39 years old, not sure where you get that.

Yes, it does strike a nerve with me when others want to force their standards on the rest of the people out there. No box of tissues here, but I will express how I feel about it to whomever I choose, whenever I choose. How I feel about people that belittle others for not living up to their personal standards is that they are usually arrogant, self centered and egotistical. No better than the people telling us what kind of guns we should be able to own.

BTW, I saw multiple 3 1/2 year old or better bucks this past season. Came to full draw on a couple of them, had a few others within range, just couldnt seal the deal. Im not complaining, or saying id like everyone to live up to my standards.

AMEN!

[KenAxe-7]

What is the difference if they shoot a 1.5 if it has 6+pt's instead of a crotch or fork?

You must have missed my questions to you on post #199?

What I am hoping for is that people will be forced to judge the deer. Not only on antler size but age also.

My opinion is that our seasons and regulations need an overhaul. The rifle season up here in the northern tier is way too long(my opinion). I would personally like to see a longer archery season and a much shorter rifle season (Just what I have taken from hunting in Illinois on a non-managed farm). I would also like to see proper animal judging taught in our hunter ed courses (which, in my opinion, are not sufficient).

Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

[KenAxe-7]

Wow.

AR is a standard that not all agree with. Calling hunters who follow laws, etc. clowns? Grow-up.

LOL. No shit Sherlock. If we all ageed we wouldn't be having this discussion. The clowns are the ones that shoot the 1st one they see and complain about not seeing any big bucks.(should have clarified that on my 1st response) I am sure we all know someone who falls into this category. Maybe you are one of them. I don't know and don't care.

I compare consistantly shooting small deer, because you have no faith in your abilities or are just too lazy to go find the big boys, to working a thankless, deadend job and shooting them from the road is like climbing under your bosses desk to get that raise. People that know you know that you cheated and you would have never put the actual work in to get ahead and you have absolutely nothing to brag about.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It is right up there with stumbling on a few nice bucks and thinking you are the great white hunter of the north. A broken clock is right twice a day.

[phade]

LOL. No shit Sherlock. If we all ageed we wouldn't be having this discussion. The clowns are the ones that shoot the 1st one they see and complain about not seeing any big bucks.(should have clarified that on my 1st response) I am sure we all know someone who falls into this category. Maybe you are one of them. I don't know and don't care.

I compare consistantly shooting small deer, because you have no faith in your abilities or are just too lazy to go find the big boys, to working a thankless, deadend job and shooting them from the road is like climbing under your bosses desk to get that raise. People that know you know that you cheated and you would have never put the actual work in to get ahead and you have absolutely nothing to brag about.

You fail at reading comprehension. You said you were not pressing your standards, but then say you want AR. AR is a standard (apparently yours on others), and it's one not everyone agrees on. Hello pot, meet kettle.

Throwing accusations out there like that (saying WNYB is a clown, that I may be a clown) is pretty poor judgement just because my (or possibly his as well) view doesn't jive with yours. If you want to call me a clown, go for it. I'm a clown that supports people choosing what THEY want to shoot. You post pictures like it is some kind of measuring stick to make you an authority and justify your prowess is more important than other hunter's ability to choose. I'm this site's resident Ego, but one that ultimately respects everyone else's right to do as they see fit, even if I disagree and think it is stupid. You voiced your opinion and its one I respect as a mature buck hunter. I just think it's stupid.

I don't need AR to kill mature bucks on mediocre ground. Nobody does.

Edited January 21, 2013 by phade

[growalot]

Well I must be a clown...pics below all first bucks I saw...2 during gun seasons and one during bow...and I complain every year...never see any big buck on my cams....So what!... I still don't want AR's across the state...my fellow hunters can decide what a trophy is or isn't and I can be happy for them...

[growalot]

Now here are some that weren't the first I saw and definitely not the biggest...but they are still my trophies for reasons you probably wouldn't ever understand...and I'd hope my fellow hunters would be just as happy for me on clean kills and recoveries....I'd ask if you got the point but I know you don't

[Paula]

Well I must be a clown...pics below all first bucks I saw...2 during gun seasons and one during bow...and I complain every year...never see any big buck on my cams....So what!... I still don't want AR's across the state...my fellow hunters can decide what a trophy is or isn't and I can be happy for them...

Nice deer growie

[growalot]

Thanks Paula...that second group of pics are my "firsts"....First bow deer...first deer off new property and first rifle deer at camp...all trophies..

[phade]

Thanks Paula...that second group of pics are my "firsts"....First bow deer...first deer off new property and first rifle deer at camp...all trophies..

Best way to start off. Can't imagine being required to have trigger restraint, even with youth exclusions. Nothing is better for foundational hunting experience than bloodletting.

[josephmrtn]

I think Kip Adams summed it up beautifuly last night, during the Q&A he said even if we would have manditory AR's he thinks within 5 years they would be usless... because more and more hunters are self imposing AR's and letting the little guys walk and also are looking for not only bigger but also more mature bucks... we really dont need them he said... were doing the right thing allready, letting little ones walk and waiting for older bigger bucks.... Larry, Rob or John you guys can correct me if i missunderstood him...

and I am also one of the "clowns" since my first buck (last year) was only a 1.5yr old 5pt....

