Whats so hard about passing yearling bucks?

[nyslowhand]

Arguing can often change minds, or lead to compromise, or better yet, find solutions.  Fighting gets you nowhere.  But so does doing nothing at all. ;D

This is why everyone is getting so defensive! You're arguing, not discussing!

Opinions are value based and evolved from life experiences of each individual.

No one is going to change these unless they are pummeled to the ground and beg for mercy.

[nyantler]

Some one stated that AR does nothing for the benefit of the heard.. thats not entirely true.. it is part of the whoe management equation...but without the rest of the factors it really does nothing on its own but produce a little better age class representation for the buck. lowering population (usually doe) to meet the habitat is usually the first step in controlling overall deer health

[punch]

since everyone has different experience hence different opinions and no one is going actually start throwing fists, How about we all bring back factual information to this discussion.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Are you implying (I am implying nothing...I clearly stated where Your arguments fall short)that its natural for more bucks to get shot each year than does ( Direct DEC report numbers---The 2009 deer take included more than 120,700 antlerless deer (adult females and fawns) and just over 102,000 adult bucks.) and that mother nature magically fixes itself every year.  You are basically saying mother nature takes care of everything so long as your rights (legal right by the purchase of our license)aren't infringed upon.

And QDM goes way beyond passing yearlings and doe management.  I suspect you haven't looked into to deeply to know otherwise.  It always easier to do nothing, why try to improve habitat?  (15% of the land I lease to hunt is in Food plats. Over half are in late season crops to assist in the wintering of the local herd) Mother nature provides everything, right?  I'm willing to bet that the guys that aren't seeing as many deer aren't doing anything to improve the habitat to carry deer capacity or make the deer want to be there. ( I assume from you comments you have the right ot modify the habitat on the property you hunt. Let's face it...a large portion of folks hunt state land or land that they have gotten permission to hunt in some form or another. They may not have the right to modify it's use. Their ability to provide that habitat ....food source may be limited. Does that make them less deserving of a voice...or a choice? Sure sounds like you are for this turning into a KING'S sport again. Pay to Play. If you have that ability...more power too you . I for one will not buy into any hunting modification that moves our tradition that way....and the Il and Iowa that everyone is touting has moved that way.) Food (quality food) sources all year long, cover, sanctuaries, water.

[punch]

Why do you put in food plots?

[20ftupatree]

Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant. 

So, could you supply a few good recipes? What tenderizing techniques do you use? I've never tried eating antlers, and am eager to check them out.

Doc

Hehehehe I don't care who you are thats funny! Hey Doc when you get that be sure to post for the rest of us. I thought they used to stir soup?

[Larry]

Remember this is just an observation. I have also hunted on a property where you can’t kill does only the kids can kill does. So they only kill one or two a year. They will kill any buck.

I have on that property seen more deer and bucks in one day then in places in a whole season I saw 8 bucks in 1 day on the 3rd weekend of the gun season. Do I think they should kill more does yes do I think they should let small bucks walk? Don’t know did see a big 10 and 2 8s. The main thing it’s their land their rules and it works for them.

[punch]

antlerless dear numbers include fawns, 50% of which are male, and those yearlings with less than 3 inch. of ant.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

SO I can shoot them out the window of my camp...lol ;) . Come on...that does benefit the herd...as does keeping the population in check for the area it inhabits. BUT....and here is the key to the oposition...the AR do nothing of value but put bigger horns on your wall and restrict the ability of hunters to take a buck.

My problem is the $$$ driven agenda behind it all and I don't beleive that is what the sport should be. and the attempt to remove opportunities from some hunters. If it takes it away from one hunter I will oppose it...period

[WNYBuckHunter]

i don't think i have posted anything on the QDM thead it is on the AR thead some where

Thats what I meant. 

[punch]

Larry,

I bet that big 10 and two 8's were fun to see.  Hunters can be on the same land, same day.  One can see a lot of deer, the other, nothing.  Its hunting!  Many factors come into play with that but one is for sure.  Little bucks don't get to be big bucks if shot.  Thanks for the bit.

[punch]

Culvercreek,

What about the guys that spend money, helping the economy, and put in hard work to try and grow big bucks "herd health" yet neighbors shoot them all when they are small.  AR /QDM guys aren't telling you to not shoot deer, just not yearlings.  Remember that tag says "either sex" even when not accompanied with a dmp.

[punch]

It just sounds like shooting yearling bucks is the easy way out.

[punch]

With over 200,000 acres of state land to hunt on, I don't see it becoming a "kings sport"

[nycoyotehounds..BUB]

I just like venison.

