Successful in NY? That's saying something...

[phade]

Recently released info from QDMA's Whitetail Report show NY ranks higher than several known hunter-heavy states (think Michigan) in terms of hunter numbers and sq/mi.

So, it ain't easy, NY. Be proud of your accomplishments. It's only a matter of time before people come from NY that take a route like the Eberharts/Vale, etc. who hunt the "heavy pressure MI land"....seeing as how shooting a mature buck in NY can be viewed as more difficult when based on these measurements.

Interesting to see WI and Ohio on the sq/mi list...with the caliber of bucks they take on a macro level, it makes one wonder what is possible in NY.

Top-5 States

2011 Number of Hunters

Texas 1,147,000

Pennsylvania 933,000

Wisconsin 895,000

New York 823,000

Michigan 648,000

Top-5 States

2011 Hunters/Square Mile

Pennsylvania 20.3

Rhode Island 16.5

New York 15.1

Wisconsin 13.7

Ohio 12.3

[G-Man]

Thats exactly why, you can't compare ny to midwestern states. Here you my have 1 hunter on 20 acres there 1 on 400. No wonder they can pass the little ones, and wait for a big one one. Pressure here forces many bucks nocturnal, there 0 pressure means more daylight movement.. i trophy buck here is something to truly be proud of!

[dbHunterNY]

there's enough genetics and high quality food here to produce big bucks. QDMA just hasn't kicked in here yet. many still shoot at 1.5 and 2.5 years old. heck the deer are only a third of a the way through their life to reach maximum potential. Age structure is NY's number one killer of hunting quality deer.

[phade]

Thats exactly why, you can't compare ny to midwestern states. Here you my have 1 hunter on 20 acres there 1 on 400. No wonder they can pass the little ones, and wait for a big one one. Pressure here forces many bucks nocturnal, there 0 pressure means more daylight movement.. i trophy buck here is something to truly be proud of!

No, but states like Ohio/Wisconsin can be, and they're top 5 or 10 states.

Ohio is more apples to apples to NY than most people believe. It has one half that is a producer and one half that is less of one...much like NY, and it get's top 5 pressure per sq/mi.

[phade]

there's enough genetics and high quality food here to produce big bucks. QDMA just hasn't kicked in here yet. many still shoot at 1.5 and 2.5 years old. heck the deer are only a third of a the way through their life to reach maximum potential. Age structure is NY's number one killer of hunting quality deer.

If the QDMA ever kicks in here, I'll be happy, because then I wouldn't need to relocate to Athens, GA for a job offer, ha.

I suspect you mean QDM?

[boo711]

Qdm would be great for this state. I would love every buck in the woods to be a trophy. But I also know if I see a nice 6,7, or 8 pointer walking my way, that is a good size deer I am going to put the meat in my freezer. And I know quite a few other guts who feel that way to. I use that meat to feed my family, 1 or 2 less things I need to buy at the store per week. If people want truly trophy bucks they need to do a state wide antler restriction. Nothing less than a 6 pt;

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Qdm would be great for this state. I would love every buck in the woods to be a trophy. But I also know if I see a nice 6,7, or 8 pointer walking my way, that is a good size deer I am going to put the meat in my freezer. And I know quite a few other guts who feel that way to. I use that meat to feed my family, 1 or 2 less things I need to buy at the store per week. If people want truly trophy bucks they need to do a state wide antler restriction. Nothing less than a 6 pt;

Again...another with the atate wide crap?

you talk about the benefit of taking a deer or 2 to put in the freezer and then in the next breath want AR's to limit those in areas without doe permits?

Edited January 30, 2013 by Culvercreek hunt club

[13BVET]

How in the hell did a "hunter numbers per state" thread turn into yet another AR thread?!

