Great News

[SteveB]

file:///C:/Users/Steve/Downloads/HANDOUT_-_Effect_of_Xbows_20131107-1.pdf

 

No change in Pa.

 

 

[NFA-ADK]

LoL that was good Wooly!  O that celebration noise!  LMAO 

And you know I would never put you in the category of my slob hunting friends lol.  

 

I must know more slobs than most!   

 

 

[nyslowhand]

. .. the real question is what safety class if any will be needed for crossbow... and is it a separate licence....

Didn't the bill simply define Xbows as legal weapons, while limiting their use during archery season to a specific time frame?

 

Pretty sure the bowhunter course will resume including Xbows, like before. For those already having hunter safety & bow courses, an online course/training will be available. Maybe even with the printable form they used a couple years ago..!?!

[mike rossi]

Because once we start tipping over the biggest bucks in the forest, there's gonna be a lot of whooping and hollering going on.

I got news for you, if you all tip over bucks and not doe deer the regs will be revisited at some point... Why the heck do you think the nature conservancy and Audubon helped the crossbow coalition?

[wooly]

I got news for you, if you all tip over bucks and not doe deer the regs will be revisited at some point... Why the heck do you think the nature conservancy and Audubon helped the crossbow coalition?

 

Oh I'm sure there will be plenty of antlerless hitting the ground as well...especially the first few seasons.

I bet there will be a lot of guys like myself looking to get that first kill under their belts with a new weapon.

Horns or not, guys will be out there with their x-bows with the same mixed harvest criteria shared by the vertical bow and gun shooters.

At least that's the way I see it playing out.

[WNYBuckHunter]

because you were obviously upset that I started a hunting thread. I was wondering if you'd prefer I start non-hunting related threads like she did multiple times a day.

Im not upset about anything. Your thread had little to do with hunting, and everything to do with taunting.

Dancing?

[WNYBuckHunter]

It's laughable how you consistently leave the hundreds of millions of dollars the manufacturers had riding on this, plus a bunch of writers for a popular state magazine with hard-ons for the NYB out of this. I will tip my hat to the NYCC, but they were far from alone in getting this passed. There is no manufacturer with millions at stake who needed to keep the crossbow out... only the other way around.

Show me where i said they were alone. NYB wasnt alone either. Funny how you guys just keep on beating the drum.....

[Five Seasons]

Taking a deer with a compound from a tree stand is easier than a crossbow from the ground with no blind Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

and taking a deer from the ground with a compound is harder than taking one from the ground with an xbow. you can't change 2 variables. Your comparison is not apples to apples. the regulation does not outlaw crossbow hunting from a stand.

[Five Seasons]

I still would like to know how a crossbow hunter interferes with other bow hunters during bow season... .

 

I've never been a fan of using that as an argument. But the public land hunters will be impacted just by sheer presence of more hunters. Yes guns make noise, but the boom of human activity during gun is what sends the deer into hiding and nocturnal. An archery hunter is genearlly far more careful with scent and noise or they'd never get a shot.

 

For a private land owner, crossbows will have little to no affect. For public land hunters, it is selfish but understandable to want the woods to yourself. Wouldn't we all? You just can't have it that way and more hunters will mean less opportunities unless you're dedicated enough to get in earlier than the next guy and in the right spot to use the pressure to your advantage.

[nyantler]

I've never been a fan of using that as an argument. But the public land hunters will be impacted just by sheer presence of more hunters. Yes guns make noise, but the boom of human activity during gun is what sends the deer into hiding and nocturnal. An archery hunter is genearlly far more careful with scent and noise or they'd never get a shot.

 

For a private land owner, crossbows will have little to no affect. For public land hunters, it is selfish but understandable to want the woods to yourself. Wouldn't we all? You just can't have it that way and more hunters will mean less opportunities unless you're dedicated enough to get in earlier than the next guy and in the right spot to use the pressure to your advantage.

With all due respect... it is not understandable to want public woods to yourself.. that's why it's called public... there should always be a certain expectation that you may encounter undesirable situations when hunting public lands. Especially smaller parcels. Selfishness is not a good argument, especially when there is no evidence that there will be less opportunity anywhere or the huge influx of new hunters that you suggest.