[steve863]

  Remember that tag says "either sex" even when not accompanied with a dmp.

Please explain this to us??  In order to use any other "either sex" tag if one doesn't have a dmp means you need to hunt either with bow or muzzleloader in their separate seasons.  The vast majority of hunters in NYS are gun hunters in the regular season.  So gun hunters without dmp's now need to hunt with bow or muzzleloader to get a doe instead of shooting that 1 1/2 year old buck you guys don't want them to shoot, right?  If they already don't own these weapons they now need to invest in and practice with different weapons just so you guys can have a bigger buck to shoot next year?  Who exactly is getting the shorter end of the stick here?  You guys or those hunters??

[growalot]

punch.... really non for profit...Hahaha are you THAT Naive ?...The guys that started this..... knew from the get go they had a gold mine.....thats like saying the Genesee Valley conservancy  is non for profit....It's run by lawyers...They made their own little paycheck...by getting ppl to give up their property and or property rights... I've Delt with them...

This whole QDM...you do know Charles A started out as an ACCOUNTANT....credit where its due...damn smart one at that!

Love to have you check into their stock portfolios....hey are they giving away the seed  they recommend?...don't think so..do they consult for free?...not set a premium price on these "Hunting " properties they are developing and SELLING..My God you make my brain hurt! :

See this is the crutch of things....ppl are gullible...they want the biggest ...fastest....easiest solution to something and if you can get an organization to tell you what that is.... hey...it's gotta be so.....not

Ahh dammn I could just really let loose on this but ya know....there are just too many ppl out there with blinders on and I'm convinced we are breeding common sense right out of the human race

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Culvercreek,

What about the guys that spend money, helping the economy, and put in hard work to try and grow big bucks "herd health"(This is where we seperate---Big Bucks= herd health is an opinion as far as I can see) yet neighbors shoot them all when they are small.  AR /QDM guys aren't telling you to not shoot deer, just not yearlings. (but they are telling and if they had their way they would legislate it....the non-AR guys aren't trying to impose anything on anyone and I support their choice even though I do put the money into the herd. I do pass on quite a few smaller bucks too, especially the last few years with all the really big ones I have seen. But that is my choice and not my place to change the sport for others. I have shot my fair share of 1.5's...quite a few....but when I was younger and a little more excitable I missed a slew of big ones too. Seeing a really big buck back them was a pulse pounder...still is. I guess when that quits happening I will hang it up. I can just control it a bit more now...lol Remember that tag says "either sex" (what tag are you refering to?...my regular season tag says Antlered Deer)even when not accompanied with a dmp.

[punch]

Honestly, I'm not for or against AR. I'm not pushing either way.  I do think it would help.

I think pro AR and pro QDM are two different subjects.  It sounds like even you believe in QDM.

[punch]

Guys want to continue shooting little bucks for the rest of lives, fine with me.  But I do believe in QDM, and that includes the full spectrum of it.  I enjoy the habitat work.  I also think that if more and more hunters followed QDM, there wouldn't be a need for AR.  I think I mentioned it earlier.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Now that I agree with!!!. I have no idea the make up of the habitat in the WMU3's tat have AR. I would bet though that either the habitat is in poor shape or the hunter density is crazy high.

I have hunted in the high peaks, when I had more time (and to be honest in better shape with more motivation...lol) I would go in for 5-6 days...tents and the whole 9 yards. Density was not a problem there but the habitat just didin't support big deer numbers. You were luck if you saw a few deer on that trip. we did take some good bucks but the one that I prized the most was a little 6 pointer my buddy and I tracked for 2 days in a couple inches of snow. When we finally caught up with him my buddy made a great shot. We didn't even go back to camp that night. stayed right out and built a fire and napped under a pine.

Those kind of reduced deer numbers are far from what we have here in WNY. the agriculture crops are great and the food plots I see going in really seem to help...especially with the later season varieties.  I do think the measure that you mentioned (deer population control and habitat/food) are of utmost importance and they WILL have a benefit to herd health

[bpb]

Some hunters make such a big deal about it.  I really don't feel compelled to shoot a buck that is equivalent to a little boy.  Guys that say "You can't eat the antlers" are completely  ignorant.  Why not try something thats best for the herd instead of whats best for you. Our NY bucks need age.

Thinking that an animal is like a human is the first sign of weakness the antis look for in their fight to turn us against each other. Welcome to the Bambi syndrome.

[wztirem]

Its population control. What do think would happen if AR was implemented statewide? Be careful what you wish for!

[punch]

Let's not get AR confused with QDM.

[SteveB]

Let's not get AR confused with QDM.

Overwhelming majority thinks they are one in the same.