DEC proposed AR's

[WhitetailAddict11]

I know there's a recent thread about AR's, but did anyone see DEC's proposed options for the future? These are single options, not to all be imposed at the same time. They are:

-Mandatory AR for the entire duration of fall hunting season.

-Mandatory AR bow seasons through 1st week of rifle.

-1 buck per year bag-limit.

-Shorten rifle by 1-week in Southern zone and 2-weeks in Northern zone.

-Actively promote voluntary AR's.

-No action.

I personally am in favor of the AR during bow season and first week of rifle, or the 1 buck bag-limit. If you have a problem with the 1 buck bag-limit you are just greedy in my opinion. Shoot a doe. What do ya'll think??

[Doc]

Do you have a web address for the location of this info? I'd like to read the context and details and background of these proposals.

[SteveB]

Got a link?

 

Lots of places in NY you can't "just shoot a doe" unless you are a bowhunter - and there are 400,000 gun only hunters.

 

How many hunters legally take 2 bucks?

 

This - 

Actively promote voluntary AR's

 

.

But not in a manner that demeans in any way a hunter choosing not to follow.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I would like to see the 1 buck rule myself. Cut the north season, leave the south.

 

Change up the dates with the one buck rule so there are no gun seasons during any part of the rut. Then we would have more of the Ohio,ill look in our whitetails that many say we could never have!

[phade]

I don't see NY doing anything other than the whackos spouting off enough to keep pushing the AR agenda. Don't limit my buck tags or season length, but let me dictate to others what they can shoot even more than we do now. Makes total sense.

 

Bow and first week of rifle AR makes zero sense. Zero. Day 8 of the gun season would be nothing but a massive statewide drive-fest. I think it would drive me out of hunting for the season at that point and time. Bow also proportionally represents a small % of the overall harvest...so there's really no benefit to restricting bow. I'm not sure where the logic is in that. All you'd do with gun is shift the harvest % per day in the season to day 8 and beyond.

 

Educate, don't legislate on what people can shoot.

 

OBR...I don't mind it, but again, it's not something that will ever fly.

 

Me on my high horse mode in la-la land - I'd love to see a similar system to IL on the tag allowance. They let resident bowhunters burn both buck tags in bow season if I remember correctly. I'd let the gun hunters have what they have now and not moan if I could burn both my tags in bow season. Then again, they have like half the gun season we do.

Edited September 26, 2013 by phade

[nyantler]

I don't really understand how cutting any season is beneficial since we are barely keeping up with the growing deer populations now. The one buck rule might be fine, but doe harvesting would have rise to make up for the lesser number of bucks being killed. Right now we know from ARs already implemented that after the first couple years buck harvest numbers return to normal in those areas without playing around much with the rest of deer hunting... the one buck rule and reduced season lengths come with a lot of other thought into adequate population control and possibly a lot more messing around with other factors to maintain good management.

[WhitetailAddict11]

Do you have a web address for the location of this info? I'd like to read the context and details and background of these proposals.

 

 

Got a link?

 

Lots of places in NY you can't "just shoot a doe" unless you are a bowhunter - and there are 400,000 gun only hunters.

 

How many hunters legally take 2 bucks?

 

This - 

.

But not in a manner that demeans in any way a hunter choosing not to follow.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/1314guidefull.pdf

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I personally am in favor of the AR during bow season and first week of rifle, or the 1 buck bag-limit. If you have a problem with the 1 buck bag-limit you are just greedy in my opinion. Shoot a doe. What do ya'll think??

 

 

What areas of the state do you huint in? Are there doe tags there?

[Doewhacker]

That is a list of "Alternatives" no proposals, big difference.

[phade]

I don't really understand how cutting any season is beneficial since we are barely keeping up with the growing deer populations now. The one buck rule might be fine, but doe harvesting would have rise to make up for the lesser number of bucks being killed. Right now we know from ARs already implemented that after the first couple years buck harvest numbers return to normal in those areas without playing around much with the rest of deer hunting... the one buck rule and reduced season lengths come with a lot of other thought into adequate population control and possibly a lot more messing around with other factors to maintain good management.

 

IL, WI, OH, etc. etc. etc. all have short gun seasons and manage deer numbers just fine and argubaly better than us. It's not illogical to say that we can't do the same...shorten the season and still manage the numbers effectively.

 

AR isn't a tool that is merely implemented and everything "returns" to normal. You eliminate a % of the pool to be harvested and remove choice. OBR provides choice - shoot anything you want. Once you are done, you are done.

 

AR is just bad ju-ju. Simple as that.

