Dogs/Deer

[Doc]

So yesterday afternoon as I was sitting watching a movie, I caught a movement out of the corner of my eye. I glanced out the window and saw 7 deer running like crazy out of the front thicket, across my driveway and into the side thicket. That kind of caught my attention so I watched and sure enough I saw a brown and white dog chasing after them. I had to laugh, because he wacked into the old goat fence and bounced back about 5 feet. And then he kept trying to get through. After about 5 tries, he finally realized that if he went about 5' to his left, the fence ended. So after he figured that out he was on his way after the deer. Next came a second dog who proceeded to repeat the same fiasco as the first, bouncing off the fence and then after a half dozen tries finally figured out the fence ended just a short ways away. And so he went on his way. I really had no chance to react and stop what was going on.

 

Back during last hunting season, I had 4 dogs (not the same ones) charging up the hill right toward me just having a great ol' time. They were friendly enough, but I'm sure they were lost (probably from chasing deer).

 

All of this stuff has me wondering just how much of this goes on that I don't get to see. I'm beginning to wonder how many dogs are running around chasing deer and maybe taking down more than any of us realize. I do remember years ago putting an end to an attack on a deer in my front yard (I won't be saying how I put an end to it). The deer was hacked up pretty bad, and I doubt that it made it. The next morning, I checked out the scene and there was blood everywhere in the snow. That one involved two dogs that undoubtedly had run this deer for quite a ways taking a bite out of it every so often.

 

I know we all worry about coyotes taking down deer, but I am wondering if man's best friend may actually be having more of an impact. It sure does irritate the hell out of me when people get these dogs and then don't have enough responsibility to control them.

 

 

[Gthphtm]

Years ago where we hunted I watched the same thing 2 black Lab. mixed. chasing deer they just keep chasing them till the deer run out of breath and then start to kill them.Where I lived when I was growing up there were packs of wild dogs ( dropped off in the woods when they were puppies after they did damage to there masters houses ) that would kill just about anything to stay alive. Back then the DEC would let you shoot them.

[nyslowhand]

Actually almost every town in NY has an animal control law that puts legal responsibilities on the owners. ie; The dogs are not allowed to be a nuisance to others, must be leased, tethered or under the control of the owner and not harass wildlife. Any of these are reportable offences. In today's world if you shoot at another person's dog, regardless of what it's doing - You open yourself up to legal action.

[nyslowhand]

This becomes a DEC jurisdictional issue:

 

Environmental Conservation Law. Chapter 43-B Of the Consolidated Laws. Article 11. Fish and Wildlife. Title 9. Hunting.

§ 11-0923. Dogs

1. No owner or trainer of a dog shall:

 

a. allow it to hunt deer, or to run at large on enclosed lands on which wildlife or domestic game is possessed under license issued pursuant to the Fish and Wildlife Law or in any state park, state park reservation, state-owned game farm or wildlife refuge or state-owned or leased wildlife management area;

 

b. allow it to run at large in fields or woods inhabited by deer outside the limits of any city or village, except on lands actually farmed or cultivated by the owner or trainer of the dog or a tenant of such owner or trainer.

[Doc]

Actually almost every town in NY has an animal control law that puts legal responsibilities on the owners. ie; The dogs are not allowed to be a nuisance to others, must be leased, tethered or under the control of the owner and not harass wildlife. Any of these are reportable offences. In today's world if you shoot at another person's dog, regardless of what it's doing - You open yourself up to legal action.

That's a good deal if you recognize the dogs and assuming that they ever come home where the authorities can apprehend them. And then, I am sure you would encounter the old your word against the owner. But, all of the dogs that I have ever seen chasing deer, I had never seen before or after. The problem is that a dog that's after deer can run a heck of a long ways, and usually are not from the area that you see them in. Also, most of the dogs that I have seen are not the kinds of critters that you want to try to apprehend. Also, whenever I see them it is not really a very handy time to stop whatever you are doing to try to round them up and take them to the authorities. So for the most part, all you can do is curse and watch the action. Plus, has anyone ever tried to call off a strange dog that is intent on chasing a deer? ..... It pretty much cannot be done. That usually gets them running a little faster. So basically, the way the law is set up, they get a free pass as does the dog owner.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I have seen 3 situations as you describe Doc, "handled" previously. 2 were dogs running deer and one was a dog attcking a calf and cow during birth.

[Doc]

Well, on the one that is attacking the cow & calf, you are on pretty firm legal ground if you "handle" it. The case of the deer being chased can present a bit of a more difficult "legal" bind if it's in a place where there is even a remote chance of being witnessed and reported.  Periodically you read articles about people that wind up in some pretty ugly hot water trying to do the "right thing".

[mike rossi]

Never mind.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2013 by mike rossi

[growalot]

I was going to stay out of this...until the last post...seeing I received some pretty nasty responses from a few on here when this was brought up before...That said..

 

Mike... that's all well and fine ...but if I have a weapon...which I now carry at all times on my land now ......and a dog runs at me...with my past court history...police and DEC calls...and medical bills...The dog will be dropped and I have no concerns of legal ramifications...See a hounds man could own a 2 million dollar dog...but when it is on my land  and is an unknown threat to my personal safety...I retain the right to protect myself period...

 

 

[wmig2]

BANG!!!!!

[verminater71]

most people go by the coller

 

if it has a coller, it gets a pass, some good hunting hounds have trashed before...it happens

 

no coller, it gets handled

 

a lot of scumbags, will drive up to stateland and dump a dog, it's no different to them then tossing there garbage....

Edited April 3, 2013 by verminater71

[Doewhacker]

I enjoy seeing the forum members encouraging law breaking when they see fit as if they are the judge and jury.

