Taking the plunge

[moog5050]

The 1-3/4" is an arbitrary number used by the AMO to account for the distance from the contact point of the hand to the opposite side of the riser. Why didn't they simply use the grip point of the bow handle? ...... Good question. I haven't got a clue, but that is the industry standard, and the way the draw length of a bow is specified when you measure it up and order the bow.

drawlgth.jpg

 

 

WOW, I actually agree with Doc.  The 1.75 is not an arbitrary number but based on the typical measurement to the front of the shelf (on modern bows) to the back of the grip at the measurement point.  I will not speak to bows made 20 years ago.  And the reason why, because the hand pushes against the bow at that deepest point so for measuring DL you use that point.  Nothing touches the front of the shelf.  However, one could eliminate adding the 1.75 and everyone would simply have a new shorter calculated DL.  Perhaps adding it is for ease of determining arrow length.  Not really sure. 

Edited February 27, 2014 by moog5050

[moog5050]

hahaha....well seeings how this thread is long gone.  i'll give my thoughts.  i don't believe any compound bow has nothing in place for a "draw stop", allowing you to draw until it simply locked up.  older bows and some new target bows have cams machined with grooves or flat surfaces that the string bottomed out on.  due to longer limb length of non-parallel limbed older bows with this style cam you got a "back wall / end of draw cycle" of the bow that was very spungy and allowed for another inch or more of draw if you simply pulled a little harder and disregarded your anchor related to your correct draw length.  you wouldn't be allowed to simply draw and have the cams over rotate to the point where they wouldn't roll back when letting down on the string.  most newer bows have post style draw stops to help stiffen the "back wall".  there's two types of these posts; ones that contact the string/cables and ones that contact the limb(s).  both can yield a pretty stiff back wall given the bow geometry of todays shorter, more parallel limbs.  one grey area for some might be new bow fishing specific bows or the Mathews Genesis used for NASP in schools.  these still have the first stop type i mentioned but won't serve it's purpose until the maximum draw length of the bow.  most shooters simply draw to there anchor point as the draw range without any adjustments is huge.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification on the older bows DB - they are really just string stops machined into the cam.  makes sense.  I figured something had to stop the bow from being overdrawn besides anchor point.  (Just a joke for you shawn).  lol

[shawnhu]

Thanks for the clarification on the older bows DB - they are really just string stops machined into the cam. makes sense. I figured something had to stop the bow from being overdrawn besides anchor point. (Just a joke for you shawn). lol

Hehe.

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[dbHunterNY]

Culver...The average bow is 1 3/4" from throat of hand grip to front edge of bow. This is the standard AMO method of measuring dl .

 

Some info in this article.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_1.htm

 

db .. it is a fact that many of today's bows will lock up if the stops are removed .

In some bows, a person can  adjust stops too far back and result in a locked up bow( this is more common in a bow with a rotating mod and a longer stop slot to accommodate different draw lengths.

 

my last post was to clarify how different designs work.  i didn't read through most of the argument in the middle of this thread.  i am definitely not arguing with your post here.  i agree if the stops are removed bows may just lock up.  that said I'm not sure why they're removed to begin with. i have seen bows come from big box stores where the draw stop was waaayyy in the wrong position, as was the case with my cousins Diamond Outlaw from Dick's Sporting Goods.  it didn't lock up but felt very messed up when drawing.  i imagine this part of the discussion came about thinking the OP might by a used bow from someone that's messed up.  if buying a used bow, someone who isn't experienced enough should take it to a good bow shop to have the bow checked over.  heck I've even got a Hoyt bow new still in the factory box that had a string get bumped out of the cam groove during shipping.  nothing was damaged so i had to put it in a press and get it all back in working order.

[moog5050]

DB

 

I have accidently locked bows when I had to remove the stop to press the bow and forgot to put them back in before drawing - yes stupid.  It is disconcerting to say the least, but the discussion evolved into bows without draw or cable stops.  I asked how they stop from being overdrawn and locked up, and you answered that question.  There is a stop, but it is machined into the cam.  Thanks.

[ncountry]

 I just didn't want a newbie to get the wrong info.Especially something where one could get hurt or ruin $100s of equipment. Definitely not wanting to start an argument. We have enough things to argue about where we (hny) have differing opinions.lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I Learned something today. Who says these derailed, drawn out threads are of no use...lol

[Doc]

I Learned something today. Who says these derailed, drawn out threads are of no use...lol

There has been some great stuff discussed on this thread that should be of interest to a lot of people as well as the OP. I don't think the thread got as much "derailed" as it simply evolved.

[Meat Manager]

I can see both sides. That's exactly why I'm going to Kleins and Greg's to learn more

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I'd stop by to see Bob at Wildwood in Elbridge...best setup guy around IMO..

Joe at Klein's once told me it was my single cam bows fault the vapor trail strings were twisting...Bob corrected the twist in 2 minutes.

Also if Bob is not busy he will teach you how to tech your bow... Most guys want you to drop off and come back later.

He mostly has bow techs and diamonds over there, no matter what take your bow to him if you are dissatisfied with your setup.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Five Seasons]

LOL - great minds ....

 

Belo, what does my friendship with Phade have to do with the fact that DL doesn't change when you alter your d-loop?  Nothing, but thanks for pointing out that useful tid bit.

 

I'm just saying you're both on one side of the argument. And I also wanted to stir the pot.

[moog5050]

I'm just saying you're both on one side of the argument. And I also wanted to stir the pot.

 

 

Yes and we are both correct.  LOL Well done Mr. Pot Stiror or is it Pot Stirer -

[Five Seasons]

The 1-3/4" is an arbitrary number used by the AMO to account for the distance from the contact point of the hand to the opposite side of the riser. Why didn't they simply use the grip point of the bow handle? ...... Good question. I haven't got a clue, but that is the industry standard, and the way the draw length of a bow is specified when you measure it up and order the bow.

drawlgth.jpg

 

 

Edit Note: Sorry Ncountry beat me to it and already explained this.