 

I don't think I have said this before but I believe that the real reason there was such a push back against crossbows at all was because of NY Bowhunters and there selfish vendetta against them. The buzz they started put a bug in the ear of a lot of other bowhunters that jumped on board gumming up the works for introducing crossbows into NY hunting. Not just trying to keep them out of bow season, but out of NY all together. This single issue consumed the club. I was a proud member years ago until I witnessed things by club officials that I won't mention here that soured me on the clubs real intentions... the crossbow issue was the end of the club for me.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

With all due respect... it is not understandable to want public woods to yourself.. that's why it's called public... there should always be a certain expectation that you may encounter undesirable situations when hunting public lands. Especially smaller parcels. Selfishness is not a good argument, especially when there is no evidence that there will be less opportunity anywhere or the huge influx of new hunters that you suggest.

 

I don't think I have said this before but I believe that the real reason there was such a push back against crossbows at all was because of NY Bowhunters and there selfish vendetta against them. The buzz they started put a bug in the ear of a lot of other bowhunters that jumped on board gumming up the works for introducing crossbows into NY hunting. Not just trying to keep them out of bow season, but out of NY all together. This single issue consumed the club. I was a proud member years ago until I witnessed things by club officials that I won't mention here that soured me on the clubs real intentions... the crossbow issue was the end of the club for me.

Hope you didnt think about this statement long? Saying this is like saying you dont think anyone will use them.  There will no doubt be thousands of 1st timers in the woods this fall on all state lands.

[BizCT]

and taking a deer from the ground with a compound is harder than taking one from the ground with an xbow. you can't change 2 variables. Your comparison is not apples to apples. the regulation does not outlaw crossbow hunting from a stand.

I agree. Except you and 99% of other compound hunters never hunt from the ground, so the true comparison is irrelevant. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of compound kills on the site that were done on the ground with no blind.

Bowhunters outside of NY laugh at the fact that guys need to sit in trees to kill animals

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 3, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Terry]

This is another example of a change that brings massive paranoia, followed by a lot of whining, ending with things never being anywhere close to as negative as the naysayers said it would be.

[d-bone20917]

Bowhunters outside of NY laugh at the fact that guys need to sit in trees to kill animals.

 

They also laugh at all the east coasters that are scared to hunt out of state without being led around by a guide. 

[nyantler]

Hope you didnt think about this statement long? Saying this is like saying you dont think anyone will use them.  There will no doubt be thousands of 1st timers in the woods this fall on all state lands.

Yeah I'm sure the public lands will be overrun with crossbow hunters... and so what if they are... there was a time not long ago when there were twice as many hunters in the woods as there are today and everything was just fine... for those that feel crowded move farther than a few hundred yards off the road or I know of 6 million acres of state land that doesn't get hunted near enough where you can hunt. I've been hunting public land for nearly 40 years and rarely see another hunter in the woods. There is this big push to get more people involved in hunting in NY.. well, there ya go... now we'll have more... what's all the belly aching about?

[Vince1]

Goin from an empty woods to possibly being crowded is a reason to bellyache. I wasnt standin arm and arm with xbowers but i wasnt against it. There is a benefit and a drawback. I always looked at em like they were rifles with less powere. And after lookin into em so my wife can be like darly (her words) i still feel the same.

But im just learnin

[bowaholic]

I agree. Except you and 99% of other compound hunters never hunt from the ground, so the true comparison is irrelevant. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of compound kills on the site that were done on the ground with no blind. Bowhunters outside of NY laugh at the fact that guys need to sit in trees to kill animals Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have to disagree with you Biz-R-OWorld when you say 99% of other compound hunters never hunt from the ground.  I personally hunt about 90% of the time on the ground with no blind at all and have killed a lot of whitetails doing this, bucks included....in fact I've killed only one deer from a stand (my first buck). I also know that I am the only person in my family who hunts from a stand during bow season.  I have multiple friends who hunt from the ground too.  I think that more people than you believe hunt from the ground.  