Call me whatever you want im proud of my buck...

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think Kip Adams summed it up beautifuly last night, during the Q&A he said even if we would have manditory AR's he thinks within 5 years they would be usless... because more and more hunters are self imposing AR's and letting the little guys walk and also are looking for not only bigger but also more mature bucks... we really dont need them he said... were doing the right thing allready, letting little ones walk and waiting for older bigger bucks.... Larry, Rob or John you guys can correct me if i missunderstood him...

and I am also one of the "clowns" since my first buck (last year) was only a 1.5yr old 5pt....

Call me whatever you want im proud of my buck...

You are right in what he said Joseph, but he also added we still have a way to go. we are trending down in 1.5 year old take but as a state we are still higher than the national average and most states. What we do have in this state that many whitetail states don't is a very large are with no doe permits and limited doe take during archery. Those areas really provide the challenge in our state. hard to tell a guy to buy a license and not shoot what might be the only buch they see. I didn't get a chance to ask Kip about areas in other states and how they handle this challenge.

[josephmrtn]

yeah he deff had some good points for all of us

[Five Seasons]

belo you need to stop hiding behind the ar curtain and admit that you will shoot any damn deer that comes infront of you ....." I have never made any attempt to hide the fact that i'm a horn hunter. So long as I have some venison in the freezer,"....." i know it seems hypocritical but i couldn't be picky this year with the birth of my son. He was still a nice 150lb. deer. And 15 seconds later out stepped a big 9" this agrivates me more than ar's themselves people who push them because they can not control themselves while hunting. it goes back to nyantlers remarks of people talking the talk but not walking the walk. if you want to shoot big deer do it don't shoot the little ones weather you have meat in the freezer or not. your "young and financally successfull" your family won't die if you don't take a deer. your pride will most certainly take a hit though seeing your this great white hunter who will harp on others for things you do yourself. i'm glad you harvested your buck just as im gald for everyones deer harvests this year . but do yourself a favor and admit you took that deer because you wanted too not because of the birth of your son but because you wanted to shoot that deer. the same as i wanted to shoot my deer. that simple it will give you more credability with many on the board i would presume......

looks like I have a fan. This is the first sub 8 point I've taken in 7 years. I told you why I took it. It was my 3rd morning in the woods, the wife was already getting cranky. Sure, I didn't have to take him, but I did as it was legal. I can totally control myself. Do it every year. I took this deer because I could and I did.

by the way. Spell check is your friend. Use it bud.

[phade]

You are right in what he said Joseph, but he also added we still have a way to go. we are trending down in 1.5 year old take but as a state we are still higher than the national average and most states. What we do have in this state that many whitetail states don't is a very large are with no doe permits and limited doe take during archery. Those areas really provide the challenge in our state. hard to tell a guy to buy a license and not shoot what might be the only buch they see. I didn't get a chance to ask Kip about areas in other states and how they handle this challenge.

The answer to that is they don't do anything different, really. I don't think there is a state out there east of the Mississippi with such a vast area similar to that description in land size. In that part of NY, it really is the proving ground, and its a reason most people refer to it as "great challenge for a wily mature buck." Remember, all of the National Parks out west would fit within the AP. It's very unique in a sense.

More and More, NY should be broken and managed into threes - Western/Central, Dacks, and Catskills on downstate (with distinctions for LI, etc.). Heck, I'd even go for two, including the Dacks and W/C NY if NYC and it's surrounding counties let us form West New York state, lol.

[Five Seasons]

What if we could eliminate the people shooting button bucks each season? Think about how many more 1.5yr olds we would produce each yr, then how many of those turn into 2.5yr olds? Add that into our current buck population and I think we have a better adult buck herd and more mature bucks!! Here are the DEC Stats,

Antlerless Take

(fawns and adult does)

5yr avg 113,668

Buck Fawns in Antlerless Take

5yr avg 17.8%

Maybe if we start making people tag button bucks with their buck tags those numbers will decrease? Just a though.

the issue with bb's is that at a distance or to the uneducated hunter it's not so easy to spot. 18 years old, 3rd season in the woods i shot what i thought would be a delicious small doe. Very small nubs. I've seen some bb's with big mounds on their heads. I think antlerless is tough to inforce because it's hard to determine for the inexperienced hunter. And then what do you do when you take an illegal bb? In turn, I made this same point with wny... what are the ARs? spread? points? i for one rarely count points when my heart is pumping and I'm ready to take a deer. Generally I take a quick look at the spread and you can tell.

the deer i remember the most was a spike, it was my first deer and it was when i found out my father inlaw didn't hate me. focus on habitat, habitat, habitat.

I would never vote for ARs for youth. Doesn't PA have this or something similar in place?

Edited January 22, 2013 by Belo