[G-Man]

I travel back and forth to ohio, several big differences,,1. All land is posted you need written permission to be on it regardless if signs are up or not, (and is enforced heavily by a game commission that is separate from the political whims of the politicians of the state, very unlike ny.) Creating lots of sanctuary areas for the deer population. 2. Gun season is very short. 3. 1 buck limit. 4 many large farms that consist of 100's of acres of open farm fields and small woodlots where deer concentrated after crops are cut. Nowhere near the pressure most lands in ny see. Farm sizes are larger in general. Ny 50 acres your a land barron, 200 or more is common in ohio. Let get the dec seperate from the politics of the the state and let them control the game in nys.

[growalot]

Age structure is NY's number one killer of hunting quality deer.

You best be speaking for your self there...because every single clean kill I've had in NYS was a quality deer hunt and to me a quality deer

[phade]

. I hunt Ohio. They have slightly less hunters per square mile. if they can manage better hunting with similar pressure, that goes to show how the mgmt here is faulty to a degree.

[jersey guy]

last year i spent $900 on non resident fees for me and 2sons hard to pass on a nice 6pt just my 2 cents

[WesternNY]

Qdm would be great for this state. I would love every buck in the woods to be a trophy. But I also know if I see a nice 6,7, or 8 pointer walking my way, that is a good size deer I am going to put the meat in my freezer. And I know quite a few other guts who feel that way to. I use that meat to feed my family, 1 or 2 less things I need to buy at the store per week. If people want truly trophy bucks they need to do a state wide antler restriction. Nothing less than a 6 pt;

I avoid most of these discussions because the quickly get ugly and I am highly associated with the QDMA.

I just want to say a few things.

1) nothing less than a 6pt may save some 1.5 year old bucks but it is not going to impact the entire state. Too many 1.5 year olds would still be harvested. This is the biggest problem with AR's/age restrictions. It is difficult to have harvest guidelines to save 1.5 year olds that can be easily incorporated by the average 1 weekend a year hunter. I happen to use 2.5 or better on my farm, I have increased my harvest goal to 3.5, I have a friend who hunts. He has a hard time aging bucks so for him it is 8 or better. These are not perfect but are a starting point.

2) NY's buck harvest consists of 54% 1.5 year old bucks. If we could get that to 40% you would see a difference in the age structure in MOST parts of the state. We (the GRST QDMA Branch) hopes to help with this goal through education and choice not manadorty anything at this point.

3) Statewide Age/antler restrictions will not work, the state is too large and differs heavily on the number and quality of deer. I can not expect a hunter who feeds his family to pass on 1.5 year olds in areas that do not have doe permits and or have poor deer numbers.

4) Trophy... QDM is not trophy management. QDM has alot to offer all hunters with it's biggest impact is trying to encourage hunters to be managers rather than just consumers. I would guess over 60% of the NY hunters have no idea of the good work the QDMA does for each and everyone of us, because they assume it is all about trophies.

NY in general has great potential as others have mentioned, but it is going to take a majority of us to rethink our harvest goals.

[Carbonelement]

if people would just use common sense and not shoot young deer it would be better. Any area that has doe permits shatters the excuse for meat hunters. Shoot the doe and let the little bucks grow up. It is obvious when you see an older mature buck...not just the rack size. I have no problem with guys shooting a 3.5 year old or older scrub buck. The thing is hunters are just lazy, they do not want to put the time in. No one here can say that yearling bucks are not the easiest deer to harvest in the woods. The practically sprint to any call and if you break the law and bait they will be on it all day. Why not pass them? Put some time and effort in and harvest mature bucks and doe? JMHO Id rather shoot nothing than a young buck.

EDIT As far as the hunter who "needs" the deer meat why not just work for the amount of time you sit in the woods and not buy a hunting licensee. the money would add up and you would be able to buy plenty of meat.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Carbonelement

[Guns&ReligionCop]

What people forget is things are always different from state to state but that doesn't mean deer management isn't a good thing it just means it also will vary. I don't remember who it was that said you don't hunt the biggest deer you hunt the biggest deer in your area.

[SplitG2]

Ohio is managed much better than NY.

[SplitG2]

There a many good bucks in NY just harder to hunt.