[Doc]

Yeah I'm sure the public lands will be overrun with crossbow hunters... and so what if they are... there was a time not long ago when there were twice as many hunters in the woods as there are today and everything was just fine... for those that feel crowded move farther than a few hundred yards off the road or I know of 6 million acres of state land that doesn't get hunted near enough where you can hunt. I've been hunting public land for nearly 40 years and rarely see another hunter in the woods. There is this big push to get more people involved in hunting in NY.. well, there ya go... now we'll have more... what's all the belly aching about?

First of all let's straighten out the mis-statements about numbers of bow hunters today vs. the number of bowhunters at any time in the past. Bow season participation has never been a declining activity and has been increasing steadily in numbers of bowhunters since it's inception. There was never a time when there were twice as many bowhunters as there are today. I am repeatedly adding emphasis to the "bow" part of hunting because it is strictly a bowhunting issue that we are talking about here, with crossbow introduction having nothing to do with gun hunter stats. So I just wanted to clear that up before anyone took that "twice as many" statement seriously. As relates to the discussions here that stat is irrelevant. Adding crossbows into bow season will have no positive effect on gun season participants. So we will continue to see gun hunter and overall hunting population slides.

 

I think that one issue that keeps this crossbow rift going is this idea that everywhere, there is an unlimited amount of hunting land and absolutely no reason for excess hunter density anywhere during bow season. If I hunted only land that was being way underutilized, or that I could simply keep other people off of by decree and with posted signs, I might have a different opinion on crossbows too.

 

In terms of crossbows adding to the overall hunter numbers, I'll believe that when I see it. Yes I think there will be a significant shift from gun hunter to crossbow hunters. And that's all it will be is a redistribution of season participants. If I am wrong about that, I will be happily surprised and freely admit that I was wrong. But unfortunately I believe I will be proven correct.

[Doc]

For public land hunters, it is selfish but understandable to want the woods to yourself. Wouldn't we all? You just can't have it that way and more hunters will mean less opportunities unless you're dedicated enough to get in earlier than the next guy and in the right spot to use the pressure to your advantage.

Unfortunately, the idea of walking miles and miles back to find the land that is too far for the hoards to reach. Doesn't work anymore. The word is out. Too many magazine articles on the subject. In fact you might even find hunter density less next to the state parking lots ..... lol. Seriously, I have a quad trail that takes me most of a mile up a very steep "killer hill" (and I use that term specifically because of a neighbor that was a victim of that hill). The hill is not "hands and knees" steep, but it does feel slightly uncomfortably steep even on an ATV. From the end of that hill climb, I park my ATV and then start walking deeper in until I am well in excess of a mile and a half from the road. Believe it or not after all this ATV and foot travel, when I walked over onto the state land to my stand, I have watched some of these guys huffing and puffing past me sweating like a pig and dragging 5 tons of stands, climbing stix, back pack and all kinds of equipment. Unbelievable! That kind of thing is not really all that rare. The word is out.....climb far enough back in and all the hunters disappear and all the bucks are wall-hangers. Well, sadly that's not really true anymore on either count ..... lol.

[Arrow Flinger]

Unfortunately, the idea of walking miles and miles back to find the land that is too far for the hoards to reach. Doesn't work anymore. The word is out. Too many magazine articles on the subject. In fact you might even find hunter density less next to the state parking lots ..... lol. Seriously, I have a quad trail that takes me most of a mile up a very steep "killer hill" (and I use that term specifically because of a neighbor that was a victim of that hill). The hill is not "hands and knees" steep, but it does feel slightly uncomfortably steep even on an ATV. From the end of that hill climb, I park my ATV and then start walking deeper in until I am well in excess of a mile and a half from the road. Believe it or not after all this ATV and foot travel, when I walked over onto the state land to my stand, I have watched some of these guys huffing and puffing past me sweating like a pig and dragging 5 tons of stands, climbing stix, back pack and all kinds of equipment. Unbelievable! That kind of thing is not really all that rare. The word is out.....climb far enough back in and all the hunters disappear and all the bucks are wall-hangers. Well, sadly that's not really true anymore on either count ..... lol.