 

I would feel bad for anyone who ever attempted to do any "handeling" of one of my dogs.

 

 

[Gthphtm]

This happened about 3 years ago.Opening day of rifle season,eating breakfast  and a UTV goes up the road, Fellow driving it in full camo., in the back were 2 dogs.About an hour and a half I am sitting  on my property in my homemade blind and the 3 pieces of property before that are posted.A 4 pointer goes running right in front of me being chased by the 2 dogs that were in the back of the UTV.( good thing they had red halters on) about a 1/2 an hour later they came back tracking to were they came from. 

[growalot]

Doewacker ......what I'm talking about is not law breaking...and I believe if you've read my past post you know that...I can't speak for anyone else

[Doc]

As a matter of fact, I have been challenged before by a pair of german shepards, and all I had was my bow. That wasn't too comfortable a situation. We had the growling and the bared teeth and the whole deal. If I had a gun on me, one of them at least would have been dead. I was fortunate to be able to bluff them into eventually reluctantly trotting away.

 

I also want to point out to all those that think it is a wonderful thing to have dogs loose and running deer, that I have seen the end result of that kind of dog play. Perhaps you have heard the saying, "A death of a thousand cuts". That may be the best way to describe what a deer looks like after it has run a considerable distance with a couple of dogs ripping chunks of meat out of their flanks until finally they are so weak that they can't continue. It's not a pretty sight.

 

I also grew up on a sheep farm that was frequently targeted by dogs. It was interesting how they enjoyed going from one sheep to the next killing each one and yet never feeding on any of them, and leaving most of them in a condition where they had to be put down. Talk about thrill killing. We did eventually kill those SOBs, and I felt damned good about it. It took a week of my Dad, brother and myself spending the nights up in the hay-mow, looking out  the hay-door that overlooked the barnyard. When those dogs came in, the guns were blazing and not one of the four dogs left the barnyard.

 

Yes, it is unfortunate that the dogs have to pay for the lack of responsibility of their owners. But no dog should ever be allowed to run free chasing deer or whatever. I don't care whether its a family pet or some super expensive hunting dog. Anyone who really gives a damn about there animals would never allow that to happen. There is no excuse for such irresponsibility ..... none.

 

 

[Doewhacker]

Tell it to the judge, lawbreakers. So you can justify lawbreaking when it suits your needs but not other wise. Got it.

[Gthphtm]

It is unfortunate but where I now live most of the people walk there dogs un leashed and let them run into the woods when they see an animal and make no attempt to call it back,but yet some of them put feed out every day for the deer and turkeys to come and eat at there houses.If you complain to them the tell you to mind your own business.

[growalot]

This is all the justification I need....

 

Elite NY Hunter

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Posted 21 January 2012 - 06:28 PM

Quote

Sounds like you have a domestic ( or feral) DOG problem...

Once again, I offer my deepest regrets and sympathy for the loss of your pets..

Well I put trail cams over the goats....and today when I went to check....planned on hunting yotes over...to get rid of killers....I was so very wrong for I surprised a nieghbors dog and it chased me out of the paddock growling and barking...I got gate closed and fashiond a long rope and noose out of bailing twine I leave on fence...got it dropped over its head and tied up...then retrieved the cam card....the only visitors was the dog I tied and the same owners other dog in pic....had a mutual friend come retieve the one and I e-mailed this one pic...of many more nasty ones of the other dog...only these dogs crow and a fox were on cam....pic was taken on the 16th .....ppl need to learn to control their dogs or this is what happens....they were also the same dogs our son saw eating a deer up the road from us....

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[G-Man]

have shovel, don't tell.... solved. I have a pic of someones' rott with a collar carrying a fawn on my property. I think people who let their dogs out do not understand they can lick you to death at home and kill when not watched.... I even have an old field and stream magazine that the entire back cover has an add saying "protect your small game kill all feral cats" has great graphic art of an army of cats coming over a hill and a cloud of small game and birds floating toward the heavens.. how the world has changed, and not for the better in my opinion. I remember several dogs being shot by my father running deer and him taking them to the owners house and telling him they were running deer in the 80's. Have a dog fence it or leash it!!!

Edited April 3, 2013 by G-Man

[covert]

If you love your pets keep control of them.

[crappyice]

I have a Brittany that loves to chase all game but he learned quite quickly via shock collar that deer are off limits. Yet I know a woman at work who tells stories of her Brittany killing fawns regularly in her neighborhood. It's rarely the dog that is the problem-it's the owner!

[GreeneHunter]

If you love your pets keep control of them.

 

Exactly !

[ELMER J. FUDD]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20130402/NEWS05/130402013/Man-allegedly-shot-neighbor-s-dog-faces-two-felony-charges

[Doc]

http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20130402/NEWS05/130402013/Man-allegedly-shot-neighbor-s-dog-faces-two-felony-charges

What a dumb-ass. Most municipalities have leash laws, and the guy had other legal opportunities to handle the problem. Not quite the same as unidentifiable dogs running loose out in the wild, chasing deer or killing livestock.

 

But the beauty of this situation is that he did have the opportunity to place the problem at the doorstep of the dog owner instead of taking it out on the dog and putting himself in legal jeopardy. Whenever you are able to I.D. the dog and handle a problem by making the owner pay, that is the best outcome when dealing with an irresponsible owner. Frankly, I think that there should be much more severe penalties for not controlling and confining dogs. I also think it should be extended to cats. And these penalties should be sufficient for the dog owner to be forced to take them seriously.

[Doewhacker]

Doc commits a felony and its ok, this guy does and he is a dumbass. Makes sense.

 

Good thing you didn't tell the whole world about it on the internet as well as give an area you live in the past, oh wait...you did.