[BKhunter]

Personally where we hunt we only take a buck if its six points or better. If they are small 6's we let them live another day as well. I personally wind up getting does usually most years as I am picky on the bucks I will take. I will say that we do not see a lot of monster bucks since the properties around us don't operate like we do. It would be nice to see more big bucks running around in my opinion. I hunt for the meat but it is nice to be able to get a memorible deer here and there. I will say this though, my first deer ever was a cow horn spike which I took on my bow and I had no quams drawing back on him and letting one fly. I am happy there were no AR when I harvested that animal as it gave me a lasting memory. Since then I did take a few more smaller bucks, but not I really only hunt for the meat and large antlers. I like to think that I have seen our population by the property we hunt improve slightly since we enacted hunting like this. Like I said before, I'm all for seeing more and more larger bucks running around anyway I can get it.

[phade]

Personally where we hunt we only take a buck if its six points or better. If they are small 6's we let them live another day as well. I personally wind up getting does usually most years as I am picky on the bucks I will take. I will say that we do not see a lot of monster bucks since the properties around us don't operate like we do. It would be nice to see more big bucks running around in my opinion. I hunt for the meat but it is nice to be able to get a memorible deer here and there. I will say this though, my first deer ever was a cow horn spike which I took on my bow and I had no quams drawing back on him and letting one fly. I am happy there were no AR when I harvested that animal as it gave me a lasting memory. Since then I did take a few more smaller bucks, but not I really only hunt for the meat and large antlers. I like to think that I have seen our population by the property we hunt improve slightly since we enacted hunting like this. Like I said before, I'm all for seeing more and more larger bucks running around anyway I can get it.

 

And, there you have it. Your ground, fine. Statewide mandate...irresponsible.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Personally where we hunt we only take a buck if its six points or better. If they are small 6's we let them live another day as well. I personally wind up getting does usually most years as I am picky on the bucks I will take. I will say that we do not see a lot of monster bucks since the properties around us don't operate like we do. It would be nice to see more big bucks running around in my opinion. I hunt for the meat but it is nice to be able to get a memorible deer here and there. I will say this though, my first deer ever was a cow horn spike which I took on my bow and I had no quams drawing back on him and letting one fly. I am happy there were no AR when I harvested that animal as it gave me a lasting memory. Since then I did take a few more smaller bucks, but not I really only hunt for the meat and large antlers. I like to think that I have seen our population by the property we hunt improve slightly since we enacted hunting like this. Like I said before, I'm all for seeing more and more larger bucks running around anyway I can get it.

 

 

Seems like there are a few options you can take to improve you possibilities of seeing a mature buck. Both of which don't IMPOSE a person view on others. Improve the land you have to attract and hold deer, put in some effort to better educate the surrounding landowners or find some other property to hunt too.

[WhitetailAddict11]

What areas of the state do you huint in? Are there doe tags there?

 

I'm mid-state on the eastern border. Right where Washington county, Warren County, and Saratoga County Collide. Yes we get doe tags here.

That is a list of "Alternatives" no proposals, big difference.

My apologies, I should have made clear that the OP was not word for word what I had read.

[WhitetailAddict11]

Seems like there are a few options you can take to improve you possibilities of seeing a mature buck. Both of which don't IMPOSE a person view on others. Improve the land you have to attract and hold deer, put in some effort to better educate the surrounding landowners or find some other property to hunt too.

Come on Culver, you know "educating surrounding landowners" is like pissing into the wind. They tell you to take your opinion and shove it just like most guys on here do. I should know from experience, I'm not sure I have ever spoke with someone who cares to be enlightened, and I have made my best effort on multiple occasions. 

[WhitetailAddict11]

By the way, where is NY getting its age structure info from? The don't know how old the bucks we shoot are, just by our harvest info.

[WNYBuckHunter]

By the way, where is NY getting its age structure info from? The don't know how old the bucks we shoot are, just by our harvest info.

 

Basically, biologists go around to the local processing places and gather data, then all of the info is put into a statistical analysis system and the numbers are based on that.

[A Sportsman]

Here is one way you "educate" someone into being more selective. You allow them the freedom to shoot what they want. And thru the normal progression of things they naturally do it in their own. That's how I got that way, and I'm willing to bet most others have too. Teaching someone to be selective before they get the experience of killing, trailing, gutting, dragging and eating a few just doesn't seem natural to me. And I am not talking about kids getting into it. Full grown adults also should be given a chance to progress as hunters same way many of us did.

[steve863]

Not everyone grows into being selective.  For many it's not about antlers and it will NEVER be.  I've hunted deer since the late 70's, and I could care less about antlers.   You can call me a cold blooded killer, or a brown and it's down guy, I don't mind in the least.  If I am going into the woods during deer hunting season, my plan is to put something down.  Otherwise I can go hiking for FREE at any other time of the year and don't need to buy a license or wait for cold hunting season weather to do it.  With the limited amount of time I and many others these days have to hunt, I am pretty sure that much of this being "selective" talk is nothing but hot air.  When push comes to shove, and if that forkhorn happens to come by just before the season ends, even these "selective" sportsman may very well be pulling the trigger, most especially in areas where doe permits are not easy to come by and the alternative is going deerless for the season.