 

 

Theres also a lot of Public Land that you cant get a mile from the road on. If you do, you're on the shoulder of the next road!

[NFA-ADK]

I agree Doc.  I don't see any NEW hunters starting just because crossbows are now legal.  I can see many gun hunters taking advantage but new recruits will not happen.  But I do really hope both of us are wrong and the numbers swell.

 

If the first year was any indication it will take a few years before the weapon sees any main stream use.

 

Personally I doubt this weapon will ever find a place in my house unless I am not capable of drawing a bow or it is a gift.

 

At least the disabled have another tool to use.  Hope I never HAVE to use one!!!

 

[nyantler]

First of all let's straighten out the mis-statements about numbers of bow hunters today vs. the number of bowhunters at any time in the past. Bow season participation has never been a declining activity and has been increasing steadily in numbers of bowhunters since it's inception. There was never a time when there were twice as many bowhunters as there are today. I am repeatedly adding emphasis to the "bow" part of hunting because it is strictly a bowhunting issue that we are talking about here, with crossbow introduction having nothing to do with gun hunter stats. So I just wanted to clear that up before anyone took that "twice as many" statement seriously. As relates to the discussions here that stat is irrelevant. Adding crossbows into bow season will have no positive effect on gun season participants. So we will continue to see gun hunter and overall hunting population slides.

 

I think that one issue that keeps this crossbow rift going is this idea that everywhere, there is an unlimited amount of hunting land and absolutely no reason for excess hunter density anywhere during bow season. If I hunted only land that was being way underutilized, or that I could simply keep other people off of by decree and with posted signs, I might have a different opinion on crossbows too.

 

In terms of crossbows adding to the overall hunter numbers, I'll believe that when I see it. Yes I think there will be a significant shift from gun hunter to crossbow hunters. And that's all it will be is a redistribution of season participants. If I am wrong about that, I will be happily surprised and freely admit that I was wrong. But unfortunately I believe I will be proven correct.

That is correct about bow hunters... but an increase in hunter numbers in any season does not necessarily equate to "excess" hunters. What is considered excess to some would not necessarily be excess to others. The guy who wants 100 acres of public land to himself might consider one more hunter in the woods excessive. I'm sure there are some public lands in NY that are small enough where added hunters could become an issue.. but for all the talk there is about increasing hunter numbers for the sake of deer population control and the future of hunting... there seems to be a lot of concern by some at the prospect of additional hunters in the woods. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

I don't see hunters giving up gun hunting for crossbows... I could see an increase in overall numbers before that... but like you, I won't believe any of it until I see it. I just think the crossbow will be a non-issue in years to come and fully accepted by bow hunters... much like the compound.

[Vince1]

I agree Doc. I don't see any NEW hunters starting just because crossbows are now legal. I can see many gun hunters taking advantage but new recruits will not happen. But I do really hope both of us are wrong and the numbers swell.

quote]

I got two friends wantin to try my wifes xbow when i get it.... NONE want anything to do with my recurve.

But its a rifle with arrow bullets in a city where gund are taboo.

Plus i think walkin dead is helpin it take off

[G-Man]

i like the way everyone here seems to forget, there is still a safety course to take for these crossbows. its not a buy one and go weapon for a gun hunter.. archery permit is still needed... honestly if a hunter want to use a crossbow and sit thru a long,long course(glad i did mine 25 plus years ago when they were short and sweet). i have confidence in our instructors to make sure these new hunters are safe and impart some moral hunting guidelines to them. yes there will be buffoons out there with them but there are with bow and gun now.

[nyantler]

Goin from an empty woods to possibly being crowded is a reason to bellyache. I wasnt standin arm and arm with xbowers but i wasnt against it. There is a benefit and a drawback. I always looked at em like they were rifles with less powere. And after lookin into em so my wife can be like darly (her words) i still feel the same.

But im just learnin

Crowded would be a reason to belly ache... but as of yet nobody knows if any of that will happen. There is way more public land in NY than there are people to hunt it if hunters get away from the roadways and into the woods.