 

better pic

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

very poor form.

 

 

 

I mean her  DL is too short and terrible anchor.

[dbHunterNY]

better pic

 

 

Did you know they've got a DVD? HAHAHA

[Lawdwaz]

What's the white stuff running out of her belly button?

[Five Seasons]

Did you know they've got a DVD? HAHAHA

Goes to get a Kleenex

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[jjb4900]

Here's a question I have, I see there's two ways to measure draw length......the one with the mathematical formula were you measure your arm span and do the calculation and the one with the marked arrow that you draw back to your anchor point and then add 1.75 inches, and not everyone uses the same anchor point...will you get the same measurement from both methods?

[bowaholic]

Mission makes great bow for a very reasonable price.  Made by Mathews and having all the technology as the mother brand Mission would be a great started bow. 

[NFA-ADK]

Other tips to keep in mind.

 

Your sight and peep.  These are very important.  You want a sight that is easy to see and matches up with your peep exactly.  This will ensure consistency in your shooting once your form is good. 

 

Some people like small sights with small peeps and other like larger sights with matching peep.  Sight pins come in small and large sizes and different colors.  Besides trying the bow make sure your peep and sight line up good and you can test sights and peeps to find one you like.  I like bright colors around my sight. 

 

I mention this because sights can get expensive especially if you look into adjustable ones.

 

Make sure the arrows you buy match up to the bow. 

 

Arrow rest: Personally I like the drop away, I think the technology is perfected and it works amazing.  Many other rests to choose from.

 

If you shoot short ranges 30 yards and less make sure you shoot at different targets unless you don't mind buying more arrows. 

 

Good luck!!!
 

Edited February 28, 2014 by NFA-ADK

[shawnhu]

very poor form.

I mean her DL is too short and terrible anchor.

She's not physically capable of drawing any longer... Unless she goes Amazonian, and we wouldn't want that!

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[Elmo]

OK...all of a sudden this conversation just got really interesting.  Time for me to join in.

[Doc]

Other tips to keep in mind.

 

Your sight and peep.  These are very important.  You want a sight that is easy to see and matches up with your peep exactly.  This will ensure consistency in your shooting once your form is good. 

 

Some people like small sights with small peeps and other like larger sights with matching peep.  Sight pins come in small and large sizes and different colors.  Besides trying the bow make sure your peep and sight line up good and you can test sights and peeps to find one you like.  I like bright colors around my sight. 

 

I mention this because sights can get expensive especially if you look into adjustable ones.

 

Make sure the arrows you buy match up to the bow. 

 

Arrow rest: Personally I like the drop away, I think the technology is perfected and it works amazing.  Many other rests to choose from.

 

If you shoot short ranges 30 yards and less make sure you shoot at different targets unless you don't mind buying more arrows. 

 

Good luck!!!

 

It is amazing how the cost of archery can grow way beyond the price of the bow. So when it comes to accessories, your approach will reflect your own personal buying philosophy. Some guys will simply throw a lot of money at their purchases thinking that if it's expensive it must be the best and necessary. If you can afford that approach, why not? If you can't you have to take a more fundamental approach. When you get past the bow and start getting involved in accessories, it may make sense for a beginner to stay as basic as possible until you experience a need later on. Salesmen have a vested interest in selling you all the bells and whistles possible, and also all the most expensive models of these things. And this is where it gets real difficult because generally there is always some story that goes along with each additional dollar spent, and generally there is some truth and science behind it. The guy may not be lying to you, but what is important to him may never be all that important to you. But at the very beginning, you have no idea what exactly you require. My approach was always to go with the basics and let the other trinkets and gadgets grow on you as you experience a need. Of course that merely reflects my penny-pinching, cheap-skate nature .... ha-ha. But in the end it really winds up to be the choice of the purchaser. Just something to think about before getting bombarded with all the sales pitch.

[orion]

Here's a question I have, I see there's two ways to measure draw length......the one with the mathematical formula were you measure your arm span and do the calculation and the one with the marked arrow that you draw back to your anchor point and then add 1.75 inches, and not everyone uses the same anchor point...will you get the same measurement from both methods?

 

I believe the wingspan measurement is a ball park figure based on the average size person. It will get you close but with today's compounds I would think you need a more accurate method which would be actually drawing with a marked arrow then fine tuning it from there

[Bowtoons]

You guys that are saying a D Loop changes your DL are killin me!!! It simply does NOT change your DL. It changes only your anchor. Go ahead and drop your DL 2" and add a 2" D Loop and let me know how that works out for you. I guarantee you that your accuracy will suffer big time. I think most people should worry about having the correct DL to begin with. I can't tell you how many times I see guys on the shooting line leaning back to make up for to long of a DL and they don't even realize they are. The best and most accurate way I've come across to find the right DL is to stand against a door jamb so your standing nice and straight, then draw your bow. You will immediately know if your to long or short.

[moog5050]

You guys that are saying a D Loop changes your DL are killin me!!! It simply does NOT change your DL. It changes only your anchor. Go ahead and drop your DL 2" and add a 2" D Loop and let me know how that works out for you. I guarantee you that your accuracy will suffer big time. I think most people should worry about having the correct DL to begin with. I can't tell you how many times I see guys on the shooting line leaning back to make up for to long of a DL and they don't even realize they are. The best and most accurate way I've come across to find the right DL is to stand against a door jamb so your standing nice and straight, then draw your bow. You will immediately know if your to long or short.

 

 

LOL - you are right bowtoons, but some people will never be convinced.