 

I've said it before, this antler restriction talk is nothing but BS.  In reality the DEC could give a hoot about the antlers that a deer happens to be wearing when it gets shot.  They want deer shot, and that's pretty much it.  If it wasn't for deer population control, there wouldn't even be a deer season, so we shouldn't think that deer seasons are somehow implemented with trophy hunters in mind.  AR's are simply the figment of hunters imaginations in thinking that they may have a better chance in killing a big antlered buck if AR's are imposed on everyone and nothing more.  The only reason the DEC implemented AR's in the areas they have was because of these cry baby hunters who wanted them.  If some hunters want to let the younger bucks walk, let them, but please don't go telling me and others that I should do the same all in the name of antler glory.

 

 

 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree with you Steve. Should not be PUSHED on those that have no interest. But let me ask you this. If you had access to a property to hunt where about 30% of the bucks you saw would be over 1.5 years old, would you shoot that 1.5 year old as soon as it walked by? (I am not talking racks size I am talking older deer).

Edited September 26, 2013 by Culvercreek hunt club

[G-Man]

1St DEC doesn't care about mature bucks, 1.5 Year olds can breed. Population numbers are primary concern (whether to make hunters/farmers/landowners happy) as for. Buck limitythey can go on but do not charge me for a full fee for all my tags. Learn to hunt, learn to get permission to hunt, learn to manage habitat, and learn to manage your own property with in the Dec guidelines. Way more important than DEC regs/ hoping for an easy way out. If the place you hunt can only hold. five Deer per square mile, changing how many points a deer has to have is not going to help that. You can't stockpile big bucks and the closer the ratio gets to 1-1 the more broken racks there are.. most people won't shoot a big buck with a broken rack!! Damn horn hunters!!

[steve863]

I agree with you Steve. Should not be PUSHED on those that have no interest. But let me ask you this. If you had access to a property to hunt where about 30% of the bucks you saw would be over 1.5 years old, would you shoot that 1.5 year old as soon as it walked by? (I am not talking racks size I am talking older deer).

 

 

Well if it was property where I absolutely knew I'd be seeing deer each and every day at, I maybe would be more selective be it a buck or doe.  I'd surely let a small skinny doe walk in hopes of a more plump one.  That is surely NOT the case where I hunt, however.  And before the cowboys here get on me for shooting everything and anything, the place I hunt is 180 acres and is only hunted by two of us.  On a good years, we will take tops 4 deer off of it if we get doe tags, so it's NOT like we are gunning the place dry.  In some more mountainous places like we hunt just west of the Catskill range, you just don't see deer every time out.  If you wait long enough and think the big one will come around tomorrow you will get skunked.  And like I said my goal when I am hunting is to put something down, otherwise I can just go hiking on a nice summers day instead to enjoy the outdoors.  Hunting season for me is to bring some venison home.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am with ya. I am very very spoiled where I hunt now compared to growing up. I hunted seasons and never saw a buck and didn't have a doe tag. I had not gotten into bow hunting then becasue my father wasn't bow hunting. if it had one 3" horn it hit the dirt. I have a big BOX full of those. I have spent seasons up north in 5H on the property I can hunt and not seen a deer. Another no doe permit area. I can't see telling a hunter in to keep paying the license fee and by the way you arent going to see anything to shoot.

[TeeBugg]

Not everyone grows into being selective. For many it's not about antlers and it will NEVER be. I've hunted deer since the late 70's, and I could care less about antlers. You can call me a cold blooded killer, or a brown and it's down guy, I don't mind in the least. If I am going into the woods during deer hunting season, my plan is to put something down. Otherwise I can go hiking for FREE at any other time of the year and don't need to buy a license or wait for cold hunting season weather to do it. With the limited amount of time I and many others these days have to hunt, I am pretty sure that much of this being "selective" talk is nothing but hot air. When push comes to shove, and if that forkhorn happens to come by just before the season ends, even these "selective" sportsman may very well be pulling the trigger, most especially in areas where doe permits are not easy to come by and the alternative is going deerless for the season.

I've said it before, this antler restriction talk is nothing but BS. In reality the DEC could give a hoot about the antlers that a deer happens to be wearing when it gets shot. They want deer shot, and that's pretty much it. If it wasn't for deer population control, there wouldn't even be a deer season, so we shouldn't think that deer seasons are somehow implemented with trophy hunters in mind. AR's are simply the figment of hunters imaginations in thinking that they may have a better chance in killing a big antlered buck if AR's are imposed on everyone and nothing more. The only reason the DEC implemented AR's in the areas they have was because of these cry baby hunters who wanted them. If some hunters want to let the younger bucks walk, let them, but please don't go telling me and others that I should do the same all in the name of antler glory.

Well put. Im on the same page as you. I hunt for DEER. Ill say it like i do to my buddies that preach big horns....i havent found a recipe yet that makes antlers taste good.

[HectorBuckBuster]

If they do the 1 buck rule, how am i supposed to get the NY Buck Slam Bow,Shotgun, and Muzzleloader ?