[boo711]

I used to work but my company closed. Just started going back to school to finish my degree so that is why I didn't just buy extra at the store. And it wasn't that I "need" the meat. Just have a family who truly enjoys it. And I truly enjoy hunting. And I don't pay for a licence. Bought a lifetime when they came out. Wasnt trying to stir the pot. I wouldn't shoot a spike or 4 pt for example. But wouldn't pass on a nice 6 or 8 either was basically what I was meaning.

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I I wouldn't shoot a spike or 4 pt for example. But wouldn't pass on a nice 6 or 8

See you are practicing management. It's just not the same for everyone.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Guns&ReligionCop

[NYSuperSportsman]

I think the hunters per square mile is definitely an issue that we can't change but more of a QDM mentality will help immensely! It never ceases to amaze me how when people see QDM or QDMA they automatically think buck management. That is a big part of it. But its about all deer! If you plant some clover, cut some trees, plant some trees for cover or browse, shoot does, or any other project that will help deer, you are a deer manager! And are practicing QDM! Wether you like it or not!!!

[Guns&ReligionCop]

I think the hunters per square mile is definitely an issue that we can't change but more of a QDM mentality will help immensely! It never ceases to amaze me how when people see QDM or QDMA they automatically think buck management. That is a big part of it. But its about all deer! If you plant some clover, cut some trees, plant some trees for cover or browse, shoot does, or any other project that will help deer, you are a deer manager! And are practicing QDM! Wether you like it or not!!!

The problem with QDMA is they don't emphasize twhat you are saying enough. All most people see are people like Larry Weishunn stumbling around clumsly setting up a tripod to shoot a Monster buck eatting over bait with 4 or 5 other incredible deer right there and ramble on and on about mangement. Everyone knows hunting in NY,NJ,or PA is nothing like that and find it either or hard to relate or dismiss it as complete BS.

[josephmrtn]

if people would just use common sense and not shoot young deer it would be better. Any area that has doe permits shatters the excuse for meat hunters. Shoot the doe and let the little bucks grow up. It is obvious when you see an older mature buck...not just the rack size. I have no problem with guys shooting a 3.5 year old or older scrub buck. The thing is hunters are just lazy, they do not want to put the time in. No one here can say that yearling bucks are not the easiest deer to harvest in the woods. The practically sprint to any call and if you break the law and bait they will be on it all day. Why not pass them? Put some time and effort in and harvest mature bucks and doe? JMHO Id rather shoot nothing than a young buck.

EDIT As far as the hunter who "needs" the deer meat why not just work for the amount of time you sit in the woods and not buy a hunting licensee. the money would add up and you would be able to buy plenty of meat.

Sir I have to disagree, I spent over 80 hours in the field this fall hunting and quite a few hours scouting... the buck (my first) i shot was 1.5 yrs old, its not about how much time you put in its about what quality the deer in your area are... im NOT some lazy guy who just goes out and shoots the first thing i see... it was pure luck I even got my buck he just happened to step out at just the wrong moment... this year i saw a total of 10 deer and I shot 2 (a doe and buck) it was a very hard year this year... last year i saw over 20...

How much hunting have you done? i happen to know that they DONT come charging to every call you make... (i know the hard way)

no offense

Edited January 31, 2013 by josephmrtn

[phade]

Ohio is managed much better than NY.

Hey! Someone got it!

[nycredneck]

I can remember back in the '80's bow hunter success rate was 13% if I'm not mistaken.

[G-Man]

Phade, Ohio, pa and most otherstate the game is managed by biologists , sorry to say here its not. How about a 6 day gun season...will never happen here, or legnthining the season because not enough does were harvested. ny does not have mandatory checkstations(dec personal would want them but they are controlled by politicians who say no more jobs) you can't manage something when your hands are tied... better managed yes due to fact most are under seperate game commissions. better deer no... lots of big bucks are taken in ny every year and never measured or seen except by a few locals that know the guy that shot it. i know my neighbor is one of them, look at his racks and most people would think he got them out west somewhere, he shoots the biggest he can for meat, if it has 21 points so be it, rack get cut off and thrown in a bushel basket, 140 in plus deer in a basket... never to be seen